FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: Yellow Truck on July 12, 2017, 09:39:10 AM
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Nothing about MSD surprises me at this point. After my distributor died following 12 minutes of use I had to send it back for repair. It seems the module had failed, and I could hear a high pitched squeak when I rotated the shaft. They called to say they couldn't re-use the Crane melonized iron gear and asked for a new one.
I called Barry R who sent them a new gear. MSD now can't find the gear, but the new problem (9 weeks after I sent the distributor in) is that they don't have any shafts to repair my distributor, and don't know when they will. I suggested that it was unreasonable and they should just ship me a new one, and they said they don't have any new ones either.
I had put my old autolite distributor back on, but it had some issues and now it seems the shaft is jumping up and down in the distributor and cutting up the posts and arcing inside the cap.
Thinking I may need a non-MSD option here but there don't seem to be many good ones.
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Duraspark
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Hmmm ...Points seems more and moore reliable :o ;D
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I'm using an old accel dual point that fires my msd 7 box and coil. 100$ on ebay. New durasparks at the parts store are 50$ or so.
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I'm beginning to see a trend here >:(
I'm already forming a not-so-rosey letter to them. Having to carry a spare out of fear of breaking down because of their part, is not acceptable in my book. If it happens again, I'm done with them.
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Don't like hearing this, have a distributor that needs a new shaft + reluctor and haven't sent it in yet. I'd hate to get a $270 unit hung up in service. I re-did a Duraspark unit to lock the timing advance for her car that so far runs fine.
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Get in touch with Faron Rhoads. He sells brand new reproduction Duraspark units.
TotalPerfEntofPa(AT symbol)aol(DOT)com
Very nice quality.
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Hmmm ...Points seems more and moore reliable :o ;D
I laugh every time I read someone dissing points, because I know that sooner or later (usually sooner), their car is going to be a gutter-lane ornament. Points worked then; points work now. How could anyone think that Chink-produced modules would be the ticket to reliability? Insane? Why yes, yes it is. Pick your points tension to match your rpm range, set and forget. It's not like anyone here drives his FE enough miles to actually wear out a set.
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My black car went 13 yrs til it finally used the contacts up. Yup, gutter lane ornament! Pulled home at 1 am, with a toe strap up the highway. Ya, I like to be an "outlaw". Of course the new Taiwan condenser that I put in with the new points lasted less then 100 miles. I dug up a rusty used condenser from ?? years back and 2 yrs later it is still running fine.
The only other problem is the Taiwan points don't have enough spring pressure to let it go over 5K rpm. I figure that is safer then the 6K pill in the MSD soft touch.
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The only other problem is the Taiwan points don't have enough spring pressure to let it go over 5K rpm. I figure that is safer then the 6K pill in the MSD soft touch.
Try 32 oz Accels, rated to 6500 rpm: http://www.ebay.com/itm/292178553869
Edit: Cheaper http://www.ebay.com/itm/361415068569
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part # is correct, but the pic is a chevy set.
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part # is correct, but the pic is a chevy set.
[sarc]Yep, cuz nobody ever shows a generic Chevy pic when selling you a Ford part.[/sarc] ;D
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Anybody know the actual specs on a Phord ignition condenser? Seems we could source a higher quality piece from a non-automotive source.
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My black car went 13 yrs til it finally used the contacts up.
I used the stock distributor with points to trigger the MSD Blaster ignition in my '68 Highboy. I LOVED that set-up! Since there was VERY little current running through the points (all it did was trigger the box), those points lasted over 20 years!! In fact, they were still in use when I parked the truck due to rust. I had to gap them once or twice when the gap closed up to nothing because of the rubbing block being wore down, but that was no big deal. Now the box (going on its 24th year) is being used in my '70 F350, but is triggered by a Duraspark distributor. Of course MSD quit making the Blaster ignition. It must have been too reliable ::)
I still prefer points for reliability (still using points in the '65 Galaxies), but you can't beat the electronic stuff for quick starts and clean idles. For a real performance engine, there is no comparison.
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For a real performance engine, there is no comparison.
[sarc] Yep, 'cuz you look like a happenin' stud when you're parked in the gutter[/sarc] ;)
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Had thoughts of mounting the condenser on the outside, like the old Mallorys, that way when it does fail I can get to it easily without having to unbolt blower and rotate out of the way...... :(
lifetime supply of Motorcraft points:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOTORCRAFT-POINT-SET-CONTACT-POINT-Set-IGNITION-POINTS-NOS-NIP-DP-3-/122518988010?epid=79055592&hash=item1c86b364ea:g:Kr0AAOSwjL5ZKeBE
Anyone know if these typically are heavy sprung? Or what is the part number for the dual point set up? Same?
I know the original tune up I put in it back in 2000 when I put it together had NO problem hitting 6K(rev limiter). The cheapie Azone points set is what is in there now and not worth a crap.
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Im just in from the shop where i have wired up the 390
to the test bench with a points dist that i picked up from
the barnfloor and i have blue nice spark
so easy to check for spark with points just open and close them
with a screwdriver
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Anybody know the actual specs on a Phord ignition condenser? Seems we could source a higher quality piece from a non-automotive source.
they are .21 - .25 mfd. There really aren't any substitutes for them. First, it is an odd value in the electronic world. Second, they would be really physically big with solid lead conductors which won't stand up to vibration. You can tell if your condenser is off value if the points are pitting to one side of the contacts. Doesn't hurt to carry a spare or two in the parts box in the trunk along with the monkey.
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Anybody know the actual specs on a Phord ignition condenser? Seems we could source a higher quality piece from a non-automotive source.
they are .21 - .25 mfd. There really aren't any substitutes for them. First, it is an odd value in the electronic world. Second, they would be really physically big with solid lead conductors which won't stand up to vibration. You can tell if your condenser is off value if the points are pitting to one side of the contacts. Doesn't hurt to carry a spare or two in the parts box in the trunk along with the monkey.
How about these from the HVAC industry? http://www.ebay.com/itm/253039618525
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Won't fit inside dist. Plus they look old & age is an enemy of caps.
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Putting them outside the distributor is probably better for heat. What goes wrong from age in an unused cap?
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Most european cars have them outside of the dist.
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I laugh every time I read someone dissing points, because I know that sooner or later (usually sooner), their car is going to be a gutter-lane ornament. Points worked then; points work now. How could anyone think that Chink-produced modules would be the ticket to reliability? Insane? Why yes, yes it is. Pick your points tension to match your rpm range, set and forget. It's not like anyone here drives his FE enough miles to actually wear out a set.
There is no need for racial denigrations.
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When i was in the Army i had a crappy old Ford Taunus
with a Pinto four One early morning i was going back from leave
and it run worse and worse until it quit sowere in middle of nowhere
in the deep forest. the plastic nub on the points had wore down
I found a ziptie in the glovecompartment that i was able to zip around
the points to get a new nub and found a knife that i was able to adjust
the points with arrived with 7 minutes to get in the uniform and fall in :D
Fix the electronics with a rusty knife and a ziptie if you can ;D
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I laugh every time I read someone dissing points, because I know that sooner or later (usually sooner), their car is going to be a gutter-lane ornament. Points worked then; points work now. How could anyone think that Chink-produced modules would be the ticket to reliability? Insane? Why yes, yes it is. Pick your points tension to match your rpm range, set and forget. It's not like anyone here drives his FE enough miles to actually wear out a set.
There is no need for racial denigrations.
Guess the admin here is a libtard, too, considering he just erased my reply post to you.
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Putting them outside the distributor is probably better for heat. What goes wrong from age in an unused cap?
http://www.johansondielectrics.com/ceramic-capacitor-aging-made-simple
Not sure how much of this applies to item discussed, but the part about restoring effect at a certain temp is interesting, considering the environment under hood. Lots and lots of NOS caps on eBay; surely they are not all junk?
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There is rumors that you could replace the Cap
with a potato for a short while. :o havent tried it
though ;D
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There is rumors that you could replace the Cap
with a potato for a short while. :o havent tried it
though ;D
Cool. Next time I am parked in the gutter I'm going to attach a potato to the engine and claim to passers-by it was an R&D experiment that failed. With my BS skills, I'm sure I can convince.
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;D ;D ;D ;D Guys remember to allways keep a couple of spare Potatos
in the trunk
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;D ;D ;D ;D Guys remember to allways keep a couple of spare Potatos
in the trunk
Make sure you buy them from a ho.
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;D ;D ;D ;D Guys remember to allways keep a couple of spare Potatos
in the trunk
Make sure you buy them from a ho.
Of course, that would be somebody from IdaHO. OMG, did I use a denigrating term? I must be rayciss. Apologies to all the potato farmers from that state. At least I didn't say spudfuggers. Cuz feelings.
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Nothing about MSD surprises me at this point. After my distributor died following 12 minutes of use I had to send it back for repair. It seems the module had failed, and I could hear a high pitched squeak when I rotated the shaft. They called to say they couldn't re-use the Crane melonized iron gear and asked for a new one.
I called Barry R who sent them a new gear. MSD now can't find the gear, but the new problem (9 weeks after I sent the distributor in) is that they don't have any shafts to repair my distributor, and don't know when they will. I suggested that it was unreasonable and they should just ship me a new one, and they said they don't have any new ones either.
I had put my old autolite distributor back on, but it had some issues and now it seems the shaft is jumping up and down in the distributor and cutting up the posts and arcing inside the cap.
Thinking I may need a non-MSD option here but there don't seem to be many good ones.
That is what happens when you pretty much become the only game in town. I have always ran Mallory unilites with no issues and it was a bad day when MSD swallowed them up.
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A Duraspark is in my plans and trigger a MSD box with that
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A Duraspark is in my plans and trigger a MSD box with that
No points, no condenser, and no potato. Bummer.
Anyway, I'm going to try logging out and logging back in. If you don't hear from me again, I've been banned for 6 to 12 months. Boo hoo. Try to stay out of a coma in the meantime. And Merry Christmas, just in case.
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Anyway, I'm going to try logging out and logging back in. If you don't hear from me again, I've been banned for 6 to 12 months. Boo hoo. Try to stay out of a coma in the meantime. And Merry Christmas, just in case.
Now FElony, you can come down off the cross, no one has banned you ;D ;D
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Anyway, I'm going to try logging out and logging back in. If you don't hear from me again, I've been banned for 6 to 12 months. Boo hoo. Try to stay out of a coma in the meantime. And Merry Christmas, just in case.
Now FElony, you can come down off the cross, no one has banned you ;D ;D
As a Catholic Latino, I am offended by you making light of our Savior's most painful sacrifice, which he endured for all our souls. Even yours, infidel.
PC is a bitch, ain't it?
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As a Catholic Latino, I am offended by you making light of our Savior's most painful sacrifice, which he endured for all our souls. Even yours, infidel.
PC is a bitch, ain't it?
It isn't about PC, your problem is pride of ignorance. I avoid buying Chinese made products and absolutely won't eat any food that originates in China, but I don't need to use racial slurs to explain why. Civility is quality to be admired, ignorance and its frequent cause (stupidity) is to be rebuked.
It is worth noting that the highest quality electronics are also made in Taiwan, Korea, and China as well as the cheap crap that North American firms outsource to the third world. Place the blame where it belongs - on large American investment banks asset stripping formerly great companies and forcing them to relentlessly cut costs to satisfy "activist" investors. The Chinese didn't outsource American jobs to the third world, it was Americans.
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Back to the subject of the thread - MSD. I got a call back from a very nice man who said that in digging deeper he had learned that they could re-use the same shaft as it had only been drilled once, and further that it had already been assembled and passed two extended tests at 3 to 4,000 rpm. To add to the confusion the repair group said that it had NOT had the module replace.
This is really puzzling - if it was good why did they take it apart? If they took it apart why would they put it back together with the same module? These were his points, and he professed confusion. He thinks that they did but it was so long ago that they forgot they had. I had a call from them asking for a new gear several weeks ago, and at that time I was told the module was bad.
We shall see.
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As a Catholic Latino, I am offended by you making light of our Savior's most painful sacrifice, which he endured for all our souls. Even yours, infidel.
PC is a bitch, ain't it?
...Civility is quality to be admired...
Good, let's talk about civility. The Chinese, for the most part, are a disgusting people. Aside from eating pets and insects and god knows what, they use open holes on city streets to defecate in; they think nothing of squatting in front of anybody. Toilet paper? Uh, no. Their society is based on a hierarchy of corruption, from the bottom to the top. They have no regard for each others' welfare or safety, as evidenced by a multitude of videos showing loose children and infants getting squashed by drivers that do not stop, rampant daily muggings, and epic robbery levels. I guess when there's a billion of you, and you all look the same, then who cares about the individual.
Slave labor and human trafficking is status quo. Working conditions are severe. The elite care not about air pollution so thick you can wack it with a machete. "Businessmen" manufacture rice, eggs, and other "food" out of plastic and sell it to the poor. China leads the world in stolen technology and counterfeit merchandise. They have no regard for patents held by any one else. They build huge new cities with thousands of apartments that remain vacant while the plebes live 12 to a room. A few years back I had an acquaintance that went there under a tech contract for over a year. The crap he told me about what goes on over there was stupefying, and too graphic for even me to repeat here.
But you want to talk about civility? How about reality? They have more racial epithets for the white man than we have for them. They actually consider us beneath them as a culture, and not a one of them would hesitate to stick a knife in you to take your house and cars and money. And speaking of money, you have to be blind to not see that the Chinese government and banks are trying to manipulate and leverage debt so they can, as they proclaimed, assume the leadership in global economic and political affairs.
Civility my ass. Prejudice is a learned attitude. When you PC libs stop virtue signalling long enough to observe reality, you discover that stereotypes really have a basis in fact. Right now the white male is in the crosshairs of every other possible group on this planet, and I'll be damned if I'm going to rub their tummies and share my Jack Daniel's with them while they hone that blade behind my back.
And if you ain't a part of the solution, you're part of the problem. I've said my piece, and I'm done with this topic.
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I gotta agree with Alan, I been running Mallory Unilites for at least 15 yrs got one in my Harley shovelhead that keeps on ticking. One in the 56 F100 has been replaced but not sure what caused that to fail, it was out of service for serveral yrs while the truck was being rebuilt. Popped in a new one and fires up. The one in the galaxie is all of 15 yrs and still pops off when started. anyone know the difference between the unilite and the e-spark modules? Could never get an answer from Mallory tech other than price.
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I installed one of these on my FE sled puller 2 years ago, I really like it.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-d133811/overview/make/ford
Nick
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I gotta agree with Alan, I been running Mallory Unilites for at least 15 yrs got one in my Harley shovelhead that keeps on ticking. One in the 56 F100 has been replaced but not sure what caused that to fail, it was out of service for serveral yrs while the truck was being rebuilt. Popped in a new one and fires up. The one in the galaxie is all of 15 yrs and still pops off when started. anyone know the difference between the unilite and the e-spark modules? Could never get an answer from Mallory tech other than price.
Back when, RobbMc said they were all the same. I cannot see the difference externally, but when I replace them, which is nearly never since Faron taught me about controlling coil voltage at the positive side, I use the E-spark or Accel points eliminator module, whichever is the cheapest, usually the Accel version.
FYI - if anyone decides to run one, two things.
1 - If triggering an MSD or other CD ignition, they almost cannot fail because they do not see any significant voltage.
2 - if not, care must be taken to keep power at the positive side of the coil at 12V or below. That means firing the vehicle, letting the battery recover and checking running voltage, adding a resistor if required. Mallory says this clearly, but not how, so it often goes missed. People tend to look at the red feed wire to the module, not what happens through the trigger wire when the coil collapses. Mallory allows for 15V through the feed wire to the LED< it's tough, it's the backfeed from too much voltage that kills them.
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I do really enjoy this forum. I like the fact that my questions are met with thoughtful replies even when my ignorance is obvious. With one exception the answers are thoughtful and take the subject very deep.
I'll try the MSD again when it gets back. If it fails I'll consider a Duraspark next. I did follow the instructions on the install and ran new wire from the ignition to the MSD box, so I don't have a resistor wire. I've never seen high voltage out of the old voltage regulator and alternator, so I don't think anything external caused it to fail.
If it fails again I don't see persisting with it as a useful plan. I did write to Faron to inquire about the price of one of his but I have not heard back from him.
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As a Catholic Latino, I am offended by you making light of our Savior's most painful sacrifice, which he endured for all our souls. Even yours, infidel.
PC is a bitch, ain't it?
...Civility is quality to be admired...
Good, let's talk about civility. The Chinese, for the most part, are a disgusting people. Aside from eating pets and insects and god knows what, they use open holes on city streets to defecate in; they think nothing of squatting in front of anybody. Toilet paper? Uh, no. Their society is based on a hierarchy of corruption, from the bottom to the top. They have no regard for each others' welfare or safety, as evidenced by a multitude of videos showing loose children and infants getting squashed by drivers that do not stop, rampant daily muggings, and epic robbery levels. I guess when there's a billion of you, and you all look the same, then who cares about the individual.
Slave labor and human trafficking is status quo. Working conditions are severe. The elite care not about air pollution so thick you can wack it with a machete. "Businessmen" manufacture rice, eggs, and other "food" out of plastic and sell it to the poor. China leads the world in stolen technology and counterfeit merchandise. They have no regard for patents held by any one else. They build huge new cities with thousands of apartments that remain vacant while the plebes live 12 to a room. A few years back I had an acquaintance that went there under a tech contract for over a year. The crap he told me about what goes on over there was stupefying, and too graphic for even me to repeat here.
But you want to talk about civility? How about reality? They have more racial epithets for the white man than we have for them. They actually consider us beneath them as a culture, and not a one of them would hesitate to stick a knife in you to take your house and cars and money. And speaking of money, you have to be blind to not see that the Chinese government and banks are trying to manipulate and leverage debt so they can, as they proclaimed, assume the leadership in global economic and political affairs.
Civility my ass. Prejudice is a learned attitude. When you PC libs stop virtue signalling long enough to observe reality, you discover that stereotypes really have a basis in fact. Right now the white male is in the crosshairs of every other possible group on this planet, and I'll be damned if I'm going to rub their tummies and share my Jack Daniel's with them while they hone that blade behind my back.
And if you ain't a part of the solution, you're part of the problem. I've said my piece, and I'm done with this topic.
The guy telling the truth is "the crazy guy". It's pretty much always been that way.
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I have worked in the U.S., Canada, England, France, Germany, Holland, Poland, Italy, Slovenia, Spain, Portugal, Egypt, Jordan, Bahrain, the UAE, Qatar, Oman, Turkey, Kuwait, Nigeria, South Africa, Kenya, Ghana, Australia, New Zealand, the Philippines, Japan, Singapore, Korea, and China. I've been to a bunch of other places where I didn't work.
The people I worked with were surprisingly similar in all of them. The countries and economic systems had issues, but for the most part people try to do the best they can. I've also seen xenophobia - there are ignorant racists everywhere - and corruption. I've seen poverty that is hard to imagine beside astonishing wealth.
I've made a lot of money, created companies where the average salary was over $250,000 per year where we have had zero turn over in 10 years. I'm clearly not a socialist. If you want to find out what is wrong with the world, don't look at the poor and disenfranchised for the cause. Look at the rich and powerful. Look at Wall Street.
I know, I used to work there.
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If you want to find out what is wrong with the world, don't look at the poor and disenfranchised for the cause. Look at the rich and powerful. Look at Wall Street.
Yep. Countries are poor because the rich keep them that way.
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The people I worked with were surprisingly similar in all of them. The countries and economic systems had issues, but for the most part people try to do the best they can. I've also seen xenophobia - there are ignorant racists everywhere - and corruption. I've seen poverty that is hard to imagine beside astonishing wealth.
I've made a lot of money, created companies where the average salary was over $250,000 per year where we have had zero turn over in 10 years. I'm clearly not a socialist. If you want to find out what is wrong with the world, don't look at the poor and disenfranchised for the cause. Look at the rich and powerful. Look at Wall Street.
I know, I used to work there.
Of the off topic and politicized commentary I have seen across the various automotive sites this stands out as perhaps the best worded and most coherently stated summary about the outsourcing topic I have read. We have one side of the aisle forcing our industry to adhere to workplace and environmental rules that we do not require of our trading partners, and the other side of the aisle using the costs associated with meeting those rules, coupled with the enormous disparity in labor costs, to justify the outsourcing of entire industries in pursuit of profit. That pursuit is inherent and necessary in our system, but left uncontrolled it forces a leveling of worldwide wages for the working class - something not entirely beneficial to the country with the higher standard of living.
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Thanks Barry. Back on topic - I should get the MSD back today. If it fails again I'll buy something else. I'm thinking about a Duraspark from Faron Rhoads.
I forgot to mention Thailand, I worked there too. Interesting cultural clash. We were hired as consultants to figure out why the exchange trading system was losing orders between the broker's systems and the exchange. Their IT team was made up of a mid 30's guy as manager and a group of young women. We had them walk us through the architecture of their system, in particular how they constructed their messaging system that passed orders and other information between systems.
They told us it was based on UDP (User Datagram Protocol) rather than TCP (Transmission Control Protocol) for their transmission protocol. UDP is akin to a radio station broadcasting a signal. They don't know who is getting the signal and don't really care. A lost message is assumed to be no big deal. TCP/IP is what is used in most computer systems, and it has methods to ensure that messages are delivered or the sending system is informed so it can re-send.
If you use UDP it is up to the system designer to add in a method to ensure delivery. This is usually done by putting sequence numbers in the messages so you can tell if one was dropped, add an acknowledgement feature so the sending system gets confirmation, and you need a heart beat to tell you the system is still up or you could lose messages and not know. It can be done, but generally it is better to just use TCP.
We asked if they had built a transmission guarantee layer, and the looked confused. They had paid us to fly to Bangkok since we were among the world leading experts in this type of technology. We had scheduled 3 days to work on the problem, and it was 9 am on the first day and we said - "We know what your problem is".
They were so upset over the loss of face (took us three questions to find the problem) that they would never speak to us again. We got paid and had two days in Bangkok to sightsee.
As you might imagine, over the last 30 years I haven't had a lot of weekends at home, explains why it took me until I was in my late 50's to build my first FE.
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Well, since you're keeping it going...
All your ramblings are just a smokescreen that obfuscates the original reason you poked me with a stick. Respect, whether it be individually or as a group, is earned, not demanded. If the Chinese companies that are tasked with providing us quality products for our money fail to do so, then they do not nor cannot demand respect. And they should take criticism in any form as they deserve. When the overwhelming majority of their production leaves much to be desired, then they shoulder the reputation. It has nothing to do with the color of their skin or genetic makeup, but concerns how they function as a society.
I don't think anybody these days argues that the elite and their financial warfare are not a problem. THE problem. Much of their ability to destruct this society has been facilitated by Political Correctness, the social permeation of which caused you to get triggered by a relatively innocuous comment. PC is cancer. PC is refuting 1st Amendment rights. And your global meanderings give you no holy right to force your structured version of civility on anyone else. You criticize the rich, but you are a pawn.
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In as much as this discussion affects the quality and availability of parts related to FE engines and cars, we can keep it going. But let's not let it devolve into a purely political discussion, because that's against the rules and would force me to lock this topic. Thanks, Jay
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FeLONY, so far I have not cast any aspersions on you or your character. I have pointed out that racial slurs are not necessary, and not helpful. I have encouraged civility. You have called me, and others on this site, a number of fairly rude things. I do note that you have added little or nothing in terms of actionable advice or information to any thread. You do like to jump in on threads and offer insults and ignorant comments.
I can only assume from your behaviour that you have no other way of attracting attention to yourself. Most of us come here for the thoughtful and informed advice we get. There are a number of people who post here who are exceptionally accomplished. I don't need to name them, we all know who they are. They add value to the discussion. A thread that degenerates into a rant or a screed of hate and insults is guaranteed to be driven by you.
I am sorry that your life is so sad that you need to blame others for all your disappointments. Perhaps if you met some of the people you like to denigrate you would be pleasantly surprised. I do hope things improve for you.
Jay, I do think this topic should be locked. I will report separately what happens with the MSD distributor that is now in my front hall.
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Yep, lock it so we won't have to listen to this sanctimonious PC shill.
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OK, its locked. :-X