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FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: GJCAT427 on December 26, 2017, 06:51:42 AM

Title: Prefence on piston rings?
Post by: GJCAT427 on December 26, 2017, 06:51:42 AM
Getting ready to build a tunnel port for the Galaxie. I have used every thing from cast to moly rings over the yrs. I`m wondering what you guys use and prefer? This puppy will see street and strip duty so whats the preference?
Title: Re: Prefence on piston rings?
Post by: gt350hr on December 26, 2017, 10:49:48 AM
   A good barrel face , plasma moly ring is hard to beat. Not "all" moly faced rings are the same. Speed Pro has always been a leader in premium top rings.
Title: Re: Prefence on piston rings?
Post by: jayb on December 26, 2017, 12:23:55 PM
The most modern ring packages have the thinnest rings, typically 0.9mm or 1.0mm top and second, and a 2.0mm oil ring package.  Top ring steel, second ring Napier.  Supposedly they seal up real well and reduce drag substantially; seems to me that Barry R has used some recently with good results...
Title: Re: Prefence on piston rings?
Post by: andyf on December 26, 2017, 12:48:56 PM
If you buy stroker pistons from Mahle they will come with a modern ring package. This is basically LS technology for a FE.
Title: Re: Prefence on piston rings?
Post by: blykins on December 26, 2017, 01:05:59 PM
My 354C with a 1mm/1mm/2mm ring pack takes 7 lbft to turn the rotating assembly over, with cam and timing set.

I would at least go with a modern piston with a 1.5/1.5/3mm ring pack.  That’s what I send with all of my FE rotating assemblies. 
Title: Re: Prefence on piston rings?
Post by: gt350hr on December 26, 2017, 02:56:47 PM
    The 1.5x1.5x3.0 is VERY popular these days. Some companies offer in their shelf piston line.  They certainly free up horsepower. The 1.0x1.0x2.0 ring pack offered by Mahle is gaining popularity too. My concern is oil control . 2.0mm is only .080 wide and leaves little space for the oil to flow through.
Title: Re: Prefence on piston rings?
Post by: Barry_R on December 26, 2017, 03:06:32 PM
I use a lot of the 1.0-1.0-2.0 rings with excellent results and no complaints to date.

Think a 2.0mm hole wont flow oil?
That's a .0787 inch hole - bigger than we use as a cylinder head feed restrictor.
Try seeing how much you can hold in a screen colander...  :)
Title: Re: Prefence on piston rings?
Post by: gt350hr on December 26, 2017, 04:09:47 PM
     I'm just TOO  old school! the groove starts out at .080 then you stuff two .020 wide rails in there and then the rest is taken up with the expander. Yes the napier design second ring helps a bunch. I haven't personally run less than a 3.0mm so I'll respect those who have used the 2.0mm and say it works. VERY low parasitic hp losses that's for sure!
Title: Re: Prefence on piston rings?
Post by: GJCAT427 on December 26, 2017, 05:35:59 PM
Ok I should have posted the piston specs before as they call out 1/16, 1/16, 3/16. The grove width is .0648, .0648, .1885. these are .020 over size Wisecos. Is there a metric ring pack in that range? Or should I stay with the SAE ring size? Thanks guys
Title: Re: Prefence on piston rings?
Post by: Falcon67 on December 26, 2017, 09:53:24 PM
I believe I used Hastings in that size, both the 351C and the 302 use older TRW forged.  Moly all the way.  Finish the cylinders for it and almost zero break in. Only use rings that fit your groove sizes.  Snd expect to spend well over $100 on a quality set. If you want to run a metric ring, IMHO buy new pistons.
Title: Re: Prefence on piston rings?
Post by: gt350hr on December 27, 2017, 10:11:38 AM
Ok I should have posted the piston specs before as they call out 1/16, 1/16, 3/16. The grove width is .0648, .0648, .1885. these are .020 over size Wisecos. Is there a metric ring pack in that range? Or should I stay with the SAE ring size? Thanks guys

     As Chris said you must stick with the 1/16x1/16x3/16 rings. Metric grooves are .060x.060x.119. Th erings measure .058.5x.058.5x.116. While they would fit in the groove , you would have bad ring seal and top ring flutter for certain.
Title: Re: Prefence on piston rings?
Post by: blykins on December 27, 2017, 10:18:24 AM
Stock eliminator ring spacers?
Title: Re: Prefence on piston rings?
Post by: Barry_R on December 27, 2017, 10:34:39 AM
Unless you are a competitive race application - just purchase a normal set of 1/16-1/16-3/16 rings from a know supplier.  Plasma-moly on a ductile iron or steel alloy top.  Match your existing pistons.

Many of the rings you buy today are made by the same guys once you open the box - lots of companies just make labels anymore in that business.  Basic manufacturers include Hastings and Mahle - the latter likely to be a better quality product.

Speed-Pro no longer makes anything - they purchase from Hastings.  Total Seal used to buy individual rings from all across the globe to assemble more ring set variations and sizes than anybody else had - they modified rings to fill in the blanks.  Not sure if they have ever moved to making them from scratch themselves but its certainly possible in the dozen years since I was in that business.  Perfect Circle no longer exists having been acquired by Mahle.
Title: Re: Prefence on piston rings?
Post by: scott foxwell on December 27, 2017, 03:38:33 PM
1.5-1.5-3mm to 1/16-1/16-3/16 = not enough difference to worry about.
Like was said, stick with piston manufacturer size and just get a decent quality ring set.
Title: Re: Prefence on piston rings?
Post by: Mike Caruso on January 02, 2018, 12:58:21 PM
Unless you are a competitive race application - just purchase a normal set of 1/16-1/16-3/16 rings from a know supplier.  Plasma-moly on a ductile iron or steel alloy top.  Match your existing pistons.

Many of the rings you buy today are made by the same guys once you open the box - lots of companies just make labels anymore in that business.  Basic manufacturers include Hastings and Mahle - the latter likely to be a better quality product.

Speed-Pro no longer makes anything - they purchase from Hastings.  Total Seal used to buy individual rings from all across the globe to assemble more ring set variations and sizes than anybody else had - they modified rings to fill in the blanks.  Not sure if they have ever moved to making them from scratch themselves but its certainly possible in the dozen years since I was in that business.  Perfect Circle no longer exists having been acquired by Mahle.
Hi Barry,
I had some engineers that left FEL-PRO when Federal-Mogul bought FP in 1998 and went to work for this piston ring company http://www.riken.co.jp/english/pistonring/ now there is a history of the company and one of the guy's there I talked with put a Ring Museum on there too. You can look around and learn a lot. The one thing I can tell you is Total-Seal gets their rings made by Riken. I think everyone here will find this Ring Museum very nicely done. Glad I could help.
Best always Buddy,
Mike
Title: Re: Prefence on piston rings?
Post by: gt350hr on January 03, 2018, 01:09:13 PM
    40 years ago .043 rings were "race only". Now days there are mass production cars with rings thinner than that. Car manufacturers had to search for advanced ways to improve fuel economy and reduced friction was one of the first ways. This put higher demands on the rings and forced them toward steel base materials and other improvements. Riken , NPR, and Mahle are all producing cutting edge rings already, Hastings is just getting into it although they do have the best oil ring around.
Title: Re: Prefence on piston rings?
Post by: Falcon67 on January 04, 2018, 04:25:37 PM
I had to look at my notes - the rings used in the 393C are 1/16-1/16-3.0mm, 11 lbs tension.  Easy to spin over the rotating assy with a small handle.  Add a solid roller, 16 each 240/625 springs - now you're gonna need a breaker bar.  :)