FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: fryedaddy on May 21, 2017, 11:23:36 AM
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man you talk about stepping in a pile.i did.i had a great running 433 ,cj heads,pi intake.i changed over to bbm heads and rpm intake and i aint had nothing but smoke and troubles.i put the intake on twice because i thought i had a bad seal the first time,but i dont think thats the case.i knocked the bottom out of the rocker bolt holes with my too long stock rocker bolts so i had to use sealer on my rocker bolts.still smoking bad.if its not too much oil to the rockers i dont know what it is.wish i had left it alone and never bought the parts.if the heads are new will too much oil to the rocker still make it smoke?what to do
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You can pull all the plugs or hit the headers just off the heads with an infrared gun. The oil burners will be a little cooler. Either way if all are the same look at what they all have in common like PCV or intake to head being square.
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i dont have any restrictions to the rockers,would this help,oil is puddleing in the runners on every cylinder
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i dont have any restrictions to the rockers,would this help,oil is puddleing in the runners on every cylinder
I do not know BBM heads at all. Just offering some general trouble shooting sugestions. Are your head ports or intake ports puddling up? If oil is building up in the intake runners look at your PCV hose connection. If PCV is your problem it will have unusual oil saturation where it connects. Go to the sorce. You can pull the valve and plug the line. Hold your engine at cruising speed and warch to see if the oil rises too high. If you can see oil rise up your engine is not draining to the pan very well and the PCV is sucking oil into the intake.
Possible that some baffolds are missing and there is too much oil splash on your PCV valve.
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my pcv is on the pass side,its puddleing on both sides and smokes out both sides even when pcv is unhooked.my pcv is wet with oil and on the other side my oil cap is oily i cant see down in the oil cap hole because theres a piece of medal on the inside of the valve cover to prevent splash,but oil is going around the medal plate and oiling the pcv and the breather cap on the other side
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help on smoking issue
http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=4878.0
From the other post, When you unplugged and ran your car without PCV did you drive it for 10 miles? An oil saturated intake will take a while to pull all of the oil out of.
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i removed the intake and saw the oil in the heads.i got it out,put the intake back on and its doing it again.i bought a borescope and looked down in the intake runners and oil is still puddled in the heads
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Take that stupid PCV valve off, cap the nipples, and see what it does. Take it for a drive long enough to burn the residual oil out.
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i removed the intake and saw the oil in the heads.i got it out,put the intake back on and its doing it again.i bought a borescope and looked down in the intake runners and oil is still puddled in the heads
If the intake runners are clean it is probably an intake sealing issue. Next time the intake is off measure crushed thickness on the bottom and top of the intake gaskets. If your using Felpro make sure that the raised area that is supposed to crush is completely covered by the intake. Repprt your measurements here so one of the others can help.
Up till now Ford iron, Edelbrock and Offenhauser have always sealed for me. I hope my saying so does not ruin it.
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i took that stupid pcv valve off,blocked off the plug on the carb and valve cover and guess what.i took it for a ride and it just about completly quit smoking.can i leave the pcv off,the car gets limited use,a trip or two around the block,store,or a 5 to 10 mile ride down a winding country road.and an once in a while race
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i used eld. intake gasket,crush looked even
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You don't need it. Put a breather on both valve covers and roll with it.
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its hard to believe that the pcv could make it smoke that bad,there must be something else.i just put it back in the garage and it blowed out a big puff when i cranked it.could it really quit smoking after 10 miles of driving
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i took that stupid pcv valve off,blocked off the plug on the carb and valve cover and guess what.i took it for a ride and it just about completly quit smoking.can i leave the pcv off,the car gets limited use,a trip or two around the block,store,or a 5 to 10 mile ride down a winding country road.and an once in a while race
I would assume that a new designed head would have some of the old flaws fixed. Do the BBM heads have inlarged oil drains and alow for the drip tins?
Just a thought: Amoung many other things a PCV seems like a trivial thing but every little thing that we let slide on emissions makes it easier for politics to clamp down on the hobby.
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Well, they can only clamp down on it if he's in an area where they do emissions testing and he doesn't have it. :)
As for the BBM heads, the drains are sufficient and the drip tins are not necessary. I would look for another smoking gun: bad PCV valve, etc.
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PCV is not all about emissions. Having a stream of fresh, filtered air flowing through your crankcase keeps blowby and windage from contaminating your oil and will ultimately make the engine last longer. I've also noticed that cars running breathers tend to smell like fumes inside when driving and the smoke from breathers can make the engine bay filthy. Now that you have found the problem, sort out the PCV situation with new components, the parts are cheap and the system is simple.
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its a hotrod,i have allways smelled some kink of fumes.no ac,i just roll down the window.i put new eld valve covers on too,and my old pcv would not fit the new covers so i bought one that would fit but it may not be right for the engine
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PCV is not all about emissions. Having a stream of fresh, filtered air flowing through your crankcase keeps blowby and windage from contaminating your oil and will ultimately make the engine last longer. I've also noticed that cars running breathers tend to smell like fumes inside when driving and the smoke from breathers can make the engine bay filthy. Now that you have found the problem, sort out the PCV situation with new components, the parts are cheap and the system is simple.
You are correct. However it is a small pixle on the big picture. The problem is; Does any PCV look better than Offenhauser breathers on a FE powered Model T?
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Quite possible the pcv valve is just completely wrong, but drive it without it for a nice long drive and see if the smoke clears up. If not, you got something else going on. If so, then you can figure out what was wrong with the pcv or leave it off.
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Key things I've read -
- BBM heads with no oil restrictors
- Oil is pooling on the head
- You were running a PCV, and had oil pooling in the intake runners
- Rocker bolts punched through the head
- You have disconnected the PCV
A few questions -
- Assuming the rocker bolts punched into the intake port or the water jacket (I haven't had mine apart in a while so am not sure where the rocker stand bolts sit relative to the head internals) - have you made sure no metal made it into the cylinder? I note you don't mention having the heads off since you found out you had put the bolts through
- Are you running oiling pushrods?
- Where in the intake is the oil pooling - is it in the area of the PCV connection or is it near the port?
I am running BBM heads with restrictors in the oil passage and oiling pushrods. My heads get a LOT of oil - with a cordless drill turning the oil pump drive shaft I was able to empty the pan and fill the heads in under a minute. I regret having gone ahead with the rest of the assembly without addressing it then. I'm planning on dismounting the rockers and blocking the passage and relying on just the pushrods. We both need to get the oil getting into the heads under control.
My PCV hose to the back of the carb was wet with oil, but the carb side was clean when I took it off yesterday, but I'm very concerned about that much oil making it into the intake. For the time being I've closed off the vacuum port on the intake and will try to stuff a breather into the second valve cover.
It might be overreacting, but I'd be pulling the heads and inspecting for any loose metal coming off the bottoms of the rocker bolts, and cleaning up any rough metal.
It sucks, but you have to fix any problem before it becomes a disaster, then you can move on.
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my pushrods dont have oil holes.its raining now i will have to go for a long drive later,i know that the rockers are slinging alot of oil because oil drips from the caps of the valve covers when i take them off and the pcv had some drips on it oil is puddling in the head ports not the intake
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What rockers are you using again?
Even factory rockers will shoot oil straight up towards the roof of the valve cover.
If there is no oil in the pcv hose nor in the plenum of the intake, chances are it's not a pcv issue. You have to look upstream of where the oil is located.
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i have stock adj on it now,my harland sharps rocker end supports hit my head bolts and i took them off
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the oil was puddled on top of the intake valves
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See if you can see oil running down the stems.
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when i had the intake off it didnt look like it was comming down the stems,but im not sure
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I can show you a clear valve cover video of unrestricted factory rockers with a standard volume pump and no drip tins or tricks. At WOT on the dyno at 6000 rpm, the oil doesn't even get up to the spring locators.
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i have seen that video.i took my covers off a month ago with my cj heads and run it hard and all it did was a drop or two of oil was running down the shafts to the tins with no splash.i can take a cover off now and it will fly all over the fender in a second or two
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I can show you a clear valve cover video of unrestricted factory rockers with a standard volume pump and no drip tins or tricks. At WOT on the dyno at 6000 rpm, the oil doesn't even get up to the spring locators.
Did you build it with head studs?
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when it first started smoking after the head intake swap i noticed my rocker endstands were hitting my arp head bolts,holding them up off the head surface. the heads on these bolts stick up higher than stock bolts.so i thought ah ha.but i put my stock rockers back on and it still smoked.
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I can show you a clear valve cover video of unrestricted factory rockers with a standard volume pump and no drip tins or tricks. At WOT on the dyno at 6000 rpm, the oil doesn't even get up to the spring locators.
Did you build it with head studs?
Both ways. The one in the video had bolts. 5 quart front sump pan that had increasing oil pressure through the pull and ended up at about 68 psi at 6000.
It's a common combination. Head studs usually only go in aluminum blocks or race applications but even with HV pumps and oiling T&D rockers through pushrods, I don't have oil control problems.
I think most FE issues are with intake gasket installation or with misbehaving PCV valves.
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theres allways a chance i messed up on the intake gasket again,but i did the best i could and i thought it was ok.same issues both times
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Did your CJ heads have an oil restrictor in them?
Your intake is not dowel-pinned to the heads is it? I once had a dowel pin break through into an intake port and suck oil in. It smoked like crazy.
paulie
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i do have restrictors in my cj heads,and i had to pull that dowel out of the front of the block .the rpm intake dont have a hole for it
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Jay,if you read this im sorry for hogging up your site with my misfortunes
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I'm talking about different dowel pins. My intake manifold has dowel pins where it mates to the cylinder head. I don't think it's common to do that, but I thought I'd ask just in case.
I would try restricting the oil to rockers at the oil hole in the cylinder of your new BBM's. I don't know if that is the root cause, but it's so easy to try that you might as well try it. I like Jay's idea of filing a flat on a round rod and sticking it in there.
JMO,
paulie
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thats my next move Paulie.if that dont help i guess i may remove the intake again,try a different gasket,seal the hell out of it and see if that helps
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Jay,if you read this im sorry for hogging up your site with my misfortunes
No apology necessary, this is what the site is for...
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If its an auto,I've seen where a modulator has caused much haze.Had a special sent too. :-\
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If its an auto,I've seen where a modulator has caused much haze.Had a special sent too. :-\
it is an auto,i had my modulator line clog up with oil-trans fluid not long ago
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if my only problem was too much oil in the valve covers would it make it smoke or is this a sign of something else wrong.what im asking is can too much oil to the rockers make a engine smoke
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if its auto trans oil you can indicate it by the smell
smells different than engine oil
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if its auto trans fuel you can indicate it by the smell
smells different than engine oil
it is oil smoke,could too much oil to the rockers cause smoke
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You can only get so much oil in the rocker area before it runs down the pushrod holes or in between the ports in the intake with most manifolds.
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You can only get so much oil in the rocker area before it runs down the pushrod holes or in between the ports in the intake with most manifolds.
can i take that as a yes or no
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ok,maybe later
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"it is an auto,i had my modulator line clog up with oil-trans fluid not long ago"
If thats the case...remove the line and plug the vacuum port to the modulator.Take it for a spin shifting manually ....(you won't have high gear) or just leave it in second,and see if it clears up.
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i unhooked my modulator line today and blew threw it.it was clogged,but i did not get a chance to drive it today.i had the carb off today and i saw what looked like a drop or three of trans fluid in the bottom of the plenum.
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Sounds like you found the source. ;)
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i just got back in the house after getting my car out for a while.i cleared out my modulator line and put a new mod valve on,put breather caps on my valve covers,threw away my pcv.NOT A TRACE OF SMOKE,NOT EVEN A PUFF WHEN I CRANKED IT.many thanks to all my FE brothers on the forum who helped me solve this problem,hats off
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Awesome.....glad you figured it out.
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Awesome.....glad you figured it out.
thanks,Brent,you were the most help of all.thank you for your time and know how!
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I wasn't any help dude, the guys screaming modulator valve were the heroes.
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I wasn't any help dude, the guys screaming modulator valve were the heroes.
i pretty sure the pcv was sucking oil too.your the man who told me to get rid of it,plus you helped me eliminate other things,but thanks to those guys also.sometimes things take a while to figure out if im the only one thinking,so the more heads the better
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Just to clarify though, a PCV is a good thing for a street engine. If you can control the oil, it'd be wise to run it that way, it pulls moisture out, reduces pressure at part throttle saving gaskets, etc. Of course if you have it in an oil bath, it's not too helpful, but may want to consider figuring it out on the street after you enjoy the car a bit.
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Just to clarify though, a PCV is a good thing for a street engine. If you can control the oil, it'd be wise to run it that way, it pulls moisture out, reduces pressure at part throttle saving gaskets, etc. Of course if you have it in an oil bath, it's not too helpful, but may want to consider figuring it out on the street after you enjoy the car a bit.
its pretty much a racecar on the street.i change the oil every 500 miles anyway.its not like i take it on trips or drive it to work every day.i just get out and raise cane in it once in a while,never getting over 10 miles from my house.but i do plan on getting the oil under control and maybe hook the pvc back up
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glad you found it . I having been working on a 1945 willys jeep for an older fellow and the jeep has a stock pcv system on it . I did not know they went back that far . I guess in ww2 they did not want the enemy breathing bad air , before they shot them . thanks to all of our military in all of the wars and protecting our great country .
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A little off topic:
Military used PCV equipment for fording, not pollution. Ever follow a convoy of NG vehicles that has a gas powered truck in it? Smell them 2 miles away. Have a 1962 IHC built 5 ton (M139) w/ a 602 cid Continental which has a sealed PCV system in it; we use for a water truck. Gets gallons per mile not MPG. But will go almost anywhere on a jobsite without getting stuck.
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that is what I told the fellow I was working on the Jeep for . thought it might be for getting under water , not for smog , keep the water our of the engine , by not getting into breathers for the crankcase .