FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => Non-FE Discussion Forum => Topic started by: blykins on June 25, 2019, 02:33:04 PM
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I went and tried to see what herniating a disc felt like. Just for the record, it doesn't feel good. MRI says I've got a 12mm protrusion on L5S1 that's riding on the S1 nerve root. I've got pain down my right hip and thigh.
Went to a chiro 6 times with no improvement so I decided to have him order an MRI.
Now I'm waiting to get into my fam doc this Thursday to see if he can give me some steroids or something to cut the inflammation down. Been calling around to see a neuro/ortho surgeon just in case and the quickest I can get in to see one is August 6th.
Go to church with a physical therapist and he gave me some exercises that were making me feel pretty good up until this morning. Got up this morning and was blindsided by the pain.
Any advice from docs here or any advice from guys who have had this? Ibuprofen and naproxen don't cut it. Heat feels better than ice. Been sleeping on my back with pillows under my knees.
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I went through this. L-3, 4, 5 and S1. I was hit by a drunk illegal on duty. It took three surgeries to get it right. If you want to talk about It I'll be glad to talk with you if you'd like to make sure you don't have to deal with what I did.
-Keith
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L5S1 here also. A steroid shot helped me a LOT the first time. The second time the shot didn't help at all, but oral steroids did help. I now have a standing prescription for prednisone to take for six days when my sciatica flares up. It started about ten years ago, and flares up about once or twice a year now. I investigated surgery very intently, but was scared away from it. There are many success stories with surgery, but look at long term stories, and you'll find that most of them aren't that good.
Lay on your back on the floor with your feet up on the couch to relieve the pressure on your lower back. It will help with the pain.
Good luck.
Dan
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Predinsone is dangerous. I was on it for a year and a half. I gained 65 lbs. It causes type 2 diabetes along with behavior changes. He has a large herniation. 12MM will have to be dealt with surgically.
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Just had surgery 4/23 that’s why I had to miss FE reunion! L4/5 disc cracked and rested on nerve root. When it happened the only way I can explain it would be a shorted wire that went from my spine through my ass check down my leg to my feet. Shooting burning pain, and to boot from the middle of my thigh to my ankle was numb. Had to be brought to the emergency room were they gave me a shot in my back for pain and to shut the nerve off or whatever it does. Was on workers comp so had to wait till paperwork went through but about 3-4 weeks later shot wore off and had to have emergency surgery to repair it. I also have L5s1 but couldn’t be done at this time cause of workers comp. The doctor I used was great. I’ve gotten back 50 percent of the feeling in my leg. The doctor said it could take a while for all of it to come back. He said approximately 2 weeks for each millameter that was damaged. I go back to work July 1st. If you have any questions PM me.
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I had pain in my back for as long as i can remember. just got
the runaround and painkillers by the doctors. Swedish healtcare
sucks big time. Finally when i become friend with a Austrian doctor
that moved to my village I got an MRI. He said that he have seen
a lot of patients with better backs i wheelchairs! :o Sounds comforting
What sometimes help me, I lay on my back and someone pulls my
leg and hold for a while, then realease slowly. And having the hardest
mattres there is in the bed. Putting one leg up on the kitchen bench
and lean forward over the leg. Almost impossible the first days due
to the pain. but if i do it 2-3 times a day i can stretch more each time
and the pain gets milder. Dont sit, stand or lay down on a hard suface
with suport under the knees
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Teeter Hangup. Start hanging at about a 45* angle 5min 3X a day and gradually increase angle and duration. I have 3 bulging discs. Hanging relieves pain & keeps me going. I also use ice a lot. Still do sports but can't stay bent over a fender to adj valves w/o a pillow on the fender to support me.
My son has had 3 surgeries and can not function without pain pills.
I'm no doctor and do not give medical advise, this is only my experiences.
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Just had surgery 4/23 that’s why I had to miss FE reunion! L4/5 disc cracked and rested on nerve root. When it happened the only way I can explain it would be a shorted wire that went from my spine through my ass check down my leg to my feet. Shooting burning pain, and to boot from the middle of my thigh to my ankle was numb. Had to be brought to the emergency room were they gave me a shot in my back for pain and to shut the nerve off or whatever it does. Was on workers comp so had to wait till paperwork went through but about 3-4 weeks later shot wore off and had to have emergency surgery to repair it. I also have L5s1 but couldn’t be done at this time cause of workers comp. The doctor I used was great. I’ve gotten back 50 percent of the feeling in my leg. The doctor said it could take a while for all of it to come back. He said approximately 2 weeks for each millameter that was damaged. I go back to work July 1st. If you have any questions PM me.
I hope it does. I can tell you from personal experience that is never is right again. The newer surgeries are much less invasive than they were and they don't have to through the muscle like they used to. I have a 9" scar.
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Try a lower back compression belt, good quality one, tight as you can stand, worn just above the hips.
Sleep with it even at first just not forever as your muscles will deteriorate.
If you are carrying heavy stuff, make sure it is not pressing against your stomach while walking or holding.
Train yourself to constantly watch your posture and body geometry for upright and straigt side to side, etc., will become second nature. Get yourself a nice pair of Merrell shoes.
This stuff would be good in combo with a shot to reduce irritating it for a while.
Not pretending to be a doctor, just my take on low risk options to try, have had good luck on quality braces on just about every joint to get through issues like this, sometimes had to buy 2 or 3 to find a good one taht fit me correctly.
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Herniated a disc about 12 years ago at 41yo. Cant remember which one, L sumthin, S sumthin. Half the problem is finding the right person to help. Do not give up on this. Remember, MD's will give pain killers, Chiros will want to manipulate, Physios will want to stretch, acupuncturist will want to needle etc....SURGEONS WILL WANT TO CUT. Its what they do. Cutting cannot be undone. Although you will want to have it done to gain instant relief, give it time. Last resort. If it is only bulging then you have the opportunity to repair. If it is herniated there is only management.
A good explanation to me went like this. Think of the disc as a grape. Put it between the fingers and give it a bit of a squeeze. It is now bulging , sometimes enough to impinge on a nerve but can be recovered if you remove the pressure. Now squash it. This is a herniated disc & is also impinging on the nerve. But there is no recovery if you remove the pressure. What happens is that over time that squished grape 'dries up' sultana like & shrinks away from the nerve. Until this happens painkillers can be your friend.....or your enemy. They don't do your insides any good and be prepared for withdrawal when you stop.
I saw a neuro surgeon and absolutely wanted him to go in and nibble that disc off the nerve. Then he explained that to get to it they cut away a section of vertebrae (yours might be different) and told me I was a bit young for this, did I want to wait. I said "give me another 3 months". In that time I managed to bring it under control and avoid surgery.
My treatment was as follows;
Painkillers (unavoidable to function)
Do nothing that compresses the spine & everything that can help it stretch, lightly. If you use an inverter don't go silly, slight angle only.
Walk. No hills though.
Find a good old school manipulative therapist that has been around the block. They can at least put everything else right to give you the best chance of improving. I went through a few before I found one that really helped.
I took 6 months to get off the painkillers and a further 6 months to get it to a manageable state. I still get nasty episodes a couple of times a year and I always feel it, always. There is only management but quality of life can return. Maybe not exactly the same but it can get a whole lot better. Don't loose hope. This shit can put you in some dark places. I know. I went there. Stay strong & accept that recovery may be long.
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Hi Brent, a few years ago I had the same thing you are going through what a bitch, like Me everything you do is heavy work, in my case I went to a friend that is a spine Dr he gave me a shot it did nothing to me, a friend lent me a inversion table it hurt like hell at first just ten degrees is all you need at first, if i was you I would try it, I went and got stem cells injected into my back two and a half months ago and it seems to be helping a lot but they tell you it takes about three months to work, the problem is insurance does no cover it, I feel for you it sucks. Leny Mason
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Spent 15 yrs going to Chiro just to be able to turn my head. Couldn't get in a small car(can't bend in the middle), sleeping was futile(couldn't get out of the bed), sitting in chair was useless. Chiro helped, no surgery. I bought a Teeter a few years ago and haven't been back to Chiro. Get flare ups a few times a years if I do something stupid. Right side messed up currently, dealing with it.
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A lot of good advice here. It is a good example of how the same kind of injury in the same spot has different results for different people. Some have scar tissue that will grow and cause pain. The most interesting thing I have learned is that you get used to extreme pain. In some cases a broken toe simply feels like an extension of the regular foot pain. I had to find a balance between the pain and pain killers to accomplish simple jobs around the house. The pain can cloud your thinking the same as pain killers. Takes a balance of humility and swallowing some pride. I am still learning.
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My Mother had back problems before I was born. Watched her live with them until I was an adult. She was involved in car accidents twice in mid-later life.
The first time, she was driving a Town Car South on I-75 in Florida. An 18-wheeler lost a tire and rim while going North and it jumped the median and hit her square in the grill. Stopped the car dead and shortened it by close to 3 feet. A bit higher and it would have come through the windshield. All the damage to her body was caused by the seat belts and impact with this and that. She was very lucky.
The second time, in another Town Car, she was riding with my Dad and they were rear-ended. Again bruising and a degree of whiplash.
She took about two years looking for the right Surgeon; finally deciding on a practice in which there was a different doctor for each vertebra. Two small incisions and whatever they had to do once they got inside. She was pain-free, although fragile, for the rest of her life.
I'm told that they now do the same sort of surgery with lasers.
I'd surely look into it.
KS
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Brent, my only advice is to take your time until you are satisfied that you have a good doctor and good advice. Don't hesitate to get a 2nd or 3rd, or even a 4th opinion. I know that is hard when you are in pain and want to work.
I have broken my spine 3 different times on 4 different vertebrae. My vertebrae were crushed. I don't know about herniated discs. Anyway, last time I broke it, the doc wanted to operate. They were going to put balloons in my vertebrae and pump them up, back into shape, then inject cement into them. I said no. I am leery of anyone doing things near my spinal cord. I also thought, how is the bone supposed to heal if there is permanent cement in there? For me it was a good call. I am almost two inches shorter, but I am okay and functional. My vertebrae are still crushed, but at least the bone has healed. Sometimes when I bend down to tie my shoes, the crushed vertebrae will slide across each other and I will cry out. Not too bad.
Just saying be careful. Your back is to your body like the frame is to a car. I hope you get a good resolution. Please let us know how it turns out.
paulie
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I finally saw my family doc this past Thursday. I practically did everything but beg for a steroid pack, but he wouldn't relent. Told me to double up for a little bit on my Aleve/Tylenol and I must say, when it does kick in, it's a nice relief. Yesterday, my family and I went to dinner and I squirmed around trying to get comfortable in the car the whole way. I had taken my medicine before we left and it seemed like halfway through the meal the pain stopped and it stayed away the rest of the evening.
Mornings are horrible. I sleep like a baby but as soon as my feet hit the floor, I can't stand it. It eventually eases up.
I start PT tomorrow. I have been noticing progress in exercises that I've been doing at home so far, so I'm hopeful with that.
I also bought an inversion table due to the advice of some of my FE buddies that have called and recommended it. I was able to put it together yesterday and got some "seat time" yesterday.
I can't imagine how it will go if I don't get some kind of resolution to this. I had to have a church buddy come over Friday to help drop an FE crank in a block and set a cast iron head on so I could check P/V clearance. It's a hassle. If that's the way it will be from here on out, then I will resolve myself to an engineering job or selling parts. I have a lengthy docket right now, but I could see myself not taking any more engine orders.
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I think there will be an acceptable resolution. I am not a doc, but I think worst case scenario is they remove the disc and fuse those two vertebrae together? You lose some flexibility, but it works. My ex-father in law did that and he still works on his farm. He is in his late 60's.
paulie
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Even a surgery would set me back considerably.
The surgical solution for this is a laminectomy or a micro discectomy, which is essentially a laparoscopic surgery to just trim the herniation so it doesn’t hit the nerve root. It’s a quick surgery and you’re back home the next day but from what I read you can’t do any strenuous lifting for up to 6 months. Not really an option for an engine builder.
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Oh shoot.
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Brent I had a Discectomy and I could lay a crank in and I’m 2.5 months and if I was careful and tool my time and payed attention to how I lift things probably could have layed one in a couple of weeks ago. And I think your like 5-10 years younger than me which could help with quicker healing. And mine wasn’t arthroscopic I have a 2.5 inch scar there was some cleaning up that he did also.
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The new Teeters are nicer. Mine being a few years old has the old style pull handle down at your feet to release your feet. Bad idea. Impossible to bent down to reach it. New design has long lever. I've thought of doing some engineering on mine, but I can just reach to get myself unlocked. Barely.
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Can't say whether all the advice here will get you there or not but I would say find a new doctor.
You are the customer, steroids are known to have a fairly high short term success rate and give your body a chance to start healing without all the pain. Gotta love generic "protocol" applied doctoring to cover themselves legally. His real answer if challenged hard would probably be that there is risk of making it worse if you start lifting too soon due to reduced pain from steroid, not a bad answer but that's your decision to make not his. Good luck.
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Sometimes there's something in the daily routine that gets the back out of whack or slows down healing of an injury. Doctors couldn't seem to help my dad's lower back...even with steroids. He finally figured out he needed to put his feet up in his easy chair when watching ball games. For me, I need something under my waist while sleeping face down. Guess what I'm saying is to check the simple, stupid things that are done daily.
Proper breathing and mental relaxation exercises work amazing wonders for injuries like this. Admittedly, it's not easy to explain or understand and it takes a while (years in my case) of practice.
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Truth to that. Driving, I tend to be "tense" because of bad roads and the jerking it does to my back. I tense up and then my back muscles get achy to boot. I have to tell myself to "relax" and just sit comfortably in the seat. One bad bump and I'm back to tense.
Riding the lawn tractor is a real trick on my bumpy lawn.
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Truth to that. Driving, I tend to be "tense" because of bad roads and the jerking it does to my back. I tense up and then my back muscles get achy to boot. I have to tell myself to "relax" and just sit comfortably in the seat. One bad bump and I'm back to tense.
Riding the lawn tractor is a real trick on my bumpy lawn.
Yep, that's what I'm trying to get at. Not trying to over simplify Brent's dilemma though I've found pain often feeds the tension and tension feeds the pain. Really tough to relax when the back is kinked to heck...takes lots of practice and a little coaching.
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I am late to the game due to being out of town, but I have dealt with the similar situation on my C5/C6 in my neck. PT helps a lot IF you get a good therapist, do the exercises consistently. Adding strength and muscle will help a great deal but sadly you have to be beyond healed before that can be approached safely. PT should give you some guidance on "how" to sleep....assuming you can. The pain is bad enough sleep usually doesn't happen...but certain ways will not cause as much pain...the problem is tossing and turning in your sleep. Also, it sounds silly but they now sell these "shocking pads" in the pharmacy section. Get one. They help. Not sure as to the entire prognosis but many times the muscles spasm into a semi-permanent position and keep the vertebrate pulled out of whack. The shock therapy can help reset the muscle and break its memory and help things go back in place.
Sorry to hear this. Unless someone has experienced it, they don't understand how bad certain nerve pain can be. Don't throw in the towel or put the cart before the horse just yet. The pain and exhaustion from lack of rest due to said pain can wear on you fast....give it time, try to do what PT tells you, keep it up, and try the options. You may be surprised at the outcome. Best wishes Brent.
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You can do a search on youtube for "Bio Beats for pain management or relief". I won't even try to explain it other than to say it worked for me and the price was right. Plug in your head phones and try to get comfortable. My wife has turned me into a believer. Have you thought about acupuncture??
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Yoga
Pilates
Physical therapy
And all the above with a knowledgeable and experienced instructor. That's the only reason I'm walking today. Blew my back out twice before I was 25 so bad I couldn't walk for a week plus. Disc issues, the works. Then rolled a 71 bronco and was ejected, fractured my three lower vertebrae and broke my pelvis in three places. I would never think of surgery until I had exhausted every other resource available. Every one I know who has had surgery doesn't have a surgery, they have multiple and are typically worse off than when they started.
Jack
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Brent,
I sent you a private message. If you have any questions feel free to call. I'm sure you're overwhelmed as your options are frightening as all hell. There are success stories out there and we are residing in the best time in history for medical intervention. Best of luck and again, feel free to call. I have a few books I can forward you, or their titles, that you might appreciate if you like to understand what your options are - let me know.
Travis