FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => Non-FE Discussion Forum => Topic started by: turbohunter on June 09, 2017, 11:52:40 AM
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I find that that particular sound which we all remember can only be produced in vintage electronics.
I swear it's taken over my world as much as cars have.
I guess it's all part of that era, but I think it's more than that.
Soul. There is no soul in stuff produced now.
What do you guys listen to?
I have some Fishers and Marantz junk. I used to street race on Mason avenue where Marantz was located and always dug the look of the building.
Back then there stuff was unobtainium for this poor boy.
Whatchyall listening to?
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Marc, when I mentioned that I messed with old tube amplifiers, I mainly mess around with guitar amplifiers. Absolutely nothing compares to tubes when it comes to guitar amplifiers. Still, I do have a few vintage tube amplifiers used for radios and such. One of them is a vintage Dynaco amplifier, which has been considered the 'gold' standard for vintage tube amplifiers for some time. They have a very clean sound with that warmth that only tubes can give. I have a few others, but nothing that compares to that Dynaco!
Before I was born, my Dad used to own and operate a radio and TV repair shop. He went to Devry institute out of high school (1952) and literally built my Grandparents first TV. He has a LOT of vintage radios and parts, but the top of the ladder is a vintage Scott radio that, if you don't know anything about them, were considered the Cadillacs of radios back in the '30s and '40s. His is an open style, or cabinet-less model (sometimes known as a table top) that is 100% chrome plated on the outside. Every cover for every part, including the frame, is chrome plated. It was a top-of-the-line model that only rich people could afford back in the day. I've wanted that thing for a LONG time, but he won't give it up till he's gone. I can wait on that one :)
The few others I have are a couple of vintage RCA, Zenith and Philco radios that I've enjoyed fixing and listening to. But I think my favorite is a 1924 Atwater Kent with a megaphone speaker. My Dad and I found it in a junkyard when I was about 10 years old. Amazingly, it was complete and still had its full complement of 01A tubes, which are very hard to find, or at least they were back then. The internet makes everything easier these days. Anyway, we restored it together (the first one he taught me on) and I still have it and listen to it to this day. I'm not a huge sports fan, but I get a kick out of listening to baseball games on that thing! I'll tell ya, it's like being transported back in time listening to a game through that old megaphone speaker. I used to stay up at night as a kid and listen to radio programs on that thing. Lots of memories from that lil old radio :)
Side note on that Atwater Kent, as well as a LOT of radios from the '20s and '30s, they literally cost more than your average Model T or Model A back then. My friends never believed me on that until I showed them original adds that I have from back then. At one point you could buy a Model T for a little more than $200, but the mid-line and up Atwater Kents were closer to $300 and up. They had base line models, called "bread board" models, that were about the same cost as a Model T. The radios internals were literally exposed and only mounted on a plank of wood. Very basic. When you think about it, that tells you how important the radio was to America and rural communities. Next to their house, it was the biggest, most expensive luxury that they ever had.
I love tubes! :)
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I have a Technics receiver amplifier from late 70-is and a sonny blue-ray player hooked up sounds alright, fare better then anything
new electronic stuff i have listened to up to 1200-1500$ region
My cousin thought a couple of years ago it may be time to upgrade his Bang &Olufsen Hi Fi stereo amplifier receiver, that he payed several of months hard earned cash fore back in the 70-is when we was youngsters, to something better and newer.
So he walks in to this " HiFi club " store and starts to look around when the shop manager ask if he can help him out bla bla bla
so my cousin tells him what he has a B&O bla bla bla and wants something newer at least in the same sound class, the shop manager tells him hi is sorry but they don't have anything in the shop that is better. He tells my cousin that he needs to com up over 6000$ to beat the sound of his B&O stereo, and he is willing to order something fore him. ???
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I tried every instrument and couldn't hold a beat for more than 2 minutes, even AC/DC on the drums. All the amps Jerred owned were tube type.
Not an amplifier story but I had a Marantz record player, radio, cassette player. It pushed a pair of stacked 15" Pioneers and a pair of 12" Bose. When I was a teenager dad broke a couple of knobs off when I had it up too loud. In all fairness he told me once not to have it that loud. It was old when I got it and lasted another 14 years of blasting anything I was in the mood for till the whole left channel quit.
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I've had Marantz and Fisher stuff over the years, as well as others. Right now, my home studio's music system consists of a Mackie 24 channel mixer ran through a BBM Sonic Control, then through a dual channel 32 band graphic EQ, then into a compressor/limiter, then into twin Yamaha amplifiers rated at 700/500 respectively. Speakers are 4 Yamaha PA speakers rated at 500/400 respectively. I can run any signal through the mixer board, so it doesn't matter if it's vinyl, MP3 or YouTube, I can play it.....loudly. ;D
Yeah, it's a bit of overkill, but that's what it takes to even get near a vintage 100 watt Marshall Plexi guitar amplifier. If you've never heard one of those live, you don't know what 100 watts is capable of!! :o
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Doug I knew you played guitar and fiddled with guitar amps. Saw you in a vid or two gitfiddlin' away in the past.
I dig that whole 60's / 70's sound (audio wise). I have recently discovered that sound again and am furiously researching/buying/fixing old stuff.
I haven't gotten into the older radios as you have but it certainly a logical step. Kinda like finishing my 60's cars then building a 30's deal.
I have just been struck at how complimentary and parallel the two hobbies are. Cars and music pretty much go together.
Right now I have a Marantz 2270 (looking for a 2325), Fischer 200 and 400, Luxman R 3055 running through JBL L80s (looking for some Klipsch Hereseys) and a Harmon Kardon T60C turntable. The Fisher 200 takes care of the garage and the others are in my living room.
Am constantly looking to upgrade and find new stuff. I've really only scratched the surface but I don't pass a garage sale without checking for gear.
And overkill is good.
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The '70s vintage home stereo stuff is probably the pinnacle of sound, in my opinion. The power transformers were massively heavy duty, and the capacitors and carbon resistors back then had a lot to do with the sound. Only problem is finding similar stuff to repair them with when the time comes. And it does come, eventually.
Yeah, I'm a bit of a tube amp buff...
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/cjshaker/DSCF0001.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/cjshaker/media/DSCF0001.jpg.html)
That little Gibson GA-20 RVT Minuteman amp to the far left (made about 1966), barely seen in the picture, is probably the sweetest sounding amp of any of them. It has a tube driven reverb that just absolutely blows anything away today. It can't even be described, you just have to hear how smooth and organic it is.
And I'm sorry you've seen some of my videos. There MAY have been some alcohol involved in those, so I'm going to use that excuse ;D
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I was briefly, and I emphasize briefly, into the stereo thing. This was back in high school, before the car bug bit me. Back then quadraphonic was the new thing, so I bought a Marantz quad system. It was fairly low power, only provided 30 watts per channel in stereo mode, and 12 watts per channel in quad mode, but I had some high efficiency speakers with it and it sounded great. Back then you had to have a couple of quadraphonic decoders, because there were two different competing technologies, SQ and CD-4. The SQ decoder fit into the bottom of the receiver, and the CD-4 system required a very high frequency cartridge for the turntable, with a frequency range of 20Hz to 45 KHz. The CD-4 system gave a truer quadraphonic signal but the most of the bands I listened to back then were recorded on SQ, so I used that setup more often.
The receiver also had a Dolby noise filter setup, with six different knobs to adjust the filtering, not just an on/off switch. It was fun screwing around with the adjustments to see how the sound varied.
For my 18th birthday my dad gave me his 67 Mustang fastback. Stereo? What stereo? I ended up selling all that stuff in the early 1990s; bet its worth a few bucks now...
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I have friends that are way into the electronics & audio deal (like epic level as in once running sound equipment for Nugent or the Fox Theater level...) and some of that kinda half heartedly rubs off on me. I am not really skilled or knowledgeable on that stuff but I am a fan.
For a family room stereo I have a +/-1981 Toshiba SA7100 receiver running against four restored Realistic "Mach One" speakers. It's enough power and enough cone area (15" woofers) to really annoy my wife and kids. Its really just a collection of stuff that I wanted back in college, and two of the Mach Ones were purchased with money from my first job out of school in about 1982. They must have made watts bigger back then because it decidedly blows away the fairly current home theater system despite similar power ratings....
I have a couple other old sound makers that I restored or acquired over the years. One is a Sonora phonograph from the early 1900s. The other is a really pretty 1937 Zenith radio. Only an 8 tube, but a very ornate cabinet. To confirm Doug's comments - one friend owns an absolutely stunning Scott - he has a large house literally filled with over a hundred cabinet radios, has perhaps fifty early Jeeps, and considers the Scott to be his prized possession.
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I have a Marantz receiver/amp I still listen to my tunes with. Had it so long it must be considered an antique. Had a problem with it about 10yrs ago. Didn't know if I should have it repaired or just replace it. Glad now I had it fixed. Back in the day I played my old Gibson Melody Maker thru an old Fender amp. The amp was old when I bought it. It was awesome. Still have the Gibson. Don't know what happened to the amp though. I think my brother sold it while after I was drafted. He won't admit it though.
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There is nothing made today that compares to a vintage tube guitar amp. The warmth of the sound and the sustain
is just not there.
I still have my Harmony H304A amp my parents gave me for Christmas 1966 along with the Harmony Silhouette/Bobcat guitar
and case. One of my ham radio buds went thru the amp and replaced a few bad capacitors with matching ones he found and this
thing sounds great. I had the guitar worked over by a local shop and I love it. People laugh when I tell them I wouldn't trade it
for a Les Paul. Scott Sharrard, whom was Gregg Allman's last guitarist had one he played when I saw him here April 6th 2016. I have a
picture of it sitting on the stage.
Also have an American made Fender Blues DeVille with 4 10's that has all vintage NOS tubes in it. It is sweet !
Nothing but tube amps for me. There are some things you just can't improve on.
garyv
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Back in the day I played my old Gibson Melody Maker thru an old Fender amp. The amp was old when I bought it. It was awesome. Still have the Gibson. Don't know what happened to the amp though. I think my brother sold it while after I was drafted. He won't admit it though.
That was a REALLY popular combo, and would be pretty valuable today.
Also have an American made Fender Blues DeVille with 4 10's that has all vintage NOS tubes in it. It is sweet !
Nothing but tube amps for me. There are some things you just can't improve on.
garyv
Ditto on that. Vintage tubes are worth BIG bucks, depending on the maker. I have a stash of vintage power and pre-amp tubes. They make a huge difference in sound and can be about as valuable as gold! For a while, Russia was about the only country still making tubes. Probably because much of their equipment was so 'outdated' that they still required them. Now, there are a few more makers, but Russia is still probably the leader. I have an old TV-7/U military tube tester that I use to match my tubes. Some guys take this stuff much more seriously than I do, but I do like tinkering with it, mostly in the winter months.
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While a bit less than "Hi-Fi", my 2 most prized possessions as far as audio goes...
A 1927 wind-up Sears & Roebuck turntable that my Grandparents bought new. I've got a couple hundred 78's to play on it, and it gets used regularly.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/cjshaker/IMAG4539.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/cjshaker/media/IMAG4539.jpg.html)
And the Atwater Kent that my Dad and I fixed up. After 40 years, it could use another refreshing. 3 tuning knobs makes it interesting to find stations on. I've compiled a list over the years, some as far away as 400-500 miles. They take a really extravagant antenna set-up to get really good signals, but they can really pull in the stations.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/cjshaker/IMAG4542.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/cjshaker/media/IMAG4542.jpg.html)
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here is my 1950 Bogen theater amp. It was a redundant 2 channel amp, so if one channel crapped out during a performance, you just flipped a switch & fired up the second channel. That made it real nice to convert to stereo. It is actually two separate mono block amps mounted on one chassis. The Medallion speakers come out of an auditorium. The amp was a $10 flea market find & the speakers were rescued from a dumpster.
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here is my 1950 Bogen theater amp. It was a redundant 2 channel amp, so if one channel crapped out during a performance, you just flipped a switch & fired up the second channel. That made it real nice to convert to stereo. It is actually two separate mono block amps mounted on one chassis. The Medallion speakers come out of an auditorium. The amp was a $10 flea market find & the speakers were rescued from a dumpster.
That is sweet! Look at the massive transformers on that thing. Even the output transformers are huge. Commercial stuff like that amp are built like a tank! Looks like it has 2 tone controls for each channel? If so, I'll bet that thing sounds pretty sweet with some good speakers.
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... the speakers were rescued from a dumpster.
So that was YOU! I was having a nice snooze on those speakers when you pushed me aside to swipe them. You're lucky the smell of rotten cabbage in my face isn't enough to wake me, or I would have delivered a sound thrashing upon your disrespectful self. Don't you know a man's home is his castle? shady, indeed.
Anyway, my dad was heavily into tube gear and had lots of them still in their boxes back in the 80's stashed in his garage. I moved to AZ in '91. He passed away in '98. When I went back to CA to help his clueless 2nd wife with funeral arrangements and such, I emptied the garage of old stuff he had that pre-dated his marriage to her. The tube stuff was all gone. I presume that, since he had embraced "modern" technology like the Carver Sonic Holography pre-amp and related, that tubes had become disposable.
So, I came back with lots of Carver gear, including two 100w RMS per amps still sealed in their boxes, several Harmon Kardon pieces, two Thorens turntables and a Yamaha automatic, and various other goods. So, nothing nifty and classic like you guys have.
As a tangent, I was in the forefront of the car audio business in the 80's when CD's first hit the market. I remember distinctly the almost instant creation of opposing camps, one which trumpeted sonic accuracy and one which embraced the oft-used "warmth" adjective. Ah, the Digital vs. Analog Wars. Over the next few years, I bought many of my favorite vinyl albums in CD format and decided that Digital did reveal more instrumental and vocal nuances as well as providing a more robust presence at both ends of the frequency spectrum.
So, was there an influence for this in the quagmire that passes for my brain? Well, when I was in 7th grade (1968) I had a music teacher name Mrs. McDonald, a corpulent yet animated woman whose son was a chopper gunner in the Nam, a fact she reminded us of daily with much hand-wringing and brow-wiping. (Understandable, of course). One day she brought in a record for us to listen to, a revolutionary new release called "Switched-On Bach", where his classic songs were performed by someone incorporating a Moog Synthesizer. As someone with a notable collection of classic vinyl pressings, she would wax poetic about the detail and accuracy of this recording compared to prior orchestral efforts.
Although I did not have a firm opinion on the matter, the seed she planted may have stuck with me for years. Hard to say how things like that work. My father, likewise, had a considerable collection of classic and opera recordings, many of which were breakable media created as far back as the 40's. I was raised hearing this music delivered through H-K Citation Series hardware. He was nice enough to suffer through playing my stuff, starting with "Beatles '65", my first album.
True to his new-tech nature, Dad did make the move to CD's eventually. When he passed I donated most of the CD's to his opera club, and kept the records. Still have them.
Sorry to have derailed this thread. Please resume your totally tubular discussion.
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Hmmm Not completely related but in the 80s i had this
really strange guy that turned up in my shop that wanted
me to cast a bronze disc for him and wondered if i know
of any lathe for sale. Anyway the specs on the casting
was.....lets say aerospace specs so i turned him down.
But curious as i am i asked what it was for...two hours
later he was finished explaining the stereo he was going to
build. With bronze turntable, granite housing to dampen
all vibrations and some ultra high tech electronics
and good knows what. That would give the
cleanest sound with no interference that would be a sales success
He started to turn up a couple of times a month and talked about his stereo he
was building and continued for a few years describing in detail
tubes versus transistors versus this and that... And what cars he was going to buy
when this stereo hit the market. then the CD came out
I haven't heard of him since that, May be he just bought a CD
Player or is still building on his ultra perfect stereo ???
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Figured I could add some pictures of my old stuff...more akin to FElony than Doug
I don't care much about sound quality - damn near deaf anyhow - but I still like loud!
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e135/Barry_R/20170416_072805_zpsm2fra2z5.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e135/Barry_R/20170416_072830_zpslbavlggp.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e135/Barry_R/20170416_072907_zps87uwcznh.jpg)
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Figured I could add some pictures of my old stuff...more akin to FElony than Doug
I don't care much about sound quality - damn near deaf anyhow - but I still like loud!
Actually, Barry, that Toshiba is something I would consider almost ideal for pure listening pleasure. Like I said before, you just can't beat that '70s stuff. I've had a couple of near identical Toshibas. I'd still be using it except a channel went out on my last one, and I never bothered to fix it. Lots of good stuff made in those years! Speakers may have progressed, but the only thing desirable about digital radios is being able to lock onto a stations frequency.
Felony, I've bounced back and forth over the digital vs analog debate. I've settled on the notion that, as far as input signals, digital really can't be beat. Tape has its issues (mostly hiss), records sound great the first few times you play them, but digital is clear and consistent. Where I deviate from the new is in the amplification. I prefer a high end tube amplifier, but the older transistor types are really fine as well. That's all concerning home use, but in a car, digital adds clarity in a world full of ambient noises that muddys the sound. CD and MP3 is really the way to go, there. At least in my opinion.
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There's another factor, Doug. The 80's saw a big upsurge in using synthesizers to make rapid percussion and bass transients for fast-beat dance music. Along came the new Class AB car amp, which was designed to control speaker cone movement accurately in both directions. This is a feat that I personally think tube amps fall short of.
My first CD was given to me by a stereo shop owner who had a bunch of promos sent to him. He didn't know the artist and neither did I. I didn't even have a player yet. I eventually bought one for the house, and boy was I in for a surprise. It had this track on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxBd2tGC44s which I played through these speakers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCmc84ZR9_k It eventually became a huge hit in the dance club scene (and yes I was there. Often). It was instrumental (pun) in the decision to add car stereo to my bag of tricks, as was until that point an alarm specialist.
The subwoofer "revolution" got followed by an increase in the quality and durability of car tweeters. Suddenly front staging became a thing, and my attention to this helped sales to the over-30 crowd, which was my chosen demographic (I refused to do business with the thump-thump kids). All I had to do was sit the customer in my demo car and play something like this, and the deal was done: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiFiagAgQV8&list=PLMX7UAzj7-dEBP4EL16L7kGgd7ceeCLFd (If you have time, listen to Bahkti Point, also from Burmer).
I could probably write a hundred posts about my experience in that era. Much like the points vs iggy modules, I had my own ideas that separated me from the herd. Now, all I can do is just moo.
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I like my Mesa Boogies best for amplification and sold my Vintage Fender amps , I agree about tubes verses Modlers , modlers along with Full Range Flat Response speakers have stepped the game up , Kemper and Axe Fx are pretty darn good/close to the originals, Line 6 Helix is right there with Kemper or Axe FX but I'll take my 3 channel Dual Recto with a Strymon Blue Sky any day over them
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Man, I've really got to get off this thread! Watching some of those speaker videos makes me want to get back into the "stereo" thing. Something I've set aside for quite a while to concentrate on other hobbies.
Felony, you're right about the AB amps, but I'll say proudly that I never got into the 'dance music' craze ;D And super crisp bass isn't really a requirement in my music tastes. I do like clarity though, and that's tough to do in a car environment. At the risk of sounding like one of those "thumpers", I've got twin 12" Boston subs in my GT, along with half a dozen Infinity cab speakers. Not for shear loudness, which it's capable of, but extreme clarity to overcome ambient noise. When (quadraphonic/surround sound) 4+ channel stereo systems came out, things got really interesting for home stereos, and eventually car systems, but in my opinion, it's something that still hasn't been realized to it's potential.
Probably the dumbest thing I've ever done is put a stereo in my Mach 1. I've never turned it on once, but the music is still loud and clear :)
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... I've got twin 12" Boston subs in my GT, along with half a dozen Infinity cab speakers. Not for shear loudness, which it's capable of, but extreme clarity to overcome ambient noise.
If you really want clarity, consider four 8-inch subs in a sealed box that would be smaller than what you may have now. It is my opinion that 10's and bigger have no business being in a passenger car, as the length of the frequencies they are more efficient at exceeds the length of the interior. Ever notice cars with "more" bass sound outside the car than inside?
I made a lot of money moving people away from the ubiquitous twin-12's that my competitors were pushing. The tech and related stories would take far more typing than I want to do, but I'll leave you with one.
Back then, Yamaha decided to enter the car stereo market. They invited me and others to a demo and seminar at the Queen Mary down in Long Beach, CA. The event was for both home and car businesses. The room was fairly large, and they had one of their home rigs playing. The low end percussion and bass was phenomenal in all ways. After we had been seated, the rep asked us to point to the subwoofer. We pointed to the speakers flanking the table. He pulled off the front covers to reveal that the speakers had, in fact, no subs loaded in them. Then he walked over to some rectangular module mounted on the wall, about 3-inches thick or so, that I would have guessed had something to do with the HVAC system on the ship. Lo and behold, he pulled the cover off that to uncover an array of twenty-four 4-inch drivers! That was the phenomenal sub. Another Yamaha guy proceeded to explain the science behind that piece, and all that stuck in my head.
Once in a while I put a single 10 in the back of a long vehicle like a van or Suburban, but for the most part it was 8's or 6.5 subs in certain enclosures with certain amps, always with 4-ohm loads. If you look around, some companies now make actual 4 and 5-inch car subs. 'Bout time. More drivers, more voice coils, faster cone response, more accurate bass and sub harmonics.
I've been out of the loop for several years now. Looking at YT vids to see what's what, I am appalled at the number of so-called stereo gurus that continue to jack around with huge subs driven at one or one-half ohm loads. They post vids that sound like shit and high-five each other over it, and the clubies in the comments section eat it up like Sugar Flakes with extra sugar on top. I am actually embarrassed over the whole ordeal.
Anyway, I'm looking at designing a system for my Crown Vic, but I have to get up to speed on current hardware. Vics have the gas tank upright behind the rear seat, so there will be some trickery involved. Or, I may just sacrifice the back seat, as I don't really need it.
Brainflash! Should I mount an old tube amp in a plexi enclosure in the trunk and claim that it's powering everything? How many people can I drive to Insanity Street with that? Tee hee hee?
Here's one of our old test tracks. If you don't have a sub attached to your computer you may not hear the low riffs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxMKE2xKZQg
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I inherited my father's Fisher stereo system. It was tubes and lots of very heavy transformers!!! Turn it on, wait a minute and everything would warm up and sounded awesome. I sold it on ebay about 15 yrs ago as I really didn't have any place to put it. I should have kept it?
A friend of mine was in the service back in the 80's. He was in Germany and bought this system(trying to recall name). It had 4 speakers the size of lazyboy chairs. You couldn't turn it up past 4-5 without plugging your ears. It was deafening. Klipsh? Something like that was on the speakers. I can't have anything stupid like that in the house with my bird. Don't think he would appreciate something that loud? At least he would be jealous if something could make more noise them him!!!
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Larry , they was probably Klipsh(spelling?) K Horns .... you guy's are really testing the memory bank , I had a Pioneer SX550 mid late 1976 , I like the old stuff too .... I have a pretty good tube assortment too
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The good news is Larry if you decide to replace the Fisher, for some reason Fisher prices have not gone whacky like Marantz, Pioneer, and a few others.
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Klipsch. They used to make awesome stuff. But I don't know what their stuff is like now.
Tube equipment is really nice, provided you can work on it or know someone who can when the time comes. If not, things can get expensive very quickly. And there are NOT very many people who know how or are willing to work on the stuff now. Like most things from the past, including our FE's, it's becoming a lost art. I used to know quite a few guys, all about my Dads age, that were pretty keen about working on this stuff. Now? I couldn't name anyone local who even has a clue.
I think the single best car stereo I ever heard was about 35 years ago. It was a typical Supertuner I receiver/player with a Bose speaker system that had a dedicated amp package. Only 4 4" speakers, but that thing sounded amazing. But that was when cars had real trunks, and that made a huge difference.
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When I started out as a tech in the early '70s, most everything still had tubes. As the then old-timers died off I would buy their equipment & tube stock, so I have a bunch but, a lot of the audio stuff I used up & man, has it become pricey on ebay. Trouble-shooting is almost impossible to learn from a book, it is an acquired skill learned thru practical experience. It's a shame it will go to the grave with me.
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Shady, luckily, there are still some dedicated people who are into this stuff. I belong to a couple Marshall and custom amp forums, mostly based on custom builds and replicas (because the originals are worth so much darn money now), and those guys are passionate about tube amps. It's pretty amazing what some guys come up with and the amount of information and advice that is freely given just to help other tube aficionados. Same goes for the vintage radio crowd. Still, the days of going to your local repair shop are long gone. And you're right, if you think FE parts are expensive, the price of 3 or 4 well branded NOS vintage EL34 tubes could buy you a mighty nice intake. Throw in a few pre-amp tubes and you could buy a nice stroker kit :o
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Seems to me that there would be some tube manufacturing equipment still floating around out there, or perhaps new/improved such could be easily made. Why do you think that nobody has gone into the repro tube market? If there is a dedicated following, it would seem to be a possibility. I mean, look at all the new parts for Flatheads these days...
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there is a big repro market. You can get just about any tube you want from china. like everything else that comes from there, the quality is hit or miss. Mainly miss. Russia was one of the last high quality manufactures, but their stuff is drying up.
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Seems to me that there would be some tube manufacturing equipment still floating around out there, or perhaps new/improved such could be easily made. Why do you think that nobody has gone into the repro tube market? If there is a dedicated following, it would seem to be a possibility. I mean, look at all the new parts for Flatheads these days...
Felony, the tube making process is much MUCH more difficult than you would imagine. If you don't have multi-million dollar machines, then it takes tons of trained labor. There is an hour long YouTube video floating around, of a vintage U.S. tube manufacturer from back in the '40s. Can't remember who it was, maybe RCA? But until I watched that, I had no idea what was involved in creating quality tubes. It really opened my eyes and explained why they are no longer made. Plus, throw in the coatings that are used in the processes and internal parts, add a dash of EPA, and you can imagine where that ends up in todays world.
Ok, took the time to find that video, and like usual my memory was only about 40% correct. It was Mullard (a VERY desirable vintage tube!) from the Blackburn plant in the U.K., and it was only a half hour. Still, a very eye opening video if you're into this sort of thing.
https://youtu.be/GDvF89Bh27Y
And like Shady said, China still makes them (no EPA, obviously), but the quality is nowhere near what is expected from audio people. I'm not sure, but I think Russia has completely quit making them, although they can still be found. And again, Shady is right, they are getting harder to find NOS. I have a stash of vintage EL34 and 12AX7 tubes, mostly Mullard and RCA with a few batches of Russian Svetlana, that I've bought over the years, enough to last me my lifetime. Overdriven guitar amps are very hard on power tubes, by nature. It's how you get the distortion that is coveted by rock players, so they have a limited lifespan. Pre-amp tubes will last a long time.
When most amps use 2 or 4 power tubes, and they should be replaced in sets, as well as matched in sets, you can see why tubes are such a big deal and why they dry up quickly. Not so much in radios, because they are not overdriven. The used tube market is a big market, but it's like throwing a dart at a dartboard (or your mother-in-law), blindfolded. You're lucky if you strike something usable.
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Seems to me that there would be some The used tube market is a big market, but it's like throwing a dart at a dartboard (or your mother-in-law), blindfolded. You're lucky if you strike something usable.
If my mother-in-law was in the general area you would have no problem hitting her with a tossed dart. Considering her girth, you would probably have a harder time not hitting her. But even if you hit her dead center target you would not be hitting anything useful...
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1971 Pioneer SX 9000 with a mechanical reverb in the house / LBJ speakers that sound horrible.....smirk.Garage has DLK Quarters (bookshelf) that were built just down the street.Also 70's vintage.Surprisingly impressive.All a person should need if your BUSY!!!
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Well, that Mullard video was interesting. I really couldn't follow the componentry, as I know diddly about tubes, but I am vastly entertained by footage of vintage assembly mechanisms. Despite the complexity, I'm sure much of it can be streamlined and automated while giving the best quality result. Where's there's a will...