FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: Autoholic on September 27, 2016, 10:22:07 PM
-
I was reading through some tech articles and I ran across one called the double nut technique. This is to remove or install studs. Finger tighten 2 nuts on the protruding stud (once you've installed the stud by hand) till they are in the middle. Then take 2 wrenches, and tighten them against each other. So you try to remove the bottom nut and tighten the top nut. This will cause them to be very tight against each other. Now you can tighten the stud by wrenching on the top nut or remove the stud by wrenching on the bottom nut.
I figured this was worth sharing. :)
-
That is the way I'm been installing studs for a long time.
The issue is torque values may be suspect due to minor locking nut movement .
Richard >>> FERoadster
-
How young are you? LOL That is one of the first tricks learned when doing work for yourself. Been doing that since the early '60s. Joe-JDC
-
Young, but hey you never know when someone doesn't know a method to do something. I figured many of you already know how to do this.
-
Here's a nifty socket design to install or remove studs. It has rollers inside to grip the stud without damaging it:
(http://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/diy-turbo-discussion-14/94120d1383834704-im-confused-about-how-these-manifold-turbo-studs-supposed-work-4pcs-1-2-dr-stud-extractor-socket-set-3119-aaronngu77-1010-30-aaronngu77@11.jpg)
The old-fashioned two-nut trick works just fine too...
-
Warren, I bought a set of those a long time ago, work great, also use the double nut trick a lot too.
-
Mechanics 101...lol
But you'll find that it doesn't always work as it should. Sometimes the nuts will still turn together. Often you can remedy this by flipping one or both nuts over, or just using a different nut. You won't find that trick until you get into Advanced Mechanics ;)
-
Studs should not be bottomed in a blind hole since it may 'cant' them slightly. This induces a bending moment in the stud when 'pulled' by the nut at the other end. One of the benefits of a stud is that it is truer to the threads in the hole.
KS
-
I'm actually glad autoholic brought this up because I'm about to install my very first set of studs ever.
I just never had the reason to use them in the past 'cause I never built a high hp motor.
Riddle me this as long as you guys are throwing out notes.
I've heard that a ball bearing at the bottom of the hole is a good thing to fight what Ken is talking about. Is this total bs or a good idea?
I can't believe that ARP or any maker builds a stud with this in the instructions.
-
The ballbearing is what i do when i use studs beacuse
I know that cured the problem with studs
Breaking when i worked as a repair man
In the heavy industri
-
I've always just installed studs finger tight unless instructed to do otherwise by the manufacturer. One example of that is the Shelby block, where they tell you to torque the studs to 10 ft-lbs. The reason for this is that the studs have a conical shape on the end that goes into the block, and a matching conical seat machined into the block itself, to center the stud. In most cases though I'd put the studs in with zero torque. I've never tried the ball bearing approach but if the hole in the block, or whatever, has a taper from a drill point at the bottom, seems like the ball bearing would help keep the stud centered if you did torque it.
Those sockets that Bill posted are pretty cool; where do you buy those?
-
Yes exactly.The ballbearing and conical
bottom of thehole center the stud when
you "preload" the studs
I have some sockets like that.From a Old
Repair shop i bought when they went belly
upp. I dont know who made them but i can
Check the manufacturer when im home next
Week some time
-
Working as a Millwright we never tighten studs more than hand tight and always make sure to use antiseize before installation. You should always remember 'who might be taking this apart again'
Another variation of the double nut is an extension nut and a short bolt with a rounded end, the bolt screws into the the extension nut and jams the top of the stud.
I've used a threaded tapered collets by snap on but the start at about 1/2" and go way bigger, you use impact guns on them.
If assembled as stated special tooling is rarely needed for disassembly.
-
I've never heard of the ball bearing idea. Anyone here with ball bearings beneath their studs?
-
The problem with using a ball bearing in the bottom of the hole is pressure when torquing may split the bottom of the hole. Most holes are drilled by machine to a preset depth, and if you put too large a ball bearing in there, you will crack through the housing bore of the hole. Common sense needed, but most holes have either a drilled hole or milled hole with the bottom being either drill shaped or flat. Same with thread cutting, you need to be careful when threading a hole with the wrong tip on the tap. A pointed tap will break through the bottom of the hole if you aren't careful. If a stud is designed for a torque value, then they usually have place to use a wrench of some type to tighten them to the desired torque value. When chasing threads is it always a good idea to use a tap with the flat end so that you can get as much depth as possible, and not break through from too much pressure on the tip. Joe-JDC
-
So it sounds like finger tight is the best method. The whole point for studs in the first place is to be able to torque down a nut from a relaxed state, so you only apply a vertical clamping stress. Bolts, when torqued down, also have a twisting force, which results in uneven loading because the tension isn't applied with the threads in a relaxed state. So you don't need to torque down a stud, you're relying on the strength of the threads anyways when torquing down a nut.
-
I think comon sense is always needed ;)
You dont "torque"the stud with a ball bearing
Just snug it down thight and you ofcause have
To chose the right size on the ball. Big enough
So the stud dont bottom out in the threads
And small enough so the stud dont engage
Enough threads
-
Jay, I got mine from MAC tools. I think Snap on carries them also.
-
Part of the answer lies in what the stud is being used for. For main studs, you wouldn't want to torque them. For low load areas, where the stud is meant to be a more permanent fixture, especially during disassembly, then tightening or torquing may be called for.
-
Part of the answer lies in what the stud is being used for. For main studs, you wouldn't want to torque them. For low load areas, where the stud is meant to be a more permanent fixture, especially during disassembly, then tightening or torquing may be called for.
Thats true... Use comon sense
-
Those sockets that Bill posted are pretty cool; where do you buy those?
Jay - They are made by a company in the UK called Sealey. There may be an equivalent in the USA, but you can buy them on Amazon UK and get them delivered here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-AK7232-Extractor-Go-Through-Ratcheting/dp/B004ZFD0KI/ref=sr_1_14/254-0643964-6701638?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1475159437&sr=1-14
-
Snap on has several variations, it was so long ago when I bought mine I was still working on Flatheads!
They are pricey today...
https://store.snapon.com/Cam-and-Wedge-Type-Stud-Removers-C675444.aspx
-
Since it was brought up I'll add to it. Chasing threads, I just recently discovered thread chasing taps. I had always used bottoming taps or starting taps in a pinch. Never cared for them because at times it deformed the threads and made the hole sloppy. But man what a difference thread chasing taps made. For those that don't have them, get a set.