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FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: ChiefDanGeorge on March 14, 2017, 02:37:37 PM

Title: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: ChiefDanGeorge on March 14, 2017, 02:37:37 PM
I'm still in the process of building new motor(I am slooowwww, paranoid of making mistakes) but the motor in the wagon blew either a head or intake gasket. Found water in the oil and the idle vibration is really bad.
I'd like to fix the issue, but I don't want to do any machining on the heads. Would it be ok just to pull heads and replace gaskets as a temp fix? I'm hoping this kicks me into finishing the other motor, but I really don't want to screw something up rushing.
Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: Drew Pojedinec on March 14, 2017, 03:24:05 PM
Impossible to answer given the info you've provided.

If it was me.

-off with the valve covers.  inspect
-remove spark plugs.  inspect
-remove intake.  inspect
-finally get to the heads if nothing else seems obvious.
Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: ChiefDanGeorge on March 14, 2017, 03:30:09 PM
Sorry about the sparse info. Was on way to work meeting and haven't had much chance to do anything worthwhile, Just checked the oil and saw the milky white mix and first guess was a head gasket gave out.

Impossible to answer given the info you've provided.

If it was me.

-off with the valve covers.  inspect
-remove spark plugs.  inspect
-remove intake.  inspect
-finally get to the heads if nothing else seems obvious.
Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: machoneman on March 14, 2017, 03:32:46 PM
Compression test? Leak-down test? Could avoid a lot of work here it it;s just the intake gasket.
Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: unclewill on March 14, 2017, 09:19:11 PM
Removing the intake is a two hour job if you take your time.
Some tips to make it go faster:
Start draining the coolant first.
Clear a big table for parts.
Start at the top and work down.
Remove the brake booster and master cylinder.
Stuff the distributor hole with paper towels when you pull the intake and be ready to vac or soak up water from the intake valves and lifter valley immediately.

You can also remove one head at a time without disturbing the intake/carb/distributor, replacing all gaskets at once.  First 3 tips still apply.

Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: Drew Pojedinec on March 14, 2017, 10:13:31 PM
Should be fresh in your mind eh UncleWill :P 
Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: ChiefDanGeorge on March 15, 2017, 04:46:00 AM
Is there any check to do that would indicate the intake gasket is the one that failed and not a head gasket?
Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: Drew Pojedinec on March 15, 2017, 05:47:23 AM
Easiest way to figure that would be to first remove valve covers.
Pressure up coolant system while looking with a flashlight into the lifter valley for any signs of water running or leaking.  This won't be the easiest thing to spot.

If you remove the intake, I'd think it'd be obvious if the gasket had failed.

Compared to many other engine types, head gasket failure isn't *really* a common problem with the FE.  Sure it happens, but I would say it's typically something else.
Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: unclewill on March 15, 2017, 08:44:26 AM
Should be fresh in your mind eh UncleWill :P
Three times I've taken my intake off in the last two weeks!  I'm also getting really good at fishing out and replacing lifters with magnets.

One last tip - clean out ALL bolt holes before reassembly!  When a bolt hydraulics with oil, it will pull the threads right out - ask me how I know...
Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: Falcon67 on March 15, 2017, 09:34:10 AM
In my experience, if the decks were clean and the head gaskets new when installed, it's rare to have an issue.  Debris, contamination of the deck surface(s) or wrong bolt torque will cause an issue.  Head gasket issues will show up right off, they don't wait.  Intakes on the other had will lull you to sleep then ruin your day. ;) 

I have a Stant cooling system tester, bought off eBay.  It's the tool I use to pressure up and check engine/cooling system before ever sticking a motor in a car.  I was also just using it on the dragster cooling system for checks.  Id'd motor plate to pump gasket seal issues right off.  Worth every $ I paid for it.
Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: ChiefDanGeorge on March 15, 2017, 10:06:13 AM
Motor is original to car(63 Colony Park) and never rebuilt to my knowledge.
In my experience, if the decks were clean and the head gaskets new when installed, it's rare to have an issue.  Debris, contamination of the deck surface(s) or wrong bolt torque will cause an issue.  Head gasket issues will show up right off, they don't wait.  Intakes on the other had will lull you to sleep then ruin your day. ;) 

I have a Stant cooling system tester, bought off eBay.  It's the tool I use to pressure up and check engine/cooling system before ever sticking a motor in a car.  I was also just using it on the dragster cooling system for checks.  Id'd motor plate to pump gasket seal issues right off.  Worth every $ I paid for it.
Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: ericwevans on March 15, 2017, 11:55:51 AM
Should be fresh in your mind eh UncleWill :P
Three times I've taken my intake off in the last two weeks!  I'm also getting really good at fishing out and replacing lifters with magnets.

One last tip - clean out ALL bolt holes before reassembly!  When a bolt hydraulics with oil, it will pull the threads right out - ask me how I know...

Hope you're running an aluminum intake UncleWill and not being hard headed like me and continuing to run iron.   :P  I've had my intake off several times this year, the next time it comes off I'm buying an Edel.  :-)
Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: Joey120373 on March 15, 2017, 08:23:30 PM
There is a way to test the head gasket, at least partially.
There are chemical tests available that look for cumbustion chamber gasses in the radiator.

Used to use them all the time back in the day when I wrenched for a living, fluid is blue, turns yellow if the head gasket is blown.
Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: unclewill on March 15, 2017, 09:08:47 PM
Hope you're running an aluminum intake UncleWill and not being hard headed like me and continuing to run iron.   :P  I've had my intake off several times this year, the next time it comes off I'm buying an Edel.  :-)

Yea, it's aluminum.  I take the carb + intake off as a unit - don't try this with an iron intake!

Worst case scenario the wagon has a cracked block or head.  ChiefDanGeorge you should finish the new engine asap then swap.  Much easier than fixing the engine in the car then swapping anyway.
Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: ChiefDanGeorge on March 16, 2017, 07:44:18 AM
No doubt. This is my first build so I end up questioning my work all the time.
Worst case scenario the wagon has a cracked block or head.  ChiefDanGeorge you should finish the new engine asap then swap.  Much easier than fixing the engine in the car then swapping anyway.
Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: unclewill on March 16, 2017, 09:34:41 AM
What are the specs of your replacement engine?  It is for this car right?
Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: ChiefDanGeorge on March 16, 2017, 11:04:05 AM
It's a 390 to 390 swap.
New motor is stroked and will be around 430ci. NOthing too exotic other than Edelbrock heads.
What are the specs of your replacement engine?  It is for this car right?
Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: Heo on March 16, 2017, 12:48:32 PM
Take out the sparkplugs .If a plug is clean you have water leaking in
to that cyl . (running rough on idle i suspect water in cyl or compression lost)
 So you know what cyl to check for leaks, If its a cyl not
close to water on the intake its probably the headgasket. Sometimes the head bolts
gets brittle and snap of or loose clamping force and the gasket blows

Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: unclewill on March 16, 2017, 07:47:13 PM
Just build the long block everything else under the hood bolts on.

Where are you anyway?  is the short block finished?

Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: ChiefDanGeorge on March 17, 2017, 05:43:38 AM
In South Carolina. Short Block is finished. Getting ready to install timing cover, then it should be all work up top.
Just build the long block everything else under the hood bolts on.

Where are you anyway?  is the short block finished?
Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: unclewill on March 17, 2017, 08:29:20 AM
Sounds like you are almost there...
Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: unclewill on March 17, 2017, 12:52:53 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: ChiefDanGeorge on March 21, 2017, 04:42:10 PM
I think I may have been completely wrong about issue. Just pulled the plugs and found #6 was gummed up so badly there was no gap to jump. Cleaned it up and put it back in and car seems much better. Saw no evidence of water on plugs or the bit I could see in the chamber. Pulled valve covers, and while they definetly show their age, I really didn't see any milky white sludge. There was a bit, but I am wondering it that is from me not getting a good seal when I replaced cover gaskets.
Drove the car around and got temp up, then checked the dipstick. No evidence of water there either.
Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: 120mm on March 21, 2017, 11:21:31 PM
I think I may have been completely wrong about issue. Just pulled the plugs and found #6 was gummed up so badly there was no gap to jump. Cleaned it up and put it back in and car seems much better. Saw no evidence of water on plugs or the bit I could see in the chamber. Pulled valve covers, and while they definetly show their age, I really didn't see any milky white sludge. There was a bit, but I am wondering it that is from me not getting a good seal when I replaced cover gaskets.
Drove the car around and got temp up, then checked the dipstick. No evidence of water there either.

I had this happen before in a non-FE Toyota engine.

Freaked out when I saw the chocolate milk; after pulling the valve cover, changing the oil and the plugs, never saw it again.
Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: unclewill on March 22, 2017, 10:08:12 AM
What a relief! 
Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: ChiefDanGeorge on March 22, 2017, 11:04:50 AM
It's still got me in build mode for sure. Gotta get finished and engine swapped!

What a relief!
Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: unclewill on March 24, 2017, 02:23:03 PM
Watch that #6 cylinder, something is going on there.
Title: Re: Blew either head or intake gasket
Post by: ChiefDanGeorge on March 26, 2017, 06:11:54 AM
Oh, it's not pretty in the internals at all. The blowby is so bad I suspect the rings are just shot.

Watch that #6 cylinder, something is going on there.