FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: Nightmist66 on May 15, 2016, 12:36:53 PM
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Just stumbled across the ad on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-FE-Twin-Turbo-Manifolds-/282020411102?hash=item41a9b9f6de:g:pXUAAOSwaG9XInOq&vxp=mtr
Guess they're in full-on production now :D
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Just stumbled across the ad on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-FE-Twin-Turbo-Manifolds-/282020411102?hash=item41a9b9f6de:g:pXUAAOSwaG9XInOq&vxp=mtr
Guess they're in full-on production now :D
"This item has an extended handling time and a delivery estimate greater than 30 business days."
Not thinking that really qualifies as full-on production. I think they have a mold and they'll just build to order. I question whether that flat design is much better than just turning around some regular car/truck manifolds. That way at least you can position the turbos where you want, and have a better shot at clearing shock towers.
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I doubt those FE Turbo exhaust manifolds are "molded" or cast with all the weld seams on them. Looking at their Buick turbo kits there's a lot of obviously tubular piping leaving no doubt the Buicks are fabricated.
Would they be shooting themselves in the foot offering only the two bolt exhaust FE head flanges as far as sealing and applications?
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Guys, this fella is a member here. Why not ask him?
In the past we spoke and his thought regarding the manifold looking setup is based on this producing mild boost.
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Guys, this fella is a member here. Why not ask him?
In the past we spoke and his thought regarding the manifold looking setup is based on this producing mild boost.
He has been asked via this thread.
What is "mild"? Video? Chassis dyno? Suggested cam(s)? This is a topic I wish we would spend more time exploring. Think of all those thousands of low-compression 360's out there begging for a turbo. We can make EcoBoost 6.0's!!
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Cool, so do it.
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Sorry if I opened another can of worms……… :-[
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Nonsense. The problem is most people here do not want to stray from the status quo, or talk about things that have not been talked about to the point of tears.
That isn't the problem for me..... I have zero desire to put a twin turbo'd 360 in my Galaxie for restoration reasons.
When I get around to restoring my 76 F100 I very well may decide a 390 built to utilize turbo's is totally be something I want to do. I'm sure many other people have the same viewpoint regarding an engine that "appears" original. This is no doubt why the stroker kits are such a popular route to take. The engine i just built for my Galaxie totally looks the part.
Some people talk, some people do. :-)
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Guys, this fella is a member here. Why not ask him?
In the past we spoke and his thought regarding the manifold looking setup is based on this producing mild boost.
He has been asked via this thread.
What is "mild"? Video? Chassis dyno? Suggested cam(s)? This is a topic I wish we would spend more time exploring. Think of all those thousands of low-compression 360's out there begging for a turbo. We can make EcoBoost 6.0's!!
That would actually be pretty cool, putting a couple of small turbos on a 360 and delivering 7-8 pounds or so of boost. And using those exhaust manifolds would make it easy, a lot easier than building headers that were sturdy enough to mount a 20 pound turbo. It would be great in a truck, or a Galaxie for that matter.
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As Drew said, some people just talk. That's me, because I cannot stay focused on one vehicle long enough.
I think that can happen to all of us in one form or another usually due to time and financial responsibility. With that said I have pieced together a 360 from junk parts with twin turbos being the end result, custom mild regrind from Oregon Cam's with boost and LPG in mind is about the extent of the coolness tho. Currently sitting in the vehicle with a set of FT manifolds welded up and flipped upside down they should work well.
But time and money have me on hold at the moment but IT WILL HAPPEN! I just don't have an exact date, hopefully this summer. I already have to much time in it to let it die especially for something in my mind so cool.
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Carb issues aside, I do ponder one issue with using a "junkyard 360"
The 360 has a piston way down in the hole, wouldn't raising compression artificially with forced induction make the engine super prone to detonation?
I was thinking more that you'd want a piston zero decked with a deep dish and heads carved to match.
Of course I'm ignorant regarding turbo gasoline engines..... I deal with turbos and superchargers all the time but in diesels we don't really have detonation as an issue :P
I hear ya Felony on the project front.... I want this car and that car, etc.... it is a force of will for me to have two vehicles, but the obvious trade off is that the two vehicles are very nice due to me funneling all of my income to improving them.
However I can't imagine trying to turbo a shock tower car, I love my Galaxie and Truck and would hate to trade the engine bay room (tho a 64 Comet would look pretty fantastic)
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Carb issues aside, I do ponder one issue with using a "junkyard 360"
The 360 has a piston way down in the hole, wouldn't raising compression artificially with forced induction make the engine super prone to detonation?
I have read, but don't know firsthand, that boost creates enough turbulence that quench is much less of an issue, compared to a naturally aspirated engine.
paulie
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Carb issues aside, I do ponder one issue with using a "junkyard 360"
The 360 has a piston way down in the hole, wouldn't raising compression artificially with forced induction make the engine super prone to detonation?
That's actually not the way to look at forced induction. The effects of an increase in compression are not the same as adding boost. I have a friend who is a boosted engines specialist at Ford, and he explained it this way. When you increase compression ratio, you squeeze a given number of air/fuel molecules into a tighter space. When you add boost, you add more air and fuel molecules into the same space. The effects are not the same, although I don't have a clear explanation of why. Something about lower compression heating up the air/fuel charge less, I think...
Of course, usually with boost you also get heat, so that makes you more prone to detonation, not to mention less efficient. Regardless, though, if you add 7.3 pounds of boost to an engine that is at an 8:1 compression ratio, you will not suddenly be as detonation prone as if the engine was a naturally aspirated 12:1 engine. And you will make a lot more power than the 12:1 naturally aspirated engine.
Here are a few things I've learned about boosted engines based on my experience with my Vortech-supercharged FE:
- A good compression ratio for one of our engines, carbureted, with boost, is about 8.5:1
- A carburetor dedicated to a boosted application is a good investment. CSU carbs come to mind.
- Lots of lobe separation is good. I've used 114, and I have a set of cams for my turbo SOHC that have 116 LSA.
- Any tricks you do to help a naturally aspirated engine will also help a boosted engine. This includes head porting, lots of lift and duration, a good exhaust, etc. Compression ratio too, but with a carb, FE combustion chambers, etc., going much more than 8.5:1 is questionable.
- Intercoolers add power and decrease the tendencies towards detonation; they are a good investment if you can fit them in your package.
- Boosted engines like to run rich; shoot for an A/F ratio of 11.5:1 or so, at least a full point lower than a naturally aspirated engine.
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The addition of methanol to the equation as a chemical intercooler makes things much easier, in my experience. And the 'demand' aspect of the turbos also eases things. FWIW, I'd also skip right past the carburetor approach and go direct to EFI as well.
KS
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I think it is a good way to wake up a truck 390 or a 360. The pistons down the hole would not be the disadvantage it is non-blown. On blown nitro engines the pistons are commonly way down the bore and the full Hemi chamber has no quench pads.
Those manifolds may not look real swoopy but the turbos are more of a restriction to exhaust flow and those won't cost any power until you get way up there in boost, with HP beyond block strength.
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I think it is a good way to wake up a truck 390 or a 360. The pistons down the hole would not be the disadvantage it is non-blown. On blown nitro engines the pistons are commonly way down the bore and the full Hemi chamber has no quench pads.
Those manifolds may not look real swoopy but the turbos are more of a restriction to exhaust flow and those won't cost any power until you get way up there in boost, with HP beyond block strength.
OK, if you were doing a 360 with 8lbs of turbo, what would you do about rods and pistons and compression? Slow spool with one turbo, or quicker with two?
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So to answer your question. 2 smaller turbo's will "spool up" faster that one large one. A centrifugal pumps need speed to make pressure in the volute unlike a positive displacement pump I.E roots blower
I think 9 to 1 comp would work given the right cam
A forged crank,H beam rods & a forged dished piston should live given you have a good block to hold it all together
Might just see this come together soon
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Moderate boost (8 pounds max) should not require a dedicated rotating assembly. That much nominal boost will offer about 50% increase in power. Would you think a '300 HP' 390 would require a forged crank and pistons to get to 450 HP or would you simply improve the upper-end breathing ability?
I monkeyed with a 2300 Ford engine putting 22 pounds to it with a turbo and using a factory crank, rods and pistons. The head gasket finally gave up but the lower end looked just fine. I DID use a methanol spray on a Hobbs switch so that pump gas wasn't a problem.
KS