FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: fekbmax on April 18, 2017, 06:55:56 PM
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Thinking out loud.
Been using pro gram main caps for some time now when doing the cross bolt conversion. Have used several sets and i do think they are nice pieces but,,
I wonder if there is anything else available. Id like caps that had the cross bolt ears that sat flush with the pan rail kinda like most aftermarket blocks instead of dropped down like the pro gram caps. I think it would be eaiser to do the conversion that way and keep from having to get into so much of the main saddle webbing. Wondering if Jay or anyone else with the tools and equipment have thought abut making main caps. ???
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There was an outfit in St Louis (last time I looked) that had a different set-up for FE main caps. As I remember, they wanted you to send them the block for installation since the machining was quite involved. You might try Google.
KS
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I think your talking about the Bessel setup. Nice looking deal. I contacted hm a few months back, he said he sold the machine shop but thought the guy still had the specks for the caps. I'm wondering if they would sell the caps only. Be a fun project on an old block to see what it took.
(http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j387/fekbmax/20161017_145830_zpsfbomfs0y.png) (http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/fekbmax/media/20161017_145830_zpsfbomfs0y.png.html)
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Looks like the cross bolt pro grams have been un available for a while, they seem to have plenty of the reg 2 bolt caps though. I know theres got t be atleast a few guys needing and wanting a set of caps.
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Yes, Keith. That's what I was thinking about. I talked to him several years ago. At that time he WOULD sell a set of the caps but said that shipping the block and letting him do the work would likely be more cost effective as opposed to having someone unfamiliar with the work try to do the set-up and machining.
KS
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So nobody has been able to get a set of cross bolt caps for some time. I received a set direct from Pro-gram this past January. I had to wait a few weeks as they were out but had them on the production schedule. Something was different with them from all the pictures that I had seen. They were unfinished as in not coated. The ones I've looked at in pictures have like a black nitride finish. I called Pro-gram and they said that they don't do that any more because of expense. I bought that as a reasonable explanation. When I delivered them to the engine builder we were looking at them and he noticed that the sides where they fit down into the register for the cap is machined offset to one side. Below flush on one side and above flush on the other. The instructions say that they are supposed to be longer on one side than they other where you machine the block by the pan rail. Supposedly to only be able to install them one direction if used on rebuild. There is only .050 thou. offset which is enough to make it so you couldn't turn them around and fit the block. I'm no machinist but seems to me a goofy way of doing it. You would have to machine the bearing surface last. I guess my concern is did I get a set of 2nds they had laying around or worse yet some junk that I can't use. I assumed they were a quality product and wouldn't do something like that. I took some pictures of them, I will see if I can post them up.
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Here are a couple of pictures that I took. Just rough measuring them for reference. You can see the side right by my finger where the flat protrudes a little. It is recessed on the otherside
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I'm not a machinist either but to me that explanation seems sound and like a good idea, you don't want to be able to put the cap in backwards once it's been set up and line bored.......
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All the pro-gram caps i have ever used had the bearing tang register only on one side so there really shouldnt be much confusion as to which way to install it.
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Using a cast-in arrow (forward) and stamped numbers (#1-#5) would seem a lot better.
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Agreed on forward arrow.
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Any thoughts on the finish?
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I think the finish is just a protective coating, it comes right off. The caps on my race engine i had to cut down the hump for the main girdle, drill and tap for my oiling system, and when i cleaned them up it came right off so I'm thinking the finish really isn't that important. Maybe they got lazy or either they gave you a set right off the line before they sent them to finishing. I don't know about the cost thing, id bet that all there other caps are probably still getting the finish.
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I have some Program caps made over 10 years ago in my garage. It's not exactly pertinent to the conversation, but I would be happy to take some pictures of them if you want to see what they used to look like. Mine have the black coating on them.
paulie
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Using a cast-in arrow (forward) and stamped numbers (#1-#5) would seem a lot better.
They're a billet cap, "cast-in" is not possible since every surface is 100% machined. Still, it wouldn't be difficult to mark the cap somehow.
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Using a cast-in arrow (forward) and stamped numbers (#1-#5) would seem a lot better.
They're a billet cap, "cast-in" is not possible since every surface is 100% machined. Still, it wouldn't be difficult to mark the cap somehow.
Yes a BFH a number and arrow stamp would solve that