FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => Non-FE Discussion Forum => Topic started by: jayb on June 30, 2012, 04:59:32 PM
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This thing has kept me completely occupied for the last 4-5 weeks, taking me off my plans for getting the high riser engine together in May and ensuring a big thrash to get two motors together and into cars in order to make Drag Week this year. But I got a pretty good deal on this machine, and the market for machine tools seems to be really hot right now, so I figured I'd better grab it when I had the chance. The machine was in Tulsa OK and had just come out of a production shop, so it hadn't been cleaned up or anything. It also needed some minor repairs, some paint work, new glass, etc. But the price was right so after driving to Tulsa at the end of May to look at it, I bought it and made arrangements to get it up to my shop in Minnesota.
Due to the Memorial Day holiday I was not able to arrange a truck to get the machine moved until the first week in June. Then it had to be delivered to a local rigger, because the machine had to be taken apart on top in order to fit into my shop. It took me a week to get the service guy out to the riggers, and when he got out there he couldn't get the machine hooked up to power, so he left the job unfinished! (That's the last time I'll hire that company). Fortunately the rigger new a guy who could disassemble the machine for a nominal cost so he set that up for me, and a week and a half ago Thursday the rigger showed up at my place with two semis, one carrying the machine and the other carrying the fork lift. After unloading the fork lift and then picking up the machine, they stopped in the driveway to reposition the fork lift and I got this picture:
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/VF4-3.jpg)
Here's a shot inside the garage showing the spot for the machine in the right rear corner:
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/VF4-1.jpg)
The rigging crew helped me push the Shelby clone into the driveway so it was out of the way and the machine could be moved in. Here's a closer look at the corner where the machine is installed, and also a shot of my 20 HP 3 Phase converter:
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/VF4-2.jpg)
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/VF4-2a.jpg)
After some jockeying around the crew got the machine pushed through the garage door opening, with the column centered on the notch I had put into the beam over the door. Not much room there. That is one big fork lift LOL!
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/VF4-4.jpg)
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/VF4-5.jpg)
After getting it in the door, the crew set the machine down and then put it on some low profile rollers to move it into position. I was amazed at how easy that process was; the machine rolled right into position. After a little final jockeying around, they set the machine down in its final position, loaded up the fork lift, and took off. I guess anything is possible with the right equipment.
Last weekend I spent the whole weekend cleaning up and painting the machine. I vacuumed two complete 16 gallon shop vacs of chips out of the machine, from inside, underneath, on top, etc. Also everything was covered in some kind of coolant residue, and that stuff had to be scrubbed off. I was pleasantly surprised though about the condition of some of the machine components after the chips and grime had been removed. For example, the control panel had looked like crap when I got it, but a little household cleaner and it cleaned up and looked almost new. The paint on the outside of the machine on the sides and back was also real nice, but the paint on the front was pretty shot. This machine has four plexiglass windows in the front, originally installed with a rubber seal on each window, kind of a like a rear window is installed in an old car or pickup. Unfortunately the seals had been leaking, and there was rust around every front window as a result. I pulled out all the plexiglass and the doors of the machine, cleaned everything up and ground down all the rust, and then painted the doors and the machine front last Sunday. I spent the free evenings I had this week getting everything back assembled, and installing new plexiglass. I decided to forego the rubber seals and installled the plexiglass with screws and sealed it with RTV. I also cleaned up and painted the coolant tank and motor.
Last Monday night the guy who had taken the machine apart at the riggers came over to my place and re-assembled it, and also charged the counterbalance cylinder with Nitrogen so the head counterbalance worked. He turned out to be an old Ford racer so we had a good conversation while he re-assembled the machine.
Today I finally finished up all this work and ran some test programs on the machine. I've noticed a little bit of spindle noise at 5000 RPM, and also for some reason the spindle won't orient correctly for a tool change when spindle low gear is engaged. But that issue is pretty easy to get around in software. I plan to have a maintenance person who knows these machines come over and give it a detailed look sometime next week, because I bought the machine with a $2000 warranty so if there is anything wrong, I'm covered up to $2K. But after writing a test program and running it on the machine, it appears everything is working pretty well. Here's a few photos of the machine installed and operational in my shop:
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/VF4-6.jpg)
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/VF4-7.jpg)
Here's a shot you don't see too often, looking down at the top of the machine from the hole in the ceiling that I had to make to clear the head. It's pretty easy to work on the top of the machine from this vantage point:
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/VF4-8.jpg)
Finally, here's a 3 minute video of the machine running through a test program, but not cutting anything. The volume of coolant this thing puts out is pretty amazing. The last operations shown in the video are rigid tapping operations; one of the reasons I bought this machine is for that feature:
http://youtu.be/PrKayNSi4cA
The machine is already set up for a fourth axis, so I still need to get a Haas rotary table and a cradle to hold a vise or part to make that part of the machine operational. But most of the work and expense is done, and after Drag Week I'll be all set to go to start machining FE intake adapters 8) I'm fired up for that!
Edit- Added link to youtube.
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Awesome
That old dairy farm gets better all the time.
Have you modernized momma's chicken coop at all?
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I was looking at an automatic egg conveyor, but the wife would have nothing to do with it ;D
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That's a serious chomper!
Interesting. I'm looking at one of those American Rotary's, although a smidge smaller for powering up my some what
smaller chomper. ::)
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I've got two of those, and am pretty happy with them. My first one is just the control box, and I bought a 15 HP electric motor from a local outfit to run with the box. That worked out fine, but the 20HP unit I bought for this machine is quieter and doesn't have the exposed shaft, which could be a safety hazard I guess. In any case, the American Rotary stuff seems to work pretty well, and appears to be pretty high quality, to me anyway...
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Bloody awesome Jay. Just what been waiting to see. Now to see what you turn out
on it first.the rocker arms for the cammer, or the manifold adapters.
Best of luck.
Kevin
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Ya know... a wise man once said that: "there is a fine line between hobby and mental illness"
You sir have taken it to another level. Very awesome.
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Very nice Jay, that's a sweet toy to have hanging around. Have you got much experience with those, and do you have programming software etc?
I've got all kinds of free advice (worth every penny!) if you need any help with programming, operation or maintenance. First bit of free advice is take care of whatever maintenance or issues you can before calling Haas, and use their phone support to get as much done as you can. It always burns me up that they charge $80 per hour (or maybe it was more than that?) travel time for driving between their place and ours.
I've been programming with Mastercam for almost 14 years, had Bobcad for a couple years before that, and programmed with a calculator and legal pad for probably a year before that, lol. Our shop has been running Haas machines for probably 7 or 8 years and we've got 8 of em including 3 axis mills, 5 axis mills and a live tooled lathe. You could say I'm pretty familiar with the stuff! None of ours are quite as old as yours but I reckon there's plenty of similarity. Anyway, I'll be glad to help if you need anything and I'm not looking to take your money. Enjoy ;D
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OMG! At first glance when the video starts, (check out the video at .08) I thought there was a giant chicken foot with claws, stuck in the machine, and then it rises up. Gave me a heart attack and then liquid sprayed out from the claws. I thought I was watching a horror film! :o ;D :o ;)
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What flavor of coolant works best: Whole, 2% or skim? ;D
Can't wait to see some new adapter intakes on that thing.
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I'd like to have that chip auger on mine! Nice :) For coolant I'd recommend Blasocut 2000 Universal. It's worked very well for us.
So are you sleeping out in the shop next to the new toy? Very cool!
Hey - You may want to consider getting a Calmotion LANCNC unit for your machine.
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r33/EspeceDeSaluad/LANCNC.jpg)
This little gem lets you drag and drop program files from your windows network to the machine through the RS-232 port. We set ours up on a Cisco wireless bridge router, so our CAD stations can get programs quickly to the machine. This will also help a great deal with the memory limitations of older Haas machines, since you can pop in a multi-GB SD memory card. It will do direct numerical control as well. For us it was $500 very well spent!
http://www.cnccncmachines.com/articles/6481/1/LANCNC-Controller-for-CNCs-from-Calmotion/LANCNC-Controller-for-CNCs-from-Calmotion.html
- Bill
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Ya know... a wise man once said that: "there is a fine line between hobby and mental illness"
You sir have taken it to another level. Very awesome.
I descended into the "mental illness" phase of all my hobbies quite some time ago LOL!
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Very nice Jay, that's a sweet toy to have hanging around. Have you got much experience with those, and do you have programming software etc?
I've got all kinds of free advice (worth every penny!) if you need any help with programming, operation or maintenance. First bit of free advice is take care of whatever maintenance or issues you can before calling Haas, and use their phone support to get as much done as you can. It always burns me up that they charge $80 per hour (or maybe it was more than that?) travel time for driving between their place and ours.
I've been programming with Mastercam for almost 14 years, had Bobcad for a couple years before that, and programmed with a calculator and legal pad for probably a year before that, lol. Our shop has been running Haas machines for probably 7 or 8 years and we've got 8 of em including 3 axis mills, 5 axis mills and a live tooled lathe. You could say I'm pretty familiar with the stuff! None of ours are quite as old as yours but I reckon there's plenty of similarity. Anyway, I'll be glad to help if you need anything and I'm not looking to take your money. Enjoy ;D
Thanks for the offer of help; I'm sure I'll need some sooner or later. At this point I'm only starting up with the software. My old CNC machine had a conversational programming interface, so I programmed everything on the control, but I didn't have to go straight to G code; the control made the conversion. That's not really an option with this machine, so I plan to borrow a copy of Solidworks and Mastercam from a friend of mine who is in the business, to try to learn how to do this the right way. But I won't have time for that until after Drag Week.
I hear you on the maintenance thing; the local service organization for Haas charges $125 an hour, including the trip time. Fortunately they are only 15 minutes away from me. With luck I can avoid calling them for a while.
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I'd like to have that chip auger on mine! Nice :) For coolant I'd recommend Blasocut 2000 Universal. It's worked very well for us.
So are you sleeping out in the shop next to the new toy? Very cool!
Hey - You may want to consider getting a Calmotion LANCNC unit for your machine.
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r33/EspeceDeSaluad/LANCNC.jpg)
This little gem lets you drag and drop program files from your windows network to the machine through the RS-232 port. We set ours up on a Cisco wireless bridge router, so our CAD stations can get programs quickly to the machine. This will also help a great deal with the memory limitations of older Haas machines, since you can pop in a multi-GB SD memory card. It will do direct numerical control as well. For us it was $500 very well spent!
http://www.cnccncmachines.com/articles/6481/1/LANCNC-Controller-for-CNCs-from-Calmotion/LANCNC-Controller-for-CNCs-from-Calmotion.htm
- Bill
Thanks for the tip Bill, I'll look at that. I'm using Hocut 175-H coolant in this machine, which was recommended by my friend who runs the tool and die shop. Supposed to prevent rust and also not leave any residue on the parts. We'll see how it works out...
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Sounds like you've got it figured out. On rigid tapping - set the spindle speed SLOOOOW, like a few hundred rpm. The vector drive and your taps will thank you ;D. You cannot go wrong getting the best spiral flute taps either!
I've learned a lot of tricks on the Haas control. Hit me up with any questions or concerns! I don't use MasterCam but obviously that's a good choice. It will take some time to come up to speed on the Solidworks...
Fun!
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I plan to borrow a copy of Solidworks and Mastercam from a friend of mine who is in the business, to try to learn how to do this the right way. But I won't have time for that until after Drag Week.
I hear you on the maintenance thing; the local service organization for Haas charges $125 an hour, including the trip time. Fortunately they are only 15 minutes away from me. With luck I can avoid calling them for a while.
Excellent choice on the software, I think you will like that and will pick it up quick. If you're using a friends copy it sounds like you've got some good help right there at hand too, which is great. On the Haas service being 15 min away... SCORE!
If you get rolling and purchase your own copy of Mastercam I can't recommend strongly enough to get the solids module. Soildworks may actually be a little easier to use but not by a lot and unless you're getting it for free I think the module will be cheaper. I'm programming pretty much everything using solids these days using only Mastercam and I've found I'm way faster and more accurate because of it. When I go back and look at some of the old stuff done with wireframes I almost can't believe I got anything done that way. Sheeze, the difference is huge.
Here are a couple screenshots of car stuff I've modeled in Mastercam recently to give you a bit of encouragement. One is a rocker trim clip I made for my Galaxie since the ones I needed aren't reproduced by anyone. I cut them from 1/2" nylon sheet on the 5 axis mill in a single setup leaving the completed part attached to the remaining stock by a small tab that snapped off easily by hand. The head model took longer but I made it accurate to my heads and was able to use this model to plan the best location and proper cut depth to CC my heads before making any actual cuts. You can do just about anything you can think of with this stuff, I'm excited for you getting going!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/Wademeister/th_Rockertrimclip1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v440/Wademeister/?action=view¤t=Rockertrimclip1.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/Wademeister/th_Rockertrimclip2.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v440/Wademeister/?action=view¤t=Rockertrimclip2.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/Wademeister/Galaxie/th_HEADMOD-1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v440/Wademeister/Galaxie/?action=view¤t=HEADMOD-1.jpg)
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Excellent choice on the software, I think you will like that and will pick it up quick. If you're using a friends copy it sounds like you've got some good help right there at hand too, which is great. On the Haas service being 15 min away... SCORE!
That is actually what kind of pushed me into a Haas machine, the availability of a good service organization that was close by. That's pretty important for an older machine, I think....
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Very cool Jay!
Gotta wonder if you're ultimately headed in this direction. Darton's sleeve system, wet cylinders, the availability of forged aluminum stock.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KLNJ8d8Vqc&feature=relmfu
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I use Solidworks 2012 at work. I don't claim to be a power user but I might be able to offer encouragement. Do you have prints of the adapter you are trying to make?
The CNC guys I work with are using Surfcam. They don't take the models as a Solidworks files, I have to convert them to a parasolid.
Lars
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:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
I am reminded of a comment I read of a number of years ago:
"It looks just like what God could do if he only had a little more money!"
(No sacrilege intended)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
KS