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FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: e philpott on September 25, 2012, 10:17:05 PM

Title: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: e philpott on September 25, 2012, 10:17:05 PM
on available aftermarket blocks , what are the pro's and con's on cast iron verses aluminum block on a 482 pump gas high performance street engines ??... ( assuming the Genisis iron block is still available and the only game in town )

..... and whats the big difference in the available aluminum blocks between brands ??

... and what is the weight difference between aluminum and iron blocks ??
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: ScotiaFE on September 25, 2012, 11:41:41 PM
An iron Genesis weighs about 250 lbs.
An aluminum Pond weighs in at a slight 120 lbs.
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: fetorino on September 26, 2012, 12:20:30 AM
For a pump gas motor there really is no reason to run a Shelby over a Pond.

The Shelby has some dual cross bolts and some longer length head studs That could benefit you if you were really pushing the envelope.  The Shelby also cost more and doesn't look like an original Ford Sideoiler.  I believe it also weighs a little more than the Pond Block.

Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: Drew Pojedinec on September 26, 2012, 08:44:54 AM
If I were to buy one (ohh yes, and someday, it will happen...)
I'd go with the Genesis Iron.  I'd spend the extra cash on better heads, and would enjoy the larger bore capabilities/thicker walls.

For someone like Jay or a racer that rebuilds the engine frequently, I can see the aluminum making sense due to the ability to resleeve the block with ease.
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: e philpott on September 26, 2012, 08:47:55 AM
is there a big difference in the maching cost between all the different blocks ? ... or is one more cost effective than the other ??... or small beans and doesn't matter ??
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: jayb on September 26, 2012, 12:47:48 PM
One thing about aluminum blocks is that they tend to "move around" somewhat with use.  So, if you run them, then take them apart to bore or change to a different crank or something, you will end up having to align hone the block.  Cast iron blocks will not have this problem.  Also, every aluminum block I've ever purchased has needed an align hone from the start, despite what the manufacturer may way about the block being ready to run. 

I like them because you can re-sleeve them easily if something goes wrong or you want to reduce the bore size rather than increase it, and also because they save over 100 pounds compared to an iron block.  Also, they can be fixed much more easily than an iron block if something catastrophic happens.  But there's nothing wrong with going cast iron, IMO...
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: e philpott on September 26, 2012, 05:51:48 PM
has anybody seen a Pond iron block ??.... they show it on his web site ..... curiuos how it compares to the Genesis
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: jayb on September 26, 2012, 07:13:50 PM
I've got a Pond cast iron block, and I like it - very beefy, and really good caps.  I've never owned a Genesis cast iron block, so I can't really compare them side by side, but I would buy another Pond block if I was in the market for a cast iron one.
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: e philpott on September 26, 2012, 08:22:59 PM
is the iron block priced the same as his aluminum ??
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: jayb on September 26, 2012, 10:32:39 PM
I think I paid about $1000 less for the cast iron, around $3700 maybe?  You'd have to contact Robert to be sure.
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: 4twennyAint on November 28, 2012, 10:08:35 PM
Is there any reason a Pond aluminum block should not be used for the street?  Thinking about it with a stroker kit, worked EDLBRK heads, hyd roller, and keep my C6 and 3.70 gear.

Thanks
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: jayb on November 28, 2012, 10:11:08 PM
I've run my Pond aluminum block for thousands of street miles with no problems.  No reason you can't run it on the street, IMO.
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: hotrodfeguy on November 29, 2012, 07:32:03 PM
Is there any reason a Pond aluminum block should not be used for the street?  Thinking about it with a stroker kit, worked EDLBRK heads, hyd roller, and keep my C6 and 3.70 gear.

Thanks

I think the new heads that Survival is worth checking into. I think Joe crane has them working over 300 CFM with CJ calves, and is about ready to open up to the larger valve size. My guess is thats where they will really show some colors. I think thats something I would look into before going the ED head route from scratch.
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: philminotti on November 29, 2012, 09:12:51 PM
From my experience, sample size of 1, the aluminum blocks do have a couple of things to be aware of.  Keep in mind that the bolt holes are NOT helicoiled...beware.   I had to redrill and tap one of the holes on the oil filter pad due to overagressive tightening on my part.  Again, my fault.  My aluminum E-brock heads were perfectly flat and my deck was well prepped but I had massive coolant leaks with Felpro 1020 gaskets.  The sleeves were not overly proud, so I can't really explain it.  I went to town with steel wool on the 1020's and put an entire can of Copperkote on the MF'ers.  No leaks at all since. 

The block is super cool though.  I love it.

phil
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: BH107 on December 03, 2012, 10:07:42 PM
From what I'm told there isn't alot of options right now. Genesis is currently not in business, and Pond does not currently have cast iron blocks in stock. If you need something now its either Pond or Shelby aluminum, or find a good OEM block.
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: ScotiaFE on December 08, 2012, 01:33:30 PM
Is the Pond block drilled for the rear relief valve as in the stock type 427 SO?

Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: DEANs427 on December 09, 2012, 07:33:39 PM
my pond block is not drilled for block oil pressure relief
however, it is drilled for hydraulic lifter oiling where my original FoMoCo block is not.

,
Is the Pond block drilled for the rear relief valve as in the stock type 427 SO?
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: 4twennyAint on December 10, 2012, 10:05:08 PM
I've found a 427 center oiler block, standard bore.  The guy is saying make an offer but I don't know what a fair price is.  Any suggestions? 

I think I'd rather have the 427 than my CJ block for a stroker foundation - any comments or considerations (other than the lack of hyd oiling on the 427)? 

Thanks
 
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: DEANs427 on December 11, 2012, 11:18:56 AM
I've found a 427 center oiler block, standard bore.  The guy is saying make an offer but I don't know what a fair price is.  Any suggestions? 

I think I'd rather have the 427 than my CJ block for a stroker foundation - any comments or considerations (other than the lack of hyd oiling on the 427)? 

Thanks
 
There is no comparison unless you plan on upgrading the CJ to cross bolted lower end, also sonic check your cj cylinder walls
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: jayb on December 11, 2012, 01:21:17 PM
I've found a 427 center oiler block, standard bore.  The guy is saying make an offer but I don't know what a fair price is.  Any suggestions? 

I think I'd rather have the 427 than my CJ block for a stroker foundation - any comments or considerations (other than the lack of hyd oiling on the 427)? 

Thanks

When Blair P was up at my place he bought one from a friend of mine.  I think he paid $3000, but the block was really, really nice.  They are getting hard to find...
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: BH107 on December 11, 2012, 07:40:42 PM
I've found a 427 center oiler block, standard bore.  The guy is saying make an offer but I don't know what a fair price is.  Any suggestions? 

I think I'd rather have the 427 than my CJ block for a stroker foundation - any comments or considerations (other than the lack of hyd oiling on the 427)? 

Thanks

Standard bore makes it worth more, but I've seen CO blocks go for $1200-$1500 on ebay, and not blown up ones either.

Side oilers can be more expensive, and an NOS service block just sold on ebay for $8700. I sold a NOS block that had a little pitting in a few cylinders, NOS $teel crank, and NOS Le Mans rods for $7200 2 weeks ago.
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: ScotiaFE on December 11, 2012, 09:15:15 PM
YIKES!
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: RoyceP on December 15, 2012, 11:42:15 AM
My Genesis block weighed 230 pounds on the calibrated scale at Forward Air.
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: 4twennyAint on January 10, 2013, 10:01:45 PM
 ;D

It took forever but GOT IT!!   Standard bore 427 center-oiler block...$2,000 if it checks out as good as claimed. 

 ;D
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: ScotiaFE on January 14, 2013, 11:40:37 PM
;D

It took forever but GOT IT!!   Standard bore 427 center-oiler block...$2,000 if it checks out as good as claimed. 

 ;D
Great Stuff!
I'm still looking for a reasonable stock block. LOL
They are very rare in my hood.
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: ScotiaFE on January 14, 2013, 11:59:15 PM
My Genesis block weighed 230 pounds on the calibrated scale at Forward Air.
I was talking with Tom P about the blocks one day and he said he weighed his and it came in at around 250lbs?
I have never weighed mine, and I guess I could put it on a bathroom scale. lol
I know that the blocks changed some over the years.
The early ones had smaller caps so the caps would have gotten heavier at least.
Mine is a very late casting with the heavy caps.
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: Heo on January 15, 2013, 10:23:30 AM
;D

It took forever but GOT IT!!   Standard bore 427 center-oiler block...$2,000 if it checks out as good as claimed. 

 ;D
Great Stuff!
I'm still looking for a reasonable stock block. LOL
They are very rare in my hood.
Then try to find a 427 block in Sweden ::)
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: fe66comet on January 15, 2013, 10:28:08 AM
Genesis folded? That stinks. When I started looking for parts for my build I found a guy that was doing 428 recast blocks but can't remember who?
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: ScotiaFE on January 15, 2013, 10:45:53 AM
Genesis folded? That stinks. When I started looking for parts for my build I found a guy that was doing 428 recast blocks but can't remember who?
I'm not sure they folded. The webb site is still up so someones paying the bill.
We can only hope that it is just in transition. The tooling is there.
It would be a shame to see this block become extinict.

"428 recast blocks" I've never heard of this before.
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: Chad D on January 15, 2013, 11:10:32 AM
Urinary Olympics or so I hear betwixt the owners.  Hopefully time will sort things out in a beneficial manner.
Title: Re: aftermarket blocks .... cast iron...vs... aluminum
Post by: fe66comet on January 15, 2013, 11:11:52 AM
Might have been 427s but had full oiling. I kinda put it out of my mind as I cannot afford such a block anyhow.