FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: Qikbbstang on December 01, 2015, 10:47:24 AM
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location and hopefully the some way I can get an idea on the reinforcing. I'm adamant about having a properly secured upper shoulder harness in the proper location installed. Lost a friend in high-school that died by the steel javelin. Have a 67 Tilt column and want to retain it.
I'm looking for a picture or group of pic's showing the location even an idea how FoMoCo did the backing etc. would be off the charts helpful. Mine's a fastback and presume it makes a difference.
Hopefully someone has a shoulder-harness 67-68 Fastback that's lacking a headliner they can provide a few pics of.
C7_PEGASUS at YAHOOOO dot coma
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I didn't even know they made any shoulder harness 67-8 Mustangs, except for the Shelbys, and those mounted on the roll bar, or behind the door in the case of the convertibles. Was there some requirement in California or something?
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My '67 Mustang GT fastback delivered new in Cal only had lap belts.
Bruce
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I believe Shoulder Belts were optional in 1968. They were not optional in 1967. (there's no place for factory to install them in body) 68s have the ability (location die stamped in sheetmetal and maybe maybe-not the female rectangular reinforcement plate) to factory install the optional belts.
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Google "1967 mustang seat belt rear mount"
(http://www.andoauto.com/Belt355-L.jpg)
(http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/attachments/classic-tech/358793d1403652003-65-3-point-front-seat-belts-68-coupe-seat-belt.jpg)
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Sure like this one. They're in the UK.
http://quickfitsbs.com/images/galleries/ford/ford-mustang-fastback-1967-front-seat-belt.jpg
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The shoulder harness was an option in 1967, check the last page of this link:
https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America/US/2013/11/18/1967_Mustang_Specs.pdf
The shoulder harness became standard in all Fords in 1968, per government safety standards. Ford knew this was coming when the '67-'68 Mustangs were being designed. The second picture Falcon67 posted shows the circled threaded insert for the shoulder harness. I believe all '67-'68 Mustang / Cougars ( except convertibles ) will have that threaded insert under the headliner.
The '67-'68 Shelby fastback rollbar has a tab there and bolts to the roof at that threaded insert. Jay's '68 Shelby is a convertible so it uses a different style rollbar.
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OK...please remember I am in BC Canada not the USA...Shoulder belts were not mandatory up here in 68.Very few Mustangs have them..
Also...I have done dozens of 67/68 Mustangs and "NONE" of them have the insert in the roof for the belts..
I have never heard of the belt option for 67..I took my shoulder belts out of my 68 years after I put them in because our seatbelt laws require you to wear them if you have them...They are a horrible design and a pain in the ass to use and to store..
If I wanted shoulder belts that bad I would just put a Shelby style roll bar in and use that style of belts..I have a 4 point system in the 67
Having survived a head on collision at full freeway speed 2 1/2 years ago It doesn't matter to me what you do.When its your time...its your time.....I had a 21 year old Ford truck and no air bags.He had a brand new Durango loaded with all the new safety features....I lived and he didn't.
I just don't see a single point non locking shoulder belt in a Mustang making me feel safer.....JMO
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The shoulder harness was an option in 1967, check the last page of this link:
https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America/US/2013/11/18/1967_Mustang_Specs.pdf
The shoulder harness became standard in all Fords in 1968, per government safety standards. Ford knew this was coming when the '67-'68 Mustangs were being designed. The second picture Falcon67 posted shows the circled threaded insert for the shoulder harness. I believe all '67-'68 Mustang / Cougars ( except convertibles ) will have that threaded insert under the headliner.
The '67-'68 Shelby fastback rollbar has a tab there and bolts to the roof at that threaded insert. Jay's '68 Shelby is a convertible so it uses a different style rollbar.
Kevin, are you sure the shoulder harnesses were standard in 68? I have one 68 fastback, and two 69 fastback Mustangs, and none of them had shoulder harnesses when I got them. I was under the impression that Mustangs didn't get shoulder harnesses until '71...
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Correction: I did take a 2nd look and found that yes, my car did have shoulder belts as I can see the harness anchor. Amazing!
My 1970 Mach 1, San Jose California built in early '70, did in fact (did not) have shoulder harnesses.
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You'll are making me work too hard on a Saturday morning lol. Follow the link here to the '68 Mustang new car brochure. Look to the right side under standard safety features and part way down the list. Note the quote "Here are some of the many safety features you will find in EVERY Ford built car in 1968". This same list is in every '68 Ford, Mercury & Lincoln brochure and similar lists in following years.
http://www.oldcarbrochures.org/NA/Ford_-Mustang/1968_Ford_Mustang/1968_Ford_Mustang_Brochure/1968-Mustang-15
My mom bought a new 1968 Cougar Feb 29th, 1968, I rode home in that car from the dealer and I still have it, it has shoulder belts. I also have the original sales receipt too with the options, no charge for shoulder belts. My dad used to get a new company car every year back then ( sadly almost always the cheapest full size Scrub ) And I remember that car had shoulder belts too. I was a kid into cars and stuff like shoulder belts, side marker lights, were big news back then. I've had 3 1968 Torino's ( still have one ), every one had shoulder belts. I had a '68 Galaxie once, it had shoulder belts. I can't answer for Canada, and I've certainly never seen every Mustang made, but I believe starting in 1968 they all came with shoulder belts JMO.
I will say as others have noted, they were generally a pain in the ass back then, often separate belts, chaffed your neck, etc. Rarely did anyone use them. They weren't retractable, they had an elastic strap that when the belts weren't in use was supposed to go around that clip on the headliner. After a couple years the elastic would stretch out and the belt would droop down in your way. They also had a rubber sheath the metal end was supposed to slip into, but again, after a couple years the rubber shrunk and you could never get the belt to tuck in there. It was not uncommon for people to remove the shoulder belts or just plain cut them off.
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More work involved. :P
I went out to the shed and got the picture of a 68 Fastback mounting hole.
This is my POS and I've own this car for a long time and when I first got it
still had the upper shoulder belts.
I installed 3 points in it about 2000 maybe? A while ago anyways.
It is a Canadian Fastback. Meaning sold new in Canada.
It is a standard black interior car.
The box of 3 points also.
I like the 3 points. The more you can do to stay in the seat the better your chance of
getting in another seat. jmho
Correction Robert. I was thinking of the 67 Fairlane mount. Which I have also fiddled around with.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/Seat%20Belt%20stuff/DSCN1611_zpsaysram6q.jpg) (http://s135.photobucket.com/user/ScotiaFE/media/Seat%20Belt%20stuff/DSCN1611_zpsaysram6q.jpg.html)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/Seat%20Belt%20stuff/DSCN1614_zpsaxejwnvz.jpg) (http://s135.photobucket.com/user/ScotiaFE/media/Seat%20Belt%20stuff/DSCN1614_zpsaxejwnvz.jpg.html)
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A friend had a70 fastback sold new in Sweden
It had 3point retractabel safetybelts
The belts was made in Sweden but had
FoMoCo on them and a Ford part number
C9 Z something.The belt roll was mounted
Down on the rocker, and the mount the belt
Slides through was mounted up in the roof
Like in the picture the whole instalation
Apeared to be factory instaled
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Interesting that they were factory, and none of the cars I bought (except my 68 Shelby) had them. People must have hated them and taken them out...
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In Sweden it is a law from 69 the cars
Must have 3 point harnes
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And most pre69 cars have lost there
Harneses even IF they had them from
Factory
Autoliv stil was the manufacturer
Of the belts in the 70 mustang
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Howie..those don't appear to be Mustang belts in the box...
I will dig out the paper work but shoulder belts were a option.If they were std factory stuff it wasn't until 1970.I have probably had at least 30 67/68 Mustangs and they didn't have them.My friends 69 SCJ Mach I doesn't have them either and the car has been in his family since 72..
I don't believe they were a option till 1968,same goes for headrests..
I will dig through some paper work
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Guys I've got a wanna-be Shelby type roll-bar w/o belt mounting. Have thought I did not want to bother mounting it, being tall I have been concerned about whacking the daylight's out of my head on it in a crash. I have to double check for any mounting stuff along the headliner sheet-metal, there was some die stamped rectangles/like flat sections but unless I'm crazy no threaded hole. I'll surely take pics next visit there. Mines a Sept 67 build from the FoMoCo New Jersey plant
Competition belts sounded like a real nightmare for a street car.
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Howie..those don't appear to be Mustang belts in the box...
I will dig out the paper work but shoulder belts were a option.If they were std factory stuff it wasn't until 1970.I have probably had at least 30 67/68 Mustangs and they didn't have them.My friends 69 SCJ Mach I doesn't have them either and the car has been in his family since 72..
I don't believe they were a option till 1968,same goes for headrests..
I will dig through some paper work
The belts in the box are not Ford belts.
They are from some spider web company that I have forgot who. :P
They where for BB to show him that it is not a big deal to put 3 point seat belts in his car.
This was the law beginning Jan 68
Standard 208
"Passenger Cars (Effective 1-1-68)
Lap or lap and shoulder seat belt assemblies for each designated seating position. Except in convertibles, lap and shoulder seat belt assemblies are required in each front outboard seating position."
I just know that my FB had the buckle down shoulder cross belts.
Still have the clips on the roof.
Even the most iconic 68 FB of all time, (excluding mine of course ::))
LT Bullitt's green thing, you can see the clip that holds the belt up on the roof.
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I never said I haven't seen a 68 with shoulder belts.I have and I still have the proper belts in a box along with a handful of the clips...
The bullit car was built in the first week or two of 1968 at the SJ plant.My 68 was built 3 weeks before (2nd week of dec 67) it at the same plant .My car does not have shoulder belts and never did.Nor did it have the inserts in the roof..
As production was half over by Jan 1 1968 it is not correct to say that shoulder belts in 1968 were a standard feature because they were not..
The Bullit car also has a deluxe interior.It is quite possible the box was checked off for the belts as well.1968 build sheets clearly show a separate box for the shoulder belts..
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This is what I have found so far. Starting in Jan. 1968, cars were federally mandated to have anchorages points for shoulder harnesses. Here is a quote from Hagerty Insurance web site.
"President Lyndon B. Johnson’s Highway Safety Act of 1966 was a landmark piece of federal legislation that gave Washington sweeping powers over car design. The act specified mandatory safety standards for 1968 models. In addition, the government “convinced” Detroit to add six standard safety features to all 1966 domestic cars that included seat belts. Starting in January 1968, lap-belt anchorages for each front and rear seating position and upper torso-belt anchorages at each forward facing outboard seating position were required. On January 1, 1972 , the same requirements went into effect for U.S.-built trucks."
Here is a link to a US Transportation report published in 1972 about laws requiring seat belts. From the way I read it, on page 9 it says that in 1968 only the state of Nevada and maybe Virginia were the only states requiring harness belts be installed.
http://ntl.bts.gov/lib/25000/25300/25318/DOT-HS-820-226.pdf
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Howie, Thanks for taking that pic showing the upper seat belt bolt hole w/reinforcement. My July build NJ fastback has no such animal..........something else stumps the crap out of me and that's your plastic coat hanger hook - mine had a chromed metal one almost like a "j"..
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The chrome coat hook is early stuff...If your car is july 66 built it may well have been installed at the factory.I am sure they would have just used what was in the bin..The two pc plastic hook is the norm for 67/68's