FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: WConley on November 26, 2015, 01:07:11 PM
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Hi guys -
My buddy Tim is building up a date code correct 428 CJ for his 1968 Cougar. This car is really rare and awesome - a factory sunroof R-Code XR-7 cat. Right now it's running a stroked medium riser with a built C-6 and 3:50 Currie axle.
He wants to go more correct for a potential sale down the road. The new engine will feature the following:
- Stock block with a 4.125" or 4.25" stroker kit, depending on how healthy the walls are.
- Stock heads with a good valve job and maybe a bowl cleanup.
- Lightweight Ross pistons to get near 10:1 for pump gas.
- Date-coded carburetor and intake.
- Hooker Super Comp Headers will stay on (date-coded exhaust manifolds stay in a box!)
- C-6 with wide-ratio gearset and 2400 stall converter.
- 3:50 Traction-Loc in correct 9" rear end assembly.
I've Talked Tim into a hydraulic roller, since this is just a fun street car that'll never see much north of 6,000 rpm. What do you guys think a good choice would be? We need good idle quality and vacuum, with a bit of a rumble. A wide torque band would be best for driveability. Figure CID will be in the mid - high 400 inch range, depending on the final stroke.
He'd like to end up with a no fuss, reliable weekend driver that will have no trouble lighting up a set of drag radials. Your suggestions would be most appreciated!
- Bill
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Bill, say hi to Tim for me. Here's my suggestion:
- Go with the 4.25" stroke and whatever piston you need to get 10.0:1 compression. 462 cubes.
- I'd waffle between two Comp hydraulic roller profiles, either the 3314 lobe (276 advertised, 224 @ .050", 0.590" lift), or the next step up which is the 3315 lobe (282 advertised, 230 @ .050", 0.595" lift). With the cubes I think I'd lean towards the 3315. Set it up with a 110 LSA, and a 106 ICL, which gives a DCR of about 7.9:1. Should have no fuel problems at that level, even with the cast iron heads.
- There seems to be general agreement that the Morel hydraulic rollers are the best; I'm a solid roller guy, but based on what I've read I think I'd go with the Morels.
Hope that helps. Happy Thanksgiving! Jay
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Thanks Jay! Best to you and yours as well. It's a blustery 61 in SoCal today ;)
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I think you want around 230 degrees @0.050". High .500's for lift. 112-114 lobe separation angle. Final displacement would move the duration a few degrees. Say 2-4 degrees. Go on the low side for your 4.125" engine or on the high side for your 4.25" engine. A little below or a little above 230 degrees on the intake side. Add about 6-8 degrees for the exhaust.
If I could dream up a hydraulic roller for this combo it would likely be something like 228/236@ 0.050", 284/290 advertised, .580"/.580" lift, 112 LSA, installed on a 107 ICL.
JMO,
paulie
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Thanks Paul! I see that's similar to Jay's Comp 3315 suggestion, but with less overlap. It will pull like a beast down low, but I wonder if the DCR will be high for iron heads on pump gas?
- Bill
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Paulies recommenation will have a lower DCR than Jay's due to a smidge more adv duration and later ICL
Either combo will work fine IMHO, Paulie's will likely idle a little milder with the wider LSA
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I am running this one with 462 cubes & everything else same as you describe except stock exhaust & and it makes plenty of vacuum & is very mild so I would go at least 230 deg
224/224 @ .050”, .616 lift, 104 ICL, 110 LSA.
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I don't use Thumpr cams, but I really like their individual lobes for FE hydraulic rollers. They seem to make good torque in my junk but they are not noisy.
I use a 227/233 cam a lot and I think it would be a good choice for this engine. They run at about .560-.570 lift and are easy on parts. It works well on a 110 LSA with a 104 ICL.
That particular cam made 425 hp and 460 lbft in a 428 with factory heads and intake. Plenty of vacuum, really torquey.
And yes, the Morel 5325 would be my lifter choice.
I can give you lobe numbers if you wish.
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I am running this one with 462 cubes & everything else same as you describe except stock exhaust & and it makes plenty of vacuum & is very mild so I would go at least 230 deg
224/224 @ .050”, .616 lift, 104 ICL, 110 LSA.
This engine made 515 TQ & 425 HP through iron exhaust manifolds with smog hooked up but won't blow the tires off >:(
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It should...
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Darn right it should. Something's wrong; gears maybe? Converter?
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Darn right it should. Something's wrong; gears maybe? Converter?
Con-vert-er. What's that? ::)
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Darn right it should. Something's wrong; gears maybe? Converter?
Yes it should. I was trying to illustrate that the OP's project could easily handle more cam. I don't mean to hijack the thread so will post info for input on my issues later in a separate thread.
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I'm feeling the love for that 230 number! I guess I shouldn't be too scared of the lower LSA numbers either, with all of those cubes.
Hell I got a 480" cammer to idle at 900 rpm with an 1150 Dominator once, and it was running a much bigger Comp grind:
272/ 272 @ 0.050", 106 ICL, 110 LSA, 0.605" lift. It pulled like a freight train down low, though I don't think it would make enough idle vacuum to open a Cougar's headlight doors ::)
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Just be mindful of the lobe designs, Bill. There are some hydraulic roller lobes out there that are a little aggressive and will put out a little noise. Some guys don't mind, some guys absolutely hate a little noise.
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I have a couple "go to" cams in my collection that seem to run well and give good behavior. As mentioned - some of the more aggressive ones can be kinda noisy- might be out of character for the car.
FWIW I would go with 276 282 224 230 .563 .563 110° if you want it be be stock "plus" sounding
I would look to 287 293 234 240 .594 .598 112° for a touch of "rock & roll"
First one would peak around 5500-5700, second around 5800-6000
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Thanks so much for the replies guys. Your experience and wisdom is much appreciated :) We have such good choices nowadays!
As far as a bit of noise, I don't think Tim will mind. The current engine has an aggressive solid roller, and it's just fine. (It's a little piece of history - built by Birdie and his crew about ten years ago!)