FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: hwoods on April 25, 2018, 07:53:08 AM
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I will be running a roller cam I got from Barry R. Pertronix Distributor. Most Bronze gears say not for extended street use. I can't find where anyone makes a composite distributor gear for the FE Engine. Anybody know someone that does make a composite gear?
Thanks
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I'd stay away form Composite gears. If you get a good quality bronze gear it should last a LONG time. Or, depending on your cam core you might be able to go Melonite gear. You might call these guys: http://distributorgears.com/
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Run a steel gear with that camshaft. Crane or Mallory/MSD has plenty of gears to choose from depending on the shaft size.
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Run a steel gear with that camshaft. Crane or Mallory/MSD has plenty of gears to choose from depending on the shaft size.
MSD gears are junk. Made in China. MANY problems with them.
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I haven't had any problems at all with them, but I use more of the Crane stuff than the others.
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I've got several thousand miles on a pertronix distributor and crane steel gear. No complaints or issues.
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Thanks, ordering Crane Steel gear
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I haven't had any problems at all with them, but I use more of the Crane stuff than the others.
FWIW - you'll recall I just lost a $400 solid roller cam to a Mallory steel gear.
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Having blown through a bronze gear (my fault and street) I’m a little more than casually interested in this topic.
Didn’t know there were the other choices in gear suppliers, thanks.
BTW here is a melonite process link because I can’t be the only one that had no idea what it was. If I keep hangin’ around here there’s no tellin’ what I might learn. ;)
https://www.ibccoatings.com/melonite-qpq
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There's really not that much to it.
A cast cam gets a cast gear.
A billet steel core cam gets a steel gear.
The others won't last well at all.
Most of the issues that guys have with gears that *should* work is that the gears are not positioned correctly on the shaft. There is a spec for it and if it's not held, you will get gear wear. You can't just pull a gear off, put a new gear on and line the holes back up. It doesn't work like that.
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I haven't had any problems at all with them, but I use more of the Crane stuff than the others.
FWIW - you'll recall I just lost a $400 solid roller cam to a Mallory steel gear.
Not sure what happened there with that one, but I have never lost a steel or cast iron distributor gear. Ever.
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I haven't had any problems at all with them, but I use more of the Crane stuff than the others.
The largest engine re-manufacturer in North America (ATK) removes and replaces every MSD distributor gear they get. MSD used to use a US manufacturer for their gears @ ~24.00 ea. till they found out they can get them for ~2.00 ea. from China. The Crane (which is Comp) I'm sure, is also an offshore gear.
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Having blown through a bronze gear (my fault and street) I’m a little more than casually interested in this topic.
Didn’t know there were the other choices in gear suppliers, thanks.
BTW here is a melonite process link because I can’t be the only one that had no idea what it was. If I keep hangin’ around here there’s no tellin’ what I might learn. ;)
https://www.ibccoatings.com/melonite-qpq
I didn't know it was used on cam gears, but seems like a good idea. Melonite is a very effective coating for gun mechanisms that are prone to areas of high wear and corrosion. My apologies if I've caused a red flag to the FBI, CIA or NSA for mentioning "gun" 8)
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I haven't had any problems at all with them, but I use more of the Crane stuff than the others.
The largest engine re-manufacturer in North America (ATK) removes and replaces every MSD distributor gear they get. MSD used to use a US manufacturer for their gears @ ~24.00 ea. till they found out they can get them for ~2.00 ea. from China. The Crane (which is Comp) I'm sure, is also an offshore gear.
That's all fine and good, but still doesn't change my experiences.
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I haven't had any problems at all with them, but I use more of the Crane stuff than the others.
The largest engine re-manufacturer in North America (ATK) removes and replaces every MSD distributor gear they get. MSD used to use a US manufacturer for their gears @ ~24.00 ea. till they found out they can get them for ~2.00 ea. from China. The Crane (which is Comp) I'm sure, is also an offshore gear.
That's all fine and good, but still doesn't change my experiences.
LOL...OK, whatever. I'm just trying to share useful information for others. Do with it as you please.
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Having blown through a bronze gear (my fault and street) I’m a little more than casually interested in this topic.
Didn’t know there were the other choices in gear suppliers, thanks.
BTW here is a melonite process link because I can’t be the only one that had no idea what it was. If I keep hangin’ around here there’s no tellin’ what I might learn. ;)
https://www.ibccoatings.com/melonite-qpq
I didn't know it was used on cam gears, but seems like a good idea. Melonite is a very effective coating for gun mechanisms that are prone to areas of high wear and corrosion. My apologies if I've caused a red flag to the FBI, CIA or NSA for mentioning "gun" 8)
Melonite isn't really a coating, it's a thermochemical process called salt bath nitrocarburizing. More of a heat treat.
"QPQ" basically stands for Quench Polish Quench...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferritic_nitrocarburizing#Salt_bath_ferritic_nitrocarburizing
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I haven't had any problems at all with them, but I use more of the Crane stuff than the others.
The largest engine re-manufacturer in North America (ATK) removes and replaces every MSD distributor gear they get. MSD used to use a US manufacturer for their gears @ ~24.00 ea. till they found out they can get them for ~2.00 ea. from China. The Crane (which is Comp) I'm sure, is also an offshore gear.
That's all fine and good, but still doesn't change my experiences.
LOL...OK, whatever. I'm just trying to share useful information for others. Do with it as you please.
I haven't built thousands of engines, but I literally have had ZERO steel distributor gear failures, from Crane/Comp/Mallory/MSD. That includes engines I have built and swapped gears on and all the gears/cams I have sent out over the years.
Not sure what the difference is. :o
Only times I have heard/seen issues is when guys run iron dist gears on steel cams (or vice versa) or have tried to push their luck with bronze or polymer gears.....or have installed gears incorrectly.
I had another engine builder (who really should have known better, because he specializes in Fords) send me a distributor to use with an engine and he had changed the gear on it. I assumed that it was done correctly and didn't check it. I clocked the balancer, stabbed the distributor in, locked it down and took it to the dyno.
When we fired the engine, it spun the distributor......
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Having blown through a bronze gear (my fault and street) I’m a little more than casually interested in this topic.
Didn’t know there were the other choices in gear suppliers, thanks.
BTW here is a melonite process link because I can’t be the only one that had no idea what it was. If I keep hangin’ around here there’s no tellin’ what I might learn. ;)
https://www.ibccoatings.com/melonite-qpq
I didn't know it was used on cam gears, but seems like a good idea. Melonite is a very effective coating for gun mechanisms that are prone to areas of high wear and corrosion. My apologies if I've caused a red flag to the FBI, CIA or NSA for mentioning "gun" 8)
Melonite isn't really a coating, it's a thermochemical process called salt bath nitrocarburizing. More of a heat treat.
"QPQ" basically stands for Quench Polish Quench...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferritic_nitrocarburizing#Salt_bath_ferritic_nitrocarburizing
Yes, I read the article. My sincerest apologies for using the wrong terminology.
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Having blown through a bronze gear (my fault and street) I’m a little more than casually interested in this topic.
Didn’t know there were the other choices in gear suppliers, thanks.
BTW here is a melonite process link because I can’t be the only one that had no idea what it was. If I keep hangin’ around here there’s no tellin’ what I might learn. ;)
https://www.ibccoatings.com/melonite-qpq
I didn't know it was used on cam gears, but seems like a good idea. Melonite is a very effective coating for gun mechanisms that are prone to areas of high wear and corrosion. My apologies if I've caused a red flag to the FBI, CIA or NSA for mentioning "gun" 8)
Melonite isn't really a coating, it's a thermochemical process called salt bath nitrocarburizing. More of a heat treat.
"QPQ" basically stands for Quench Polish Quench...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferritic_nitrocarburizing#Salt_bath_ferritic_nitrocarburizing
Yes, I read the article. My sincerest apologies for using the wrong terminology.
Stall converter.
8)
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I haven't had any problems at all with them, but I use more of the Crane stuff than the others.
The largest engine re-manufacturer in North America (ATK) removes and replaces every MSD distributor gear they get. MSD used to use a US manufacturer for their gears @ ~24.00 ea. till they found out they can get them for ~2.00 ea. from China. The Crane (which is Comp) I'm sure, is also an offshore gear.
That's all fine and good, but still doesn't change my experiences.
LOL...OK, whatever. I'm just trying to share useful information for others. Do with it as you please.
Not sure what the difference is. :o
The difference is, YOU are not a consensus for everyone. You don't even register on the radar.
The difference is, this change has taken place only in the last few years. Before that, like I said, MSD used US made, high quality gears.
The difference is, this isn't about YOU... ::)
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For crying out loud dude.
Go take a Valium.
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I should qualify my earlier remarks - I used a MSD steel gear on an MSD Billet distributor, installed per their distance specification: 3.996-4.005. It got ate up along with the cam gear and the motor was full of steel filings. I will be running bronze this time around and the gear is installed per the Ford Motorsports specification: 4.031-4.038. This time I set the gear at a number, blued the bottom of the gear, installed the dist., shoved the shaft down hard and rotated the motor by hand to get a contact reading. When I got a consistent contact pattern I pinned the gear. 4.032 was the number on this block. I have a lot of mechanical inspection tools and used to be a front line mechanical inspector and later a QA program manager, so I'm pretty decent at getting a reading using calipers or a surface plate and height gauge. This is in a drag only application. I don't mind bronze - on the motors here I have to pull the distributor for an oil change so it gets looked at periodically anyway.
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I have a crane roller cam and when I talked to crane they asked which oil pump I was using. Since I am using a high volume oil pump they said they only recommend bronze. I asked them about composite and steel and they said use bronze.
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The difference in the MSD spec and the Ford spec is how you have the endplay. MSD spec requires you push the gear towards the cap.
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I have a crane roller cam and when I talked to crane they asked which oil pump I was using. Since I am using a high volume oil pump they said they only recommend bronze. I asked them about composite and steel and they said use bronze.
The bronze just won't last long. I've never had an issue with steel gears, high volume or no.
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Any idea as to why? Long ago, I did get a gear (forget now if ti was a BBC or SBF) that looked odd. Took a good look at the old one and it seemed the O.D. edge of each gear was quite wide.. Tried to just hand hold it into the cam's gear and it would
only engage not quite 1/2 way in! Don't know how they screwed it up. Maybe it was boxed wrong but....
Did you gear end up sharp-edged (filings) or just worn down (mainly dust) on the whole O/D?
I should qualify my earlier remarks - I used a MSD steel gear on an MSD Billet distributor, installed per their distance specification: 3.996-4.005. It got ate up along with the cam gear and the motor was full of steel filings. I will be running bronze this time around and the gear is installed per the Ford Motorsports specification: 4.031-4.038. This time I set the gear at a number, blued the bottom of the gear, installed the dist., shoved the shaft down hard and rotated the motor by hand to get a contact reading. When I got a consistent contact pattern I pinned the gear. 4.032 was the number on this block. I have a lot of mechanical inspection tools and used to be a front line mechanical inspector and later a QA program manager, so I'm pretty decent at getting a reading using calipers or a surface plate and height gauge. This is in a drag only application. I don't mind bronze - on the motors here I have to pull the distributor for an oil change so it gets looked at periodically anyway.
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I was under the impression that the end requirement was for the gear to ride gently on the bearing surface at the bottom of the hole.
>Did you gear end up sharp-edged (filings) or just worn down (mainly dust) on the whole O/D?
Gear had abnormal wear, thinned teeth. Same on the cam. Just "mud", not any damage to bearing surfaces. No, have no idea why. We speculated about it on Brent's 351C forum - no conclusion. It was set to the MSD spec and just got chewed. Don't know other than maybe it wasn't heat treated correctly.
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MSD makes you push the gear towards the cap.
Ford spec makes you pull the gear away from the cap.
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I was under the impression that the end requirement was for the gear to ride gently on the bearing surface at the bottom of the hole.
>Did you gear end up sharp-edged (filings) or just worn down (mainly dust) on the whole O/D?
Gear had abnormal wear, thinned teeth. Same on the cam. Just "mud", not any damage to bearing surfaces. No, have no idea why. We speculated about it on Brent's 351C forum - no conclusion. It was set to the MSD spec and just got chewed. Don't know other than maybe it wasn't heat treated correctly.
Like I said above...the MSD gears, since they went to China for them, are failing at a regular rate. They're just junk gears.
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Like I said above...the MDS gears, since they went to China for them, are failing at a regular rate. They're just junk gears.
Myelodysplastic Syndrome has nothing to do with distributor gears. Try to stay on subject.
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Brent
even with the high volume oil pump you think i should change to steel gear? How long do the bronze gears last on average?
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Brent
even with the high volume oil pump you think i should change to steel gear? How long do the bronze gears last on average?
Yes sir, I would.
I've seen bronze gears just last 2000-3000 miles.
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I have the crane hyd roller does crane make a steel gear for FE
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Yes, they do. 52971-1 for an MSD, 34970-1 for a factory distributor.
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Brent
even with the high volume oil pump you think i should change to steel gear? How long do the bronze gears last on average?
Yes sir, I would.
I've seen bronze gears just last 2000-3000 miles.
Thats 16,000 1/8 mile passes - I'm good. ;D