FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => Non-FE Discussion Forum => Topic started by: thatdarncat on October 05, 2016, 01:33:48 PM
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A Ford wins the small block class on the first day of competition. CHI headed cleveland. Here's a link to Hot Rod ( Warning, the Hot Rod site can be a pain on some computers ):
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/engine-masters-2016-small-block-class-names-winner/
The vintage class ran yesterday, hopefully our members Royce and Ted did well, along with the Mummert team. No word yet on the results. Here's a link to the vintage entrants:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/oddball-vintage-engines-engine-masters-2016/
For anyone that missed it here's a link to Royce and Barry's pre-competition dyno results and discussion earlier here on the forum.
http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=4296.0;all
Barry's FE runs Thursday I believe.
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Ted Eaton for the win!
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Congrats to Ted!
And one of Royce's motors got an internet write-up today:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/forgotten-ford-big-block-makes-comeback-engine-masters-2016/
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I've been kind of disappointed in Hot Rods internet coverage of Engine Masters this year, it seems like the results are coming slowly. Maybe I'm just expecting more in this age of social media. Anyway, here's a link to the announcement of Ted Eaton's Y-Block win:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/ford-y-block-takes-vintage-class-win-engine-masters-2016/
I just had a phone call this morning from our local Y-Block Guru JC, who just got back from Engine Masters as part of Royce's team. It sounds like they all had a good time.
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Good showing for Ted!In reading about Royce's MEL,I didn't know that the heads had no combustion chambers.
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Kevin! Kudos to you for aggregating all the EM2016 links and results! :)
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The Nitrous class would have been fun to see, but we had to fly out yesterday. We had a good time. It was the first time I we got to meet many people in person that I have either talked to on the phone or interenet.
The motor ran like a top. We made one jet change and then worked on keeping temps under control. Needed to have a bit more steam early on but not much. 331 cu in. Pk power was 550hp Tq 482 our score was 2716.
Ted did a great job with his build and pulled out a 2785 score take the win. (Our motor didn't win, but the heads, manifold, and rockers did) so its good either way.
Royce gets the Iron Man award for making up about half the field with entries. I think hes on to something with his his MEL, gotta a lot of attention and showed some good power potential.
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Congrats to all that participated, really a heck of an ordeal to get all this done.
I really wish hotrod would give a little more press to the whole thing, as I for one would love to watch/read more about it.
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Congrats to Ted Eaton and the Mummert team.. They really showed how the Ford Y Block shines in this class..And to Barry R for soldiering on with the rules set against him and putting up a pretty good score and showing the excellence of Ford's engineering on a 60 year old engine..
I had a lot of fun but I will NEVER take more than one engine again.. Way too much chaos and stress lol
I was never a player for the 12K but then I knew that going in...
My Lincoln Y Block finished 4th. Same engine I ran last year with a different cam, intake and a new paint job and valve covers.
It is as solid as an anvil. I set the timing and made 12 pulls. no tuning, no hiccups, no leaks, nothing but solid performance.. I was able to hammer out 520 horse and 491 ft. lb. This engine has over 250 dyno pulls on it plus 2 years of drag strip duty. Never had any kind of parts failure. Of all my engines this is the one I am most proud of..
My Ford Y block finished 5th less than 10 points behind the Lincoln. This was a last minute deal to help fill the field and Jerry C was in charge of running it..I have run this engine in a race car in the past and it has made 500 horse on the R&R dyno.. It is 333 inches and currently is running a street cam with 235 /238 duration, not really ideal for the competition.. Still it made a good showing with peak numbers of 465 horse and 424 ft.lb
The engine that I built just for the EMC was a 1958 Edsel MEL 410. with a 4.25 bore and a 3.7 stroke it ended up at 420 inches. Heads and intake ported by Joe Craine. custom rods, pistons, and an aggressive roller cam. I was dreaming of 600 horse but probably was more realistic in the 575 range. Due to some last minute problems getting the right pistons , I barely made the show.. I received the correct pistons on the Wed before the show. Finished assembly on Thurs Fired it on Friday, painted it on Sat, and left for Ohio on Sunday. I had no idea how it would perform. The engine got a lot of attention due to it's obscurity and the flashy paint job.. I did a couple interviews with the Hot Rod staff and answered a lot of questions... When we finally got to the dyno I was nervous as a cat. First, I just hoped it would fire up, which it did. I set the timing at 34 and let it warm up, no drama so far.. We made the first pull and things looked good. Power came up on the second pull as the rings started to seat, but it developed a serious oil leak at the rear main. The officials examined it and I was allowed to proceed.. On the third pull, about 500 rpm into it I heard a unwelcome mechanical noise and the engine tone changes. Power was way down and it was obvious there was some kind of failure..At that point I called it a day. We had 3 pulls so it could post a score, even if it was a poor one. On my second pull I recorded peaks of 548 hp and 576 torque. The score for the 2nd pull exceeded the Lincoln Y Block score so I was on a trajectory for a 4th place finish.. There is a lot left in this engine . The failure turned out to be very FE like.. I pulled a rocker shaft bolt out of the threads in the head and it kicked out two push rods. The MEL uses the same type shaft rocker system as the FE along with the same strength issues. That will have to be rectified for next year. I have a full year to fix the problems and do some testing.. I hope to be invited back to compete again in 2017
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Great job Royce! That Edsel MEL is just cool, looking forward to seeing how much you can wring out of that engine once you get it completely dialed in - Jay
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I sat here with a big grin on my face, Royce. Way to go!
KS
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Really cool guys, congrats.
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Thought I'd throw up a few pics and a couple of videos of Royce's engines.
First, I'd like to say a heartfelt THANK YOU to Royce for inviting me to be on his team as a back-up helper in case he couldn't get enough guys to show up. I had a great time watching and being involved in the process! I would have loved to have helped more, but honestly, the Lincoln Y-block that I was there for absolutely ran perfectly and didn't require ANYthing in the form of changes or help. The engine ran perfectly, idled like a kitten and made 12 consecutive pulls, all in the 35 minute time frame!
First, I think you have to remember that this is a nearly stock engine as far as these types of entries go. Stock stroke on a stock crank, stock rods, iron heads, nothing very fancy. But the engine performed great! I congratulated Royce on such a smooth, reliable entry, and he very much deserves that. And the engine made 521 peak horsepower and 494 peak torque, a bit higher than Royce said. Maybe he picked the wrong data sheet to look at. The engine never dropped below 400 ft.lbs. torque through the entire pull and actually never dropped below 450 up to 6000rpms!
Here's a shot of Royce and Joe doing some last minute checks to make sure everything was ready to go. That's Ted Eaton in the background...
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/cjshaker/Royce%202.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/cjshaker/media/Royce%202.jpg.html)
Here's Royce checking the airflow coming through the dyno vent that feeds the carbs. It had never occured to me to use your head and hair to check the swirling effect. You can really learn some good tricks from these guys... ;D
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/cjshaker/Royce%201.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/cjshaker/media/Royce%201.jpg.html)
Here is a video of pull #9, which is shown overlayed with pull #8 at the end of the video. I'd like to point out and have everyone notice how easily this engine started EVERY time, and also notice the idle at 750 rpms. The engine idled like a kitten. You'd never know what it's power numbers were capable of by its idle note and characteristics. It's followed by a picture of the dyno map showing the great torque curve this engine has.
https://youtu.be/eY8RaNEzul8
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/cjshaker/Royce%204.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/cjshaker/media/Royce%204.jpg.html)
Steve Dulcich took a real interest in Royce's MEL engine, taking pictures and asking about the specs. Steve seemed like a real nice guy and easy to talk to. I chatted with him for a few minutes about Roadkill Garage, which him and Freiburger are in.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/cjshaker/Royce%206.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/cjshaker/media/Royce%206.jpg.html)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/cjshaker/Royce%205.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/cjshaker/media/Royce%205.jpg.html)
Here's a shot of Royce's MEL engine. Except for the carb, which could easily be covered up, it's a real sleeper looking engine, if you ask me.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/cjshaker/MEL.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/cjshaker/media/MEL.jpg.html)
Here's a shot of JoeDC and his son. I think they were trying to sabotage Ted Eaton's engine here, but it didn't work. Ted still made 603 HP, which was the first time documented that any stock port configuration Y-block had broke the 600 barrier! Way to go Ted! He's a great guy with some very good stories to tell. He also obviously knows how to make some power with these "outdated" engines!
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/cjshaker/Ted%201.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/cjshaker/media/Ted%201.jpg.html)
I'd also like to thank Royce again, for taking the time to contact my boss from work. They credited me the day as 'training' so I didn't have to burn my last vacation day. Although I gladly would have used any amount of days to be involved with his effort. Thank you, Royce, again, for inviting me to be involved. I had a great time!
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Thanks Doug
Really nice coverage.
Congrats again to all the participants.
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Great time at the EMC for me. My son came in for a couple of days, and had a blast participating with Royce's team and Ted. It was cool to meet Doug, who kinda stood at a distance at first just watching everything unfold, but joined in and helped. Sorry I didn't get more time to talk with you. Royce is a trooper with trying to jockey two entrants of his own for the first time at the event. They have changed the rules allowing a team to sponsor two engines. Also, there is a change allowing the winner to come back the following year in the same class with a different engine, but same style.
Joe-JDC
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Thank you Doug for the pictures. I was busy and ultimately didn't take as many pictures as I would have liked.
Five weeks ago I thought I was going to have to bow out of the competition due to not having connecting rods for the Y-Block combination I was planning on building. Joe Craine stepped up and offered to loan me his billet crank and h-beam rods sitting here for the Y that is being built for his '55 'Bird. While my original combination was going to be just shy of 401 cubic inches, Joe's crank and rods allowed me to come up with a 375 incher. Roughly about a quarter of an inch in stroke difference between the two cranks. As it turns out, the 375 incher ran quite well. The new fuel injection manifold designed by John and Geoff Mummert was still warm out of the molds when Joe received one for an initial examination. Joe called me saying it could use some additional work as which point I let him have a free hand in doing some interior mods to it. This manifold was originally designed to mount a throttle body to the front of it, some injectors in the sides and have a fuel injection manifold on your run of the mill Y. It's been modified to mount a pair of Holleys on the top either inline or sideways mounted. Initial testing had the carbs inline and when repositioning the carbs in a sideways orientation, there was no noted change in HP or TQ numbers. But jetting is definitely easier in the sideways format.
Being the number two engine to run during the competition, it pretty much puts a score up on the board that allows the remaining competitors to shoot for. As it turned out, the 2785 point score held out to the end.
As Royce mentioned, he brought three engines to this fight. And to make it more difficult, it's three different engine families. Great job by Royce and especially considering how fast the MEL engine was assembled during the prior week. Pistons arrive Wednesday, engine is assembled Thursday, and fireup on a test stand on Friday. That's incredible. While the rocker arm bolt failure on the MEL engine came after making a couple of good pulls at the Challenge, the potential of that engine is now evident.
That's my story and I'm sticking by it. Ted Eaton.
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Engine Masters posted a cool video of this years Vintage Class and some of their dyno pulls including our own hero's Royce B. And Ted E. Worth the view, here's the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr1z7iiBysk
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Very cool!
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Don't forget Geoff Mummert... It is his parts that make all that power
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Not surprised to hear that Ted Eaton won an engine challenge. Pretty cool to hear how much power he got from a Y block though. Just imagine an old Thunderbird with that under the hood.
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Back about 1958 or so, there was still a circle track at the Michigan State Fairgrounds at 8 Mile on the East side of Woodward. There was a race advertised between Corvettes and Thunderbirds. A whole raft of Corvettes showed up but only one T-bird. Let me suggest that you take a bit of time and look up the '57 Thunderbird called 'Battlebird'. Driven by Chuck Daigh, it had no trouble lapping the field within about two laps.
I was in the beginning of high school at the time and took the DSR bus from where we lived in East Dearborn. The crowd seemed to be quite chivverlay oriented and sneered and made snide comments about a Thunderbird with a long fairing behind the driver but quieted down a bit as soon as things got going. Battlebird was backed by FoMoCo so it probably had the very best of everything.
It'd be interesting to compare the engine in it with the best of today's offerings.
KS
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See the link below for lots of details on Barry's 2016 Engine Masters efforts:
http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=4396.0