FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => Non-FE Discussion Forum => Topic started by: thatdarncat on February 25, 2016, 06:31:32 PM
-
This subject is for the members that Drag Race - Bracket Race or other "dial" forms of drag racing, like Stock & Super Stock. If you haven't kept up on the new "Slew Rate" ignition & engine controls you may want to study up. These controls ( the MSD Grid is one ) are being used across the country and they give a definite advantage to the racer using them over those that don't have them. Right now there are generally no rules at most tracks preventing them from being used in "No Electronics" classes. Many tracks don't even have a clue about these. Locally we've been seeing a few racers who have installed these really winning in the Pro ET and No Electronics classes, as well as the Electronics classes. These devices can also be used on high horsepower cars to function as a form of traction control to further make them very consistent. I'm just trying to spread the word since many racers as well as track owners and tech officials are not aware how these are being used. Here's a link to an online article that explains the basics.
http://etdragracing.com/magazine/2014-autumn/dead-on-why-is-bracket-racing-the-only-form-of-racing-without-rules
-
I've always found Jok Nicholson's views and perspective thoughtful, this column no less so.
For better or worse, bracket racing is like most (if not all) motorsports -- as the technology evolves and the prize money goes up, the low-bucks operator gets squeezed out and the big player has to seek every possible advantage at ever increasing expense. Then the sanctioning body makes an effort to level the field and...presto!...pretty soon you have NASCAR's 'car of tomorrow' and drag racing main events that struggle to attract 16-car fields with race cars (funny cars, at any rate) that all look like anal suppositories.
Human nature at work I think..and the inevitable consequence of the engineering tendency to achieve homogeneity of design in the pursuit of perfection.
-
Other than line-loks for burnouts and rev limiters for engine safety, I hate any and ALL electronic "helpers". Data acquisition, trans brakes, programmable ignitions, delays, throttle stops and all the other gizmos are crutches that do the work that people used to have to figure out on a trial and error basis with their own mind and coordination...and be able to repeat it by themselves, run after run.
I realize it's denying technology, but it won't end until you reach a point where you just push a button....the car will stage, detect the lights, launch...and drive itself down the track. It's actually to that point now. All they do is steer the car. I also realize you can't just eliminate bunches of classes, and that fuel injection today needs electronic controls. Go ahead, keep those classes, but add classes that are old school. ONE car, ONE driver, and ZERO electronics except for a basic CD ignition with rev-limiter for engine safety. I'd even outlaw a 2 step. To make it easier, they could delay the light activation just a couple of seconds to let the driver get his RPM up where he wanted or just use the single stage.
But then again, I don't even like the idea of bracket racing. I guess it's just the "streeter" in me. You race a car, and the first one to the end wins. Period. I've never been able to swallow the idea of racing a clock. The whole purpose of tuning your car is to make it faster, not slow it down if you're running too fast. I do get what it's intended purpose is though, to make a variety of cars competitive with each other.
-
Drag racing is a pricey past time.
Even at our track/airport the box cars pretty much out number the no box in the fast ranks.
And it is rare to see a full on stick car pounding away.
I can see the reasoning behind it. It is a lot easier on the equipment and reduces the risk
of a catastrophic miss and destruction.
I'll be damned if I'm putting a box in my POS.
It's gear jamin all the way! ::)
-
this is just the tip of the iceberg. this stuff has ben going on for years. and they wonder why the car counts are dropping.
-
There was a poster on here awhile back that painted his aluminum heads to look stock, class requirement......there is a puller in my class with duals on his Suburban....don't get me started, Lol
Nick
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIomJKf-bdg For some folks it's a God sent device.For others it's straight from hell.
-
And here I don't even run one of those cheating automatic trans...
-
And here I don't even run one of those cheating automatic trans...
The "left" is proposing ALL people with auto's can now run Powder Puff.
-
And here I don't even run one of those cheating automatic trans...
Yes, it's a slippery slope isn't it? LOL.
I mainly wanted to make people aware of this. Many people race only occasionally, or don't race with a group of die hards who follow the latest technology and get discouraged when their good running car gets beat continually without realizing the person in the other lane has "help". I remember bracket racing when delay boxes first hit the market and initially there were no rules prohibiting them in any class. We had a few early adopters who were cleaning up even in the street classes before tracks finally started breaking things into "Electronics" and "No Electronics". I think the sanctioning bodies let that go on too long before taking some action. The same thing seems to be going on now. Many small tracks that often have volunteer help on race day are not even aware of this technology and it seems some of the bigger tracks are waiting for direction from NHRA / IHRA that hasn't happened.
-
its not doing to get better any time soon. think what you could do. drive by wire throttle, electronic shift auto trans. first install ground speed radar, gps, wheel speed sensors, transmission input sensor, tie all of this in to programmable ecu like a mega squirt ms3 pro. you can have, top speed limiter, full wheel speed traction control, run timer red and green lites to tell you if your are ahead or behind on the run. the wheel speed sensors and gps will figure exactly how far to go under power if I convert my car to efi all of this is easy. how can you prove that I am doing it unless I till you?
-
It's easy, a old tech carbed FE and a clutch pedal and manual shift gear box.
To moi real car fun is letting the clutch go at 5000 rpm and see what happens. :o
Pushing on a button has no thrill for me.
-
Its becoming like watching TV. Press a button and just watch :-\
-
check out these guys. www.umtrnorth.com
-
check out these guys. www.umtrnorth.com
I've actually been thinking about joining that organization. Probably not with the Mach 1, but with another car.
-
It's easy, a old tech carbed FE and a clutch pedal and manual shift gear box.
To moi real car fun is letting the clutch go at 5000 rpm and see what happens. :o
Pushing on a button has no thrill for me.
+1 on that :)
-
check out these guys. www.umtrnorth.com
I've actually been thinking about joining that organization. Probably not with the Mach 1, but with another car.
do it if you can. stick shift only classes are a lot of fun. ran a Ozark mountain super shifter race at Cedar Falls IA had a great time. a UMTR race is on my bucket list.
-
In the late 80's and early 90's Delay boxes where taking over , the NHRA banned them in bracket racing . I raced at MIR when it was NHRA, Royce Miller the track owner , got a better deal with IHRA and switched , they allowed delay boxes .
My foot braking didnt cut the mustard anymore
Hard to beat electronics
-
NHRA allows delay boxes in Super Pro. In division 4 (here) it's also allowed in Pro. They are not allowed in Pro (would then be a No Box class) at Pomona (termed "California rules"). Other than that, most divisions in both NHRA and IHRA allow everything in Top/Super Pro. Slew control is only part of it, check out starting line controls.
http://www.biondoracing.com/product/SLP.html
Below Super, you get No Box in all divisions and sometimes "Sportsman" which is supposed to be more footbrake. No Box allows most everything but the box- trans brake, two step, electric shift. However, tracks like ours that don't draw 200 cars on a weekend can't afford to run three big car classes, so it's primarily Box, NoBox, Jr, Bike and Street. Electric shifters are allowed in Street - every modern car only comes with electric shifters so why not. You don't see the younger set driving a stick car. Sorry, that's the way it is.
IMHO - having run as a footbrake car for 13 years years and being three time past No Box track champion, 6 times Summit Super Series champ, etc - all that junk means nothing unless you let it get in your head. On a good day I can bang lights right there with the Box cars and have no problem with fast door cars, roadsters, no box or box dragsters, etc. t-brake & two step is not an advantage, in fact after the t-brake was voted OK in Div 4 IHRA years back, lots of footbrake cars hooked one up - then later unhooked it or use it only to back up (pro brake). Why? Because they could not cut a light with it. The electric shift IMHO is a safety device - you can concentrate on driving, especially with a three speed. Once you get below around 7.50 in the 1/8, you need to be looking out the window and not at the tach. I'm building a RED 235" right now and plan to start out with footbrake. It came with a ProCube and we'll wire that up later after getting the car dialed in. I don't need fancy stuff to control my car, I use tire pressure, static timing adjustments, etc to work on reaction and consistency. If others think all the stuff is required, good - that sells parts.
I don't see any car counts going down because of all this, if the economy is decent they go up. 5 years ago, a "fast" footbrake car would be 6.50 or so, now there are plenty in the 5.50s. ProMods would run a blazing 4.50~4.60 here, now 80% of the Super Pro rails run that every weekend. And they don't tear down every race, they run like that all season. Takes a whale of a pile of cash to run 4.60s in a 1600 lb car. The Million draws a huge pile of cars, around here Noble OK, the Motorplex and us throw big money events that fill the pits with both box and no box cars. We usually draw about the same Box and No Box car counts and several run in both classes. You just have to pull the box out for No Box. Two run cards means more income for the track which is good if you want to take your high buck race car somewhere and have fun with it.
The biggest thing that will kill car counts here in the SW this year is the price of crude. Lots of these people work in oil field services and related industries - that has all been decimated by crude oil prices. Dollars flip over an average of at least 3 times, so one person idle can kill income for 2-3 others real quick. In an area where you maybe have 120,000 people in a 100 mile circle, that's a killer of everything.