FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: fryedaddy on March 31, 2016, 09:25:39 PM
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i have a 66 428,its a c6me 7 liter block.i took it to the machine shop to get it checked out.the crank didnt need turning it was still well within spec,and the blocks bore was fine too.i was going to get it bored 30 over anyway just to clean it up.i heard the 66-c6me block has .110 thicker walls than a regular 428 or cobra-jet block.if this is the case can i have it bored to 4.25 and make a 427 out of it,or a 427 based stroker?
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I have never heard of the C6ME, or any 428 block having significantly thicker cylinder walls than any other 428 block. I have a couple C6ME 428 blocks and they have normal 428 cylinder walls. There are quite a few people on the FE Forums that have actual Ford engineering blueprints and I've never seen them post any information about thicker walls. In the "old" days it was common to just bore a block something like .030 over, pick some off the shelf pistons and be done with it, but these blocks are now 50 years old and getting pretty rare. Custom pistons are pretty easy to get now and often not much different in price, and off the shelf 428 pistons aren't as common as they used to be. My advice to anyone with a 428 is to only bore it the minimum to clean it up, which may be much less than .030. You are only limited on there being an available ring package, and there seem to be almost unlimited selections of those. 7 Litre Galaxies are a collectable car and keeping the original block as intact as possible is a good idea. Now days if you are looking for more performance with your rebuild getting more cubic inches with a stroker crank is the way to go.
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are you sure yours aint a c6me-a out of a t-bird.i think it was in the steve christ book in the blocks section of the fe motors.he said that the best bar none 428 block is a c6me out of a 7 litre galaxie.he said they have .110 thicker walls than a c6me-a block my dad had 2, 7 litre galaxies and i got the engine out of his wrecked parts car.i may be wrong about the cylinder walls if the book lied,but im 100% sure i read it.
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The Steve Christ book is well known for having a lot of bad info, but in this case I just quickly looked in my copy of the book and I don't see anywhere where he says the C6ME 7 Litre 428 block has thicker cylinder walls than any other 428. The only way to know for sure what you have is to have it sonic tested.
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i just looked in the steve christ book.that book does not say anything,it must be a different book i have.i will find it and post it when i find the right book.i even think i have read about this in more than one book.we will find out soon,because i know i read it many times.i may not be a pro but i read alot and i know i read that the 66 c6me block is bar none the best factory fe block.i think it was a blue book that said how to build a fe ford on the cover.come on guys i know some of you had to read this.i used to have alot of fast mustang and fabulous ford mags.back in the 80s,i may have to dig them out because i read it in an article in one of them years ago.
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If it was my standard bore 428, I would trust a hundred dollar sonic check more than an old magazine article or book. Get it checked and you'll find out how thick it really is. As Kevin said it's a rare valuable block, don't bore it more than you have too. Jmo.
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im not going to bore it out to 4.25,i was just wanting to know if it could be done,i know you cant bore a cj block to 4.25 but if what i read was true then maybe it could be done.i have been hooked on these fe motors like a drug addict for 40 years.i believe its true but i cant argue with everyone to try and prove it.maybe someone will verify it
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You can pretty much bank on the fact that no block will go to a 427 bore, except for a 427. I don't even like taking 390's to a 428 bore. Been there, done that, ruined more blocks than accomplishing anything else. Sonic tests are good but don't tell you everything...
If you want cubic inches, add a big stroke.
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i know all about thin cylinder walls,ive had FEs with all 8 cylinders sleeved.i was sure someone has heard of the 7 litre galaxie having thicker walls.o well,unless someone backs me up on this,i will just try to forget it
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Nope, never heard or read of any 428 block being any thicker than another one. I also can't see Ford doing anything special to make any 428 walls thicker since this was a run-of-the-mill engine block not originally intended for performance use, unlike the 427 block which was.
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Not trying to be a know-it-all but the 7 Litre car engines were not "special". Most show a "Q" for the engine code which is no different than the T-Birds, Mercs, and the rest of the big Fords. If anything, the CJ engines are a "better" block due to the slight casting changes made in '68 and up. Basically, all original factory 428s should not be bored any more than necessary, and usually no more than .030". But being Ford, you never know for sure. If you want a 427 bore, get a 427 block.
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i dont think the 7 litre blocks are special but i do believe they had thicker walls. hey Jay,what do you think
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The 428 block might have .110" thick walls at standard bore, but there are no factory 428 blocks that were capable of being bored that far over stock and still have enough material to run safely. Most 428 blocks are marginal at .040", and some can go .060" over with sonic testing. Some folks may fill the block with hard block, and then bore them that far, but they are depending on the hard block to keep them from splitting. Joe-JDC.
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If you find someone to back you up on the .110 thicker bores, then you'll just have 2 wrong people :)
If the bores were actually .110 thicker, that would be .220 added between 2 cylinders, and that isn't possible. Unfortunately, more often than not, what you read in print is simply not right. Jay and Barrys books are the exception to that.
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i think the article i read said the c6me-a is .110 thinner than the c6me is how it read it didnt say it was .110 thicker than the standard bore,it just said it was thicker than a c6me-a if i got someone to back me up it would be 3 wrong people not 2 what about the guy who wrote the story in the fabulous fords and exotic mustangs mag.
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Like said before, regardless of what anyone say or anything you read that anyone wrote,. The best thing to do is sonic map it and know what you have. I been taking D3 and D4TE truck blocks out to 4.130 and 4.140 bore for years as well as a Couple 391 FT blocks. Countless people say it can't or shouldn't be done, just as many say it can. Best thing you can do is sonic map it and find out for yourself what you really have. I'm willing to bet though that no 428 or any other FE or FT block could be taken out to a 427 bore. Less it just happens to be one of he freak blocks cast with the 427 cylinder's.
JMO.
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i believe you that no 428 block can be bored to 427,but i still think a c6me 428 block has thicker walls than a c6me-a 428 block.i have no intrest in trying to bore it that far.im just trying to verify the story that the c6me is thicker
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Unfortunately, more often than not, what you read in print is simply not right. Jay and Barrys books are the exception to that.
Amen, Brother!
JMO,
paulie
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i still have not heard from JAY or BARRY on this subject all i want to know is,is a 66 c6me block thicker
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We are crazy, stupid, unreal busy right now - - sorry that I can't really spend as much time on the various forums as I would like to. I really enjoy the back & forth and the question and answer stuff - I learn a heck of a lot from the shared experiences. Most of the time I am looking in at 11 at night or 5 in the morning (I'm having a slice of pepperoni right now and typing one-handed... :) )
With around 50 or so blocks sonic checked this past year I can tell you that I have had perhaps two 390s that could safely go to a 428 bore. That's it. One of those actually had a "C" scratch in the bell like a Cobra Jet even though it was a 390 bore. Split cylinder wall "standard bore" ebay 428s are the number two damaged goods engine that shows up here, right after the windowed 427s that show up on a regular basis.
I have no evidence of any 428 being thicker than any other. We have checked a lot of them, but not as often as 390s. The better ones do have the extra main web ala CJ....but the same walls.
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i guess i will let it go for now.if i can dig out my old books out of my barn i will post the article that read about the 66 428 c6me block.the guy who wrote about it was a engine builder in the 70s -90s
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I should add that the blocks I have taken to 4.130 or 4.140 have all been used for drag racing only and all were filled with hardblock to within 1" of the deck. A couple i even set up as reverse flow but never really seen any kind of benefits from it for drag racing purposes. Of course this much block fill wouldn't fly on any kind of Street cruiser, not even on a weekend cruiser, nor would anything much less than .125 wall thickness and a dam good cooling system.
The standard garden 428 I'm building now is at .010 (4.140) . it has decent cylinder walls but no third Webb. I'll take the thicker cylinders any time I can get them. The lack of the 3 web mains made it an easy choice to use the main girdle.
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for now im just going to be glad i have a spare 428 standard bore and standard crank in good rebuildable condition for future use.i have a 30 over 428 in my comet right now with less than 500 miles on it so if im lucky i can sit on this spare for a while,i think i may have 3 390s left,like a dummy i sold a gt 390 and a pi intake last summer at the fairlanes of america show in kingsport tn..that stuff is getting hard to find.i have a couple of rare intakes left,a 2 4 bbl and a 3 2bbl set up.i have had them since 1980 or so.i love this stuff but i cant run it all,but its nice to look at
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Hello fryedaddy this is chris in johnson city my phone# 930-6912 I can sonic map your block if you like.
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thanks Chris,if i do anything with it we can check it out.do you know Larry Sneed in Bristol.he has been doing my fe stuff for years,good guy,he has been drag racing fords since the 70s
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Yes Larry did the machine work on my 302 boss drag car back in 80s. I stop in and said hello 3 or 4 weeks ago. You said it Larry is a good guy.
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i think the c6me blocks were the police interceptor blocks which might explain it if they are thicker bores or better blocks,if i happened to be right,which it aint looking like with all the negative feedback.i know you cant go by the casting number alone but the pi blocks used this casting number
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i should have said something earlier about the 66 c6me being pi blocks
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the article i read said the pi,7 litre gal blocks had .050 thicker walls instead of the .110 i had thought,but according to this forum,that may not be true,but it said .050 instead of .110 thicker.either way i guess i read a bunch of bull in that article!
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Since your block is at the machine shop why don't you have a sonic test done ?This way you would know for sure .I have a std. bore 428 block from a t bird .If I ever build it I would try having it bored .015 .That would leave me able to have it bored another .015 if I damaged a cylinder .A sonic test will let you know just what you have it isn't so expensive .Our fe engines seem to be somewhat inconsistent with bore thickness .And don't forget c6me blocks came in more than 428 size .I have a 352 truck block that is presently at 4.050 .
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i guess i will let it go for now.if i can dig out my old books out of my barn i will post the article that read about the 66 428 c6me block.the guy who wrote about it was a engine builder in the 70s -90s
I think that the old engine builder stuff you read was a load of crap, written by an overzealous tech fellow, especially based upon the earlier dates (70's) that were mentioned.
Although the engine builder may have overbored any number of C6ME blocks that doesn't mean they had thick walls. Instead, they likely had scary thin wall thicknesses, especially between each bore, that he had zero knowledge of (no easy sonic testing way back then), he got lucky, and they were mild street builds. Bet a buck he never had any really high hp drag or track engines that would bust through a thin wall in a heartbeat!