FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: 428Marauder on December 13, 2016, 08:33:58 PM
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First off, apparently the motor needs to be raised to do this job:
http://vintage.mitchell1.com/PClubData/chassis/den73/V2D735182.pdf
That sucks. Second, I'm not sure what oil pan I should use. The current setup is a 7 quart. Not sure about anything else. In order to complete an oil change, the plug hole needed to be widened to remove the internal nut that had come loose and a temporary plug was installed. It leaks.
As far as the motor it is a 428 with a C6. Has the 1U crank, standard heads.
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What vehicle do you have? Do you know what brand of pan you have now? Do you have headers? What are you planning on doing with this vehicle? Stock motor or is it modified?
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It's a 1965 Mercury Marauder. No headers. Just a driver.
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Take the engine out.
Sounds like a big job.
Not really.
Everything you have to do to lift the engine you have to to do to remove the engine.
Safely that is.
You can rig up a scary way in the car and do a half assed job.
And believe me I have done it. ::)
Or you can do a real nice job and change a lot of those old gaskets that need
changing and feel much more confident when you are back on the road.
There is lots of help here if you need it.
Really it is only a couple of hand fulls of bolts and nuts.
And very basic wrenches.
And a lifting apprentice.
I'll get a picture of one I built for out doors and post it for you. lol
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I may end up hiring a mechanic to do it. First though, I need to figure out what the best replacement is.
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I haven't tried it on a full size car like yours, but it is often possible to change the oil pan without pulling the engine on a FE, but it is still an involved process. I did this on my Cyclone years ago, you need to remove the sway bar and anything that will interfere with pulling the oil pan forward past the crossmember underneath the engine. Remove the oil pan bolts and break the pan gasket seal, lower pan as much as you can at the front of the engine ( maybe a inch or so ) and remove the oil pump bolts, drop the oil pump into the oil pan, slide the whole works out forward. Re-assemble in reverse order. It can be tricky bolting the oil pump back up and getting the oil pump drive in place, and not to smear the gasket sealer while assembling, but it can be done.
As far as oil pans, you didn't say what you have, if it is the old Ford Muscle Parts pan they are a good pan with baffle, I would try to have it fixed if possible. For a new pan I like the Milodon #31130, it looks most like a original Ford pan. I think all the name brand extra capacity FE pans are fine, Moroso, Canton, etc. The "T" shaped pans sometimes interfere with headers, but since you didn't have those it's probably not a concern.
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Pretty much any FE style oil pan you want will fit.
The thing about doing the oil pan on the stand especially when
a change to a different style or make and pickup change maybe
is it is really easy to look in the little hole and check the depth
of the pickup. ;)
Not so easy in the car. ::)
The really cheap $50 pans are a little shallow compared to an old original.
After you take them out and put them back a few times it gets easier. ;)
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Pretty sure this is an old engine with org gaskets.
The front cover will need a cleaning also
so off comes the water pump.
The thing is pretty much naked then.
Bet ya the plastic gear is toast also.
Take it out. :)
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Or keep pouring oil in. :)
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I would make a new treaded insert in the lathe. That fits
in the hole, With a flange on the outside thats bigger than
the hole atleast 1/4 " all the way around. Then i clean upp
the oilpan and weld around the flange. With the car jacked up
on the side where the oil plug is. So any oil runs away
from the plug
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Heo has the best idea.
If you can have a mechanic/machinist make you a new plug
for the pan it may be a lot less everything.
The plastic gear is the cam sprocket, it is an aluminum sprocket with a plastic/nylon coating
on the teeth. It breaks off after a few decades.
You would be amazed at how many FE's run ok with the plastic in the oil pan. ???
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Ok, I agree with you guys that a repair is the way to go. Is there a patch panel that already exists with a drain plug and threads, etc? I guess it would not be hard to build one.
To be clear, whover built this engine (which supposedly has les than 5k on it) used an old oil pan and likely had a silimalr problem, so they welded a nut inside the oil pan to provide the new plug with threads. During my last oil change, those welds failed and we were left with a metal nut inside my oil pan that could not be removed without hammering out the hole to make it larger, so rethreading tricks you guys may know will not work here. I am going to have to weld in a new piece of metal with a new drain plug.
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Get a Kirkham billet pan. 2 piece. No need to pull engine.
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Get a Kirkham billet pan. 2 piece. No need to pull engine.
I am unable to find these. Do you have a link? Also, wouldn't I still need to lift the engine to remove the old pan?
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Ok, I agree with you guys that a repair is the way to go. Is there a patch panel that already exists with a drain plug and threads, etc? I guess it would not be hard to build one.
To be clear, whover built this engine (which supposedly has les than 5k on it) used an old oil pan and likely had a silimalr problem, so they welded a nut inside the oil pan to provide the new plug with threads. During my last oil change, those welds failed and we were left with a metal nut inside my oil pan that could not be removed without hammering out the hole to make it larger, so rethreading tricks you guys may know will not work here. I am going to have to weld in a new piece of metal with a new drain plug.
Im not talking about a rethread im talking about making a treaded bung with a flange in the lathe put it in the hole and weld it
or you could cut out a piece with the bung and plug of any old oilpan and weld it over the hole
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Yes, that is what I am saying needs done here. I was wondering if some kind of kit was available for this specific repair.
This might work?
http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_mercury_late/oil-pan-drain-plug-repair-kit-weld-in-type-for-original-pan-with-3-4-24-drain-plug-mercury.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid_search&utm_campaign=paid_search_google_pla&scid=scplp49-28461-1&sc_intid=49-28461-1&gclid=Cj0KEQiA-MPCBRCZ0q23tPGm6_8BEiQAgw_bAhEY3VCX46bJ1egV5zq9tDvhsVkmC2fyP5VuQ9XSWHsaAvIV8P8HAQ
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Also, I am guessing you need to let it drain real well to prevent an explosion.
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So the nut is still in the pan?
I say the pan must come off and changed.
It has past it's life. :)
How is not up to me either. ;)
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No the bung was pretty much destroyed in order to remove the nut.
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Yes, that is what I am saying needs done here. I was wondering if some kind of kit was available for this specific repair.
This might work?
http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_mercury_late/oil-pan-drain-plug-repair-kit-weld-in-type-for-original-pan-with-3-4-24-drain-plug-mercury.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid_search&utm_campaign=paid_search_google_pla&scid=scplp49-28461-1&sc_intid=49-28461-1&gclid=Cj0KEQiA-MPCBRCZ0q23tPGm6_8BEiQAgw_bAhEY3VCX46bJ1egV5zq9tDvhsVkmC2fyP5VuQ9XSWHsaAvIV8P8HAQ
Thats what im talking about.
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My crazy uncle is crashing at my place for awhile, but he does have a welder and knows how to weld. If he can put that in without the whole thing blowing up, that would be great.
Second best result would be it blows up and kills my crazy uncle.
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I did this on a 65 tbird in the driveway last year. Put the engine on TDC. Remove the transmission mount and fan shroud. Unbolt the motor mounts and place a big wood block under the pan and jack up the engine. If you jack it up just enough so the studs on the mounts are just engaged in the holes, but don't clear them, the motor will go back down easily. Put wood spacers in the gap opened up between the frame and the mounts. Remove the jack. I was able to unbolt and remove the pan without removing the oil pump or pickup. I did end up damaging the pan flange prying it off, so I replaced it with the $50 summit pan. It was the same size as the one that was on there, so there was no change.
When I did it, I used 2x4s as the spacers. This was too much and the engine position shifted and I ended up using a crowbar to pry the engine back forward so the motor mount studs would engage in the holes.
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Lift the engine by using a piece of 2X4 on end, over a jack. Place the end of the wood on the front pan flange. This makes sure that you don't deform the pan body.
KS
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I think I found a replacement on craigslist. Guy says the threads are not great though. Is there an oversized plug that will tap new threads?