FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: tomsfe64 on February 22, 2016, 01:02:05 PM
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I have a 64 galaxie with a 427 using the long tube iron headers. I tried to fit a later
ford starter but the iron header doesn't let the starter fit like the original long nose starter because of the bump on the side of the starter. What one will fit besides that long nose original type?
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I don't know if I have anything to help or not, but for discussion - I have a few sets of 427 long cast exhaust manifolds, both '63-'64 style and '65-67 style. One set I have of the '63-'64 manifolds was modified sometime in it's past ( a chunk was removed, turned around and re-welded back ). Here's a picture:
(http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff437/red0wl/427%20cast%20headers%20modified%20002%20rs.jpg) (http://s1235.photobucket.com/user/red0wl/media/427%20cast%20headers%20modified%20002%20rs.jpg.html)
I don't know why it was done, but when I read people mention issues with trying to use later style starters with early manifolds I thought maybe that was why. Meanwhile, going back in time here a few years to when Jay was doing his dyno testing of exhaust manifolds for his book, he was using a different set of my '63-'64 long cast headers on the dyno. I mentioned to him about my modified manifold and wondering if starter clearance might be why. Jay usually uses a mini-starter, but I remember us checking fit with a later style stock Ford starter and I thought we found the later starter fit fine. Now my memory isn't always perfect, maybe Jay remembers when we did this? Keep in mind this was with the non modified manifold. I think we also came to the conclusion that the area on my modified manifold wasn't near the starter, so the mystery remained.
One thought I have here - Jay uses a scattershield bellhousing on the dyno for a later starter - are you trying the later starter on the older style bellhousing? Is that even possible? I don't know. My thought just being maybe the starter is in a different spot.
I will say, even though the '63-'64 long manifolds are very similar to the '65-'67 long manifolds ( which used the later starter ) they aren't exactly the same. The cylinder #1 & #2 branch is kicked out a little bit on the later manifolds compared to the earlier manifolds. I don't know if it is even enough to show up on a picture. Maybe that gives some clearance?
One other thought - the bump on the starter should face upward ( toward the head ), and not outward ( toward the frame ). Is your starter "clocked" correctly?
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These are the three types I know of. Not sure what the application of the middle one or why Ford changed back and forth on the terminal location. Someone let me know on the years used so I can edit post.
Left 58-64 Middle ?-76 Right 65-?
(http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/white65ford/FE%20Parts/KIMG0350.jpg) (http://s1237.photobucket.com/user/white65ford/media/FE%20Parts/KIMG0350.jpg.html)
(http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/white65ford/FE%20Parts/KIMG0349.jpg) (http://s1237.photobucket.com/user/white65ford/media/FE%20Parts/KIMG0349.jpg.html)
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Kevin, the manifold was cut and rewelded like that to clear the started post. I did that to both sets of long manifolds I run. Both engines have later flywheels and starters which put the post into the header. I also have seen where a 351 housing was put on a FE 3 bolt housing and used. This has the post tang out in front of the starter and gives more clearance for the cable bolt.
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Kevin, the manifold was cut and rewelded like that to clear the started post. I did that to both sets of long manifolds I run. Both engines have later flywheels and starters which put the post into the header. I also have seen where a 351 housing was put on a FE 3 bolt housing and used. This has the post tang out in front of the starter and gives more clearance for the cable bolt.
Is the middle starter I have a Windsor modification?
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Hey Chris, I have a starter like your #2, it was listed for a 76 truck. JoeZ
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Hey Chris, I have a starter like your #2, it was listed for a 76 truck. JoeZ
Thanks.
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I have a scattershield that I cut a hole in for the early starter to fit. This works ok but changing the clutch is a pain because I can't pull the scatter shield off without pulling the engine. I wad hoping a later starter would clear the manifold.
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I am using a starter like the one in the middle of the picture, it has a connection that is off the brush end, rather than off the side of the case.
I'm using it in a '64 Galaxie 427 with the cast long tubes.
I can get the NAPA number later today, but if memory serves, it is for a '76 truck with a 390.
Here's a quick thread from the network 54 site:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/thread/1343514353
Mine works great, no clearance issues, just a bit of tweaking on the cable and terminal configuration. NAPA seems to have a good line of starters, as opposed to other 'house brand' parts.
I'll get you the number that I used and edit this post with it.
EDIT: The starter I used is a NAPA # 44-9204 and it is a ReMan unit (but still working great no hot start issues with 10.8 compression)
Here is a page from the Wilson ecatalog with some good cross references and a couple pics:
http://ecatalog.wilsonautoelectric.com/index.php/91-02-5821.html
Bill
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Thanks for the info.
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Thanks for the wilson catalog Bill. I bookmarked it. The search by attributes function should come in handy. The only thing it lacks is measurements. Later, Travis.