FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: amdscooter on November 09, 2012, 04:23:08 PM
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Looking for a lil help here. My 390 from this thread http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=578.0 (http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=578.0) is finally back together and old timing issues are coming back to haunt me. Relevant specs:
390 Fe .030 over bottom end stock.
fresh heads hardened exh seats.
Comp 268H cam and matched springs
Holley 625 carb
Edelbrock streetmaster intake
FPA headers w/Magnaflow 2.5" exh.
I'm using a re-manufactured Cardone distributor with a vac cannister and have replaced the points with a Petronix FF2 setup. Then options on my reluctor arm for total mechanical advance are 14L and 18L. With the reluctor set on 14L I need to keep my initial timing at 8 degrees or under to stay under 36 total mechanical advance. My new build hates 8 degrees initial and really likes closer to 15 degrees initial much better. But that amount of initial blows my total mechanical advance budget to hell and back. I've looked high and low for a stock 8L~10L reluctor arm.. no dice. I'm beginning to believe they really do not exist. ::) I'd really like to avoid taking the breaker plate out and having the slots welded and ground to reduce total advance as it's money I'd rather not dump into this particular distributor if at all possible. I've tried putting some rubber hose over the pin to restrict total mechanical with limited success.. it's kinda wonky and not at all consistent. Sooo.. Is there a distributor on the market that has a wide range of reluctor plates readily available? I would not mind putting a HEI in to be honest and this would be as good as an excuse as any to get one. Any better options and opinions welcome.
thanks
scott
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MSD FE ready to run:
http://www.msdignition.com/Products/Distributors/Ford/Ready-to-Run/E-Curve/8595_-_Ford_FE_Ready-to-Run_Distributor.aspx
18-28 degrees of mechanical advance are available. See:
http://www.msdignition.com/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=15032386373
page 4, advance stop bushings.
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Instead of rubber tubing you can try heat shrink tubing. You need to build it up in layers, in other words put a piece on, shrink it, put another piece over it, shrink it. Keep repeating. You'll need various sizes of the tubing as it gets thicker. It will be more firm than the rubber tubing and easier to build up to the amount of limit you need.
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MSD 8595 ...
I like mine alot... very nice. It comes with a recurve kit to set it anyway you like. It also has a built in rev limiter. No box needed ect ..
The problem, Lots of $$ and you will need plug wires to boot...
No way I would go HEI .... Thats GM voodoo >:(
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MSD looks like a great setup.. just beyond my budget at this point. That's why I was looking at the HEI.. they run about $150 with plug wires but I have not been able to find any information on how the total advance is adjusted (if at all) on them.
thatdarncat: thanks for the suggestion but if at all possible I'd like to be done trying to add width to the post.
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amd I guess if money is tight,your going to need to figure out how to limmit advance on your dizzy.. cant be that hard ::)
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I limit mine by silver soldering a (crude) bent piece of metal that I hook around the end of the slot. I would work on the 18 degree side, measure the difference between the 18 and 14 degree slot to determine how much travel equals 4 degrees and then position the piece of metal where it will get you where you want to be. I never had any luck with sleeving the post either.
You can also usually find a used Mallory Unilite for not too much money and they are adjustable for total advance.
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Probably the cheapest way is to weld it.
You must have access to a mig or buzz box.
It's just a small tack and file job.
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Probably the cheapest way is to weld it.
You must have access to a mig or buzz box.
It's just a small tack and file job.
Mig/buzz box "access" to me = a trip to my local $75 guy. Meaning the local machining and welding guy up the street who seems to charge me $75 no matter what the job. ;D
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If no welder available then JBWeld a chunk of metal on that slot. As long as surface is clean and roughed up it will hold exceptionally well
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amdscooter,
I'm getting ready to put the same combination together that you've got except this is a 410ci FE. Can I ask you what vacuum you are pulling at 14 degrees initial timing on that setup with the 268H cam and what rpm. Also, is there very much lope.
As far as welding the mechanical advance, that's easier than you think. I do it every time I change the timing very much. Takes about 30 minutes to take it out, weld it, grind and file it and use measurements they give for advance you want. And, the measurements are right on. Jim
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amdscooter,
I'm getting ready to put the same combination together that you've got except this is a 410ci FE. Can I ask you what vacuum you are pulling at 14 degrees initial timing on that setup with the 268H cam and what rpm. Also, is there very much lope.
As far as welding the mechanical advance, that's easier than you think. I do it every time I change the timing very much. Takes about 30 minutes to take it out, weld it, grind and file it and use measurements they give for advance you want. And, the measurements are right on. Jim
Hi Jim, I'll get those readings for you tomorrow if I can locate my VAC gauge. Just re-sealed the passenger side valve cover and I'm going to let the goo cure overnight. As for lope.. there is barely any. With the headers and Magnaflow's it simply has a nice throaty rumble idling between 800~1k rpm. I'll post up a video if it's running tomorrow and not raining.
As for the mech. advance, thanks for the advise. I'm going to have a buddy over this week to get a second set of eyes on the tune. I might be missing something simple here and I wanna make sure before I tear into the distributor again.
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I wrote a post on a thread called "rotor phasing video". This is my prefered way to adjust mechanical range in a Ford distributor. Here is the link to the thread:
http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=308.msg2283#msg2283
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I wrote a post on a thread called "rotor phasing video". This is my prefered way to adjust mechanical range in a Ford distributor. Here is the link to the thread:
http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=308.msg2283#msg2283
Interesting post. With a link of chain keeping the spring from stretching, how do you get any advance at all? I must be missing something.. ???
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Hey Jim.. here is that video. 15 degrees initial at bout 900rpm.
http://youtu.be/olhXxOS43lw (http://youtu.be/olhXxOS43lw)
Could not locate my vaccum gauge. I'll get that info for you as soon as I find it.
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The post that holds the heavy spring with the chain link is bent inwards a little bit so the sping will have some play. It just acts to limit the advance once it makes contact. The other spring, the lighter spring is what controls the advance.
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amdscooter,
Thank you so much for that video. Nive looking car you put it in. I think you've got to have all kinds of vacuum with that cam. I believe that engine would idle smooth at 600 rpm and the exhaust noise is fine. Thank you again for sharing that video. Jim
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FirstEliminator: Thanks for the info.. looked like a solid link in the photo. Now I get it. ;)
JimNolan: Hi Jim! I drove it around a lil today while I was making some other adjustments and vacuum for the power brakes was not an issue at all. Also, I have let is idle as low as 600rpm and it seemed to handle it just fine albeit with a bit more lope at the lower rpm. I usually keep it between 800~1000rpm in park. Toss it in gear and it drops a hair. Planning on putting the factory AC back in as well so 800~1k idle is where I'm keeping it.
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Alrighty then... need more advise. I was able to locate and install a 13L reluctor that allows me to set initial timing at 8~10 degrees initial which I think should be fine with this build for now. I got it installed and the setup seems to keep total advance right at my 36 degree target. Problem is I'm not seeing or feeling the "power/torque" increases I thought I'd be seeing with the new intake, cam, headers, etc.. Even before the rebuild and with the old motor mount split in two if I mashed the pedal I did not have any problems getting that 14 inch stock tire spinning. With the new build it's feeling flat. I mash the pedal and it goes.. but it's lacking. Not a chirp from the rubber at all. Was talking to a buddy and he thought I might be carburetor limited with only a 625cfm. Anyone else think that could be the issue.. or should I be looking elsewhere?
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amdscooter,
Put a timing light on it and suck on the vacuum advance tube on you distributor and see if it's advancing. On my 63 I had the timing advanced to 17 degrees initial so I could idle at 600 rpm and thought the engine ran really good. A few weeks later I was admiring the pictures of my engine bay and noticed a rubber hose just laying on my intake. The car ran fine and I didn't even have the advance hooked up. Ran better afterwards and I was able to reduce my timing to 15 degrees. Also make sure that the set screw is turned clockwise all the way on the vacuum advance canister. ( you can set that after you get it running). These things may not help you but if you've got less power now than before you put the cam and intake on it, I''m in trouble also. Jim
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Weak off idle acceleration won't be the size of the carb, but it might be carb tuning. Or, your modifications may have shifted the torque curve up to the point where you need a different converter or deeper gears. Or, it could be some other issue. I'd suggest you start a new thread, either in the Member Projects section or in the technical section, provide all the details on the car and drivetrain, and describe the problem there. That will help you narrow down to a short list of potential problems.
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Is the carb opening all the way?
And are you getting a good shot from the pump?
It's in the carb.
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I would be sure your carb is opening all the way first, then check the secondary. Is it a vac secondary? also do a manifold vac test.
what do you have for jetting ?
most of the time lazy is a rich condition. but you will need to eliminate the things above first.
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I would be sure your carb is opening all the way first, then check the secondary. Is it a vac secondary? also do a manifold vac test.
what do you have for jetting ?
most of the time lazy is a rich condition. but you will need to eliminate the things above first.
It is a vac secondary... added suggestions to the list. jetting is stock/whatever it came outta the box with. I'll look up the specs later. Still looking for my vaccum gauge. :-\
Thanks!