FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: ACHiPo on January 04, 2018, 11:24:01 PM
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I've searched without luck on information for which passages are and are not tested as part of an FE pressure test. Can someone point me to a video, cut-away drawing, etc. that makes it clear?
Thanks!
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As many as you can.
You can pressure test the water passages, which will find cracks in cylinders, porous lifter bores, etc.
You can also pressure test the oil passages, which will find a drill-through on an aftermarket block, crack in a main/cam passage, etc.
Most shops that are equipped to do it have the specialized plugs/manifolds to block whichever holes need to be checked. They will put 30-40 lbs of air pressure through and watch for a leak-down over time. If it leaks, then they will start spraying around with a soap/water solution looking for bubbles.
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Brent,
Thanks. I’ve found a video of a Bristol 6 cylinder oil galley test, but nothing on an FE, which I’m guessing is trickier.
AC
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Same principle, just more holes to plug.
On factory FE blocks, you watch close for the oil passages going from the cam to the mains and from the cam to the decks. On aftermarket blocks, you check everything, including the side main galleys.
For water, anything is game on a factory block. On aftermarket stuff, I've found most issues are in the lifter bores.
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On factory FE blocks, you watch close for the oil passages going from the cam to the mains and from the cam to the decks. On aftermarket blocks, you check everything, including the side main galleys.
On my SOG block, Blair found two pin-holes in the lifter valley, along the inner cylinder wall area. Probably from vent areas on the casting process, but they were not visible to the naked eye. He showed me with air pressure and spraying the area with a soapy solution. I'm glad it was checked, because I probably wouldn't have done that and that would have been a quick disaster. Brent has it right...ALWAYS check.
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On factory FE blocks, you watch close for the oil passages going from the cam to the mains and from the cam to the decks. On aftermarket blocks, you check everything, including the side main galleys.
On my SOG block, Blair found two pin-holes in the lifter valley, along the inner cylinder wall area. Probably from vent areas on the casting process, but they were not visible to the naked eye. He showed me with air pressure and spraying the area with a soapy solution. I'm glad it was checked, because I probably wouldn't have done that and that would have been a quick disaster. Brent has it right...ALWAYS check.
How did you fix it, or did Blair just junk the block and start over?
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You can also pressure test the oil passages, which will find a drill-through on an aftermarket block, crack in a main/cam passage, etc.
Most shops that are equipped to do it have the specialized plugs/manifolds to block whichever holes need to be checked. They will put 30-40 lbs of air pressure through and watch for a leak-down over time. If it leaks, then they will start spraying around with a soap/water solution looking for bubbles.
Brent,
It's pretty easy to understand how to leak check water passages of a bare block before assembly, as that system is supposed to be pressure tight. The oil system, however, is supposed to "leak" internally to distribute lubrication. I guess I don't even know how many oil openings there are in an FE, but there have to be about 20--2 for the oil pump, 2 for the oil filter, 5 for the main bearings, 5 for the cam, 8 for the top end (I probably missed a few--maybe 30)?
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A while back I bought the rubber plugs for FE and MEL coolant passages. A gauge, regulator and ball valve on the water pump plate. I am lacking cutting holes in some 1/2" plate to simulate the heads. The rubber plugs will hold up to 22 psi where I pressure test in car cooling systems. Some engines have to be tested cold to hot to cold and sometimes drivin to find a leak. Most shop probably just use a warm block, hot water and do fine.
I have not put my home made block tester to use yet. If you rig up something similar you should have a way to shield your self and your shop in case a 35 psi plug popped out.
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I use my manual hydrostatic pump and soapy water to pressure test both coolant and oil passages. Works great and there's no doubt when and where a leak may be.
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How did you fix it, or did Blair just junk the block and start over?
Junk a brand new $3500 siamesed bore block?...lol I don't think so! I haven't seen the repair, so I'm not sure. I think he may have drilled and tapped the area to seal them up. Either way, it got repaired, and I'm sure in a solid way.
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I use my manual hydrostatic pump and soapy water to pressure test both coolant and oil passages. Works great and there's no doubt when and where a leak may be.
How do you seal all of the oil openings, especially the mains and cam?
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Rubber plugs in the mains, held in place with aluminum pucks and the main caps. Have used old bearings as well. Grippers in the cam bearing journal's, have also used old mis aligned bearings here as well. Improvisation..
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Rubber plugs in the mains, held in place with aluminum pucks and the main caps. Have used old bearings as well. Grippers in the cam bearing journal's, have also used old mis aligned bearings here as well. Improvisation..
Thanks! That helps me visualize it (although I'd still love to see a picture or watch a video). What are "grippers" in the cam journal?
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Gripper plugs for testing. I use a lot of my plumbing test equipment, like the test plugs and hydrostatic pump. Not the same as but Similar to the gripper type freeze plugs used for emergency repairs. Just pressure tested a 391 block a few weeks ago.
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Keith,
You mean like this?
https://www.oatey.com/2372526/Product/Cherne-
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Yep, that's it.
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Yep, that's it.
Keith,
Would love to see pics of your set up--corking all the bearings, lifters, dizzy, etc. seems tough, but if it prevents a problem down the road I suppose it's worth it.
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Same principle, just more holes to plug.
On factory FE blocks, you watch close for the oil passages going from the cam to the mains and from the cam to the decks. On aftermarket blocks, you check everything, including the side main galleys.
For water, anything is game on a factory block. On aftermarket stuff, I've found most issues are in the lifter bores.
Brent (and others),
How does a new block have drill-through of side main galleys? I'd think today's CNC capability would be head and shoulders above 1960s technology, plus the aftermarket blocks are often beefier than the originals.
AC
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I’d kinda like to know myself.
My guess is that it’s a combination of core shift, machining tolerances, and lower QC.
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How does a new block have drill-through of side main galleys? I'd think today's CNC capability would be head and shoulders above 1960s technology, plus the aftermarket blocks are often beefier than the originals.
AC
A long drill will drift in operation - does not matter if a computer is controlling it or a guy with a Black & Decker. If it encounters a variation in hardness, an intersecting hole, or is just too long and running at the wrong speed, wrong pressure or is not sharp enough.
FWIW I have seen numerous original blocks with weld repairs and even epoxy that were very obviously done right after casting. The problems we are encountering are not at all new - just new to us
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Brent, Barry,
Great insight. Once again reinforcing how great this forum is, especially for know-nothings like me!
Thanks!
AC