FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: turbohunter on August 23, 2015, 07:50:03 PM
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Have'nt used one.
Seems like a good idea.
Obviously not necessary, but is it a good idea for drag racing? Does it solve a non existent problem?
Have seen all the sales vids etc. but would like real world experience from you guys.
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You are flying through the traps at 140 or so, and then you hit the brakes. The oil runs away from your pickup and your oil pressure gauge goes to zero. You either A) Add more oil to try to cover the problem, B) Change to a dry sump, or C) Add an accumulator. The accumulator solves the problem instantly, and also allows you to give the engine oil pressure while cranking. I like them :D
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I hope I'm flying through at 140 ;)
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I recently went "flying" at 140 through a "trap". Life is so much more tasty at speed and Mustangs handle it very well.
I now know how I will enter the Gates of Heaven, at 200 MPH and everyone will hear me coming from a mile away. I'll say I was dying to get in.
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Cheap insurance. Well worth the have. Especially here in the southeast where lots of tracks have a short shutdown.
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I had a Mecca accumulator on my '63 F-100 ICB for years. I used it mostly as a pre-oiler and it contributed greatly to engine longevity in the mildly-modded 390. I strongly suggest that you put the electric valve on it for ease of use.
KS
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Thank you gentlemen.
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Devils Advocate I have my doubts about accumulators here's where I get my doubts. I always wondered how well an accumulator could work as advertised. When you think about the mechanicals involved particularly pressures in the precharge and engines max oil pressures.. If we have for example a 2-quart model, note it's called a "2-qt Capacity". First I have to wonder how much oil can actually be available for lubrication of an engine that's lost oil pressure from the pump. A 12.00" x 4.25" accumulation cylinder is rated at 2quarts.. A factor that supposedly adjusts the capability of how much oil can be injected into the motor is by what they call Precharge Pressure ranging from 4-60psi. .... Spend some time thinking about how much oil can be held and available for discharge in a 12.00" x 4.25" cylinder with an air bladder that is pre-pressurized (Precharge Pressure). How much oil can actually accumulate as the engine is run and the cylinder's volume is compressed by the engines oil pressure against an internal bladder to accumulate said volume of oil.
Point blank you are not filling a cylinder with 2qts of oil and then putting a gas blanket on top of the oil so that when a valve is actuated it can fully discharge all the oil from within the cylinder* - this method could in fact discharge the entire cylinder of oil. . Instead you have the engines oil pressure compressing the oil in a 2quart space against a precharge pressure. I believe precharging does not make much difference in how much oil is available to make up pressurize into an engine that lost oil pump pressure. If you start against a low prechage pressure you only have that much less volume you can compress into the accumulator under a given engine oil pressure.
Further unless I missed it there is not a restrictor/bleeding check valve that permits oil to be discharged at full rate into the motor and then recharged at a slow rate as oil pressure from the pump returns - in effect as oil pressure returns from the pump the oil is essentially re-filling both the accumulator AND oiling the motor, a 50/50 deal vs 100% of pump oil going into the motor. From what I see they only sell a one way check valve that simply prevents reverse-flow into the oil filter - something we all know is a disaster from a recent topic. Finally keep in mind all the ability of an accumulator to discharge its guts into an engines lube passages is on a wicked curve as the accumulator discharges oil it's available pressure to send out that oil drops like a rock.
Last I get the feeling the pre-charge pressure is kind of smoke & mirrors. IF you have 60lbs of precharge pressure in the bladder is it all that different if it starts at 5lbs precharge pressure vs 60lbs pressure?.......... there can not be all that significant an effect on oil volume going in/out of the accumulator when the bladder starts at 5psi vs 60psi precharge (think piston making pressure in engines cylinder) If you start at 60 psi a max oil pressure of 90psi is not going to offer that much volume under compression. All this under FoMoCo Muscle Parts stating the hi-perf FE pumps flow in excess of twenty repeat (20) gallons of oil per minute at 4,000rpm 70-80psi. How good is a quart or two?
* I sold Halon fire suppresion systems where a cylinder was filled with Halon (same low vapor/boiling point characteristics as Freon) and then a 360psi nitrogen charge (blanket) was added to the filled cylinder to be able to shove the low pressure Halon in liquid form up the syphon tube out of the vessel and on through the piping system to the fire. That's how you shove fluid into a critical situation.
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They actually don't have a bladder, BB, they are a free floating piston with an O-ring seal. The air behind the piston is pressurized to around 5 psi with the accumulator empty, and then the oil pump fills the accumulator with oil at the oil system pressure.
You know that the gpm rating of an oil pump is free flow, right? Not into an orifice? No way the engine will use anywhere near 22 gpm under any circumstances. I'd guess that a 2 quart accumulator would keep the engine oiled for at least 15-20 seconds, which is all anybody should ever need.
They just work. Trust me ( ;))
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Almost all the serious SCCA types and most open wheel racers do use a form of in-car accumulator. In IndyCar and F-1, due to weight, they have a neat canister on a rolling cart that has those fancy quick disconnect fittings. Before start-up, the line is snapped into an oil passage on the engine and a valve is opened. Once running, the valve is close and the fitting taken off.
Hey, if it's good enough for all these forms of racing engines......
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Found this vid pretty helpful in understanding the way they work and how they are constructed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyaGoj60A6s
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Absolutely know they have the floating piston (accu-sump site shows high prelube pressures) and understand Muscle Parts FORD GPM rating must be a design spec though a gerotor pump is positive displacement so there is virtually no reduction of flow from loading as with centrifugal pumps. As mentioned I've long pondered the 20+ GPM number and just come to believe it has to be recirculating internally within the pump big time- but why in the world would they "by the book" design a pump/lube system with so many friggen GPM???.... .Bypass/recirculating a FE oil pump internally likely does not use excessive power,,, maybe? Perhaps for quick recovery?...but I have no idea. The thought of a std auto filter even flowing 5GPM and trying to filter scares the hell out of me. It's got to be bypassing internally. Hard to comprehend many gallons flowing through an engines lube system. My engine builder mentioned watching a see into cut-away motor run where you could watch bearings and he was surprised at how much. Likewise I purposely scheduled my trip to the Circle Track Trade Show to witness Smokey run his Smoketron with strobes in the window pan that showed the blobs of oil slamming around the crankcase.
I got to chuckle at saying they use pre-lubers in all out race cars that obviously are dry sumps - hardly transferable to a wet sump.
BTW Jay the Fram HP1 is a race filter and has a much different filter rating then a std or Mobil 1 Filter.
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One must have a solid understanding about engines, let alone pre-lubing, dry or wet sump, to recognize what Jay is saying. I chuckle at.....those who don't!
Any engine benefits by using said device to avoid dry starts, especially racers that aren't fired up regularly. Many wet sump (Trans-Am clones, Euro cars, etc.) vehicles in SCCA competition are wet-sumped and cannot, by rule, have many modifications on their respective oiling systems. Yet the one mod that is allowed in all classes is an accumulator, both for starting and heavy G-force cornering.
One who had at least a rudimentary knowledge of racing in general would know these facts. Like Jay said....trust me! ;)
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I have the 3 qt accu-sump on my NSS 67 Fairlane, got it mainly to pre-oil as car sets between races. My road race friend saw it said good move, he said one lap without the accu-sump and engine is gone. In drags, front or rear pickup pan, pickup may get uncovered during run or on decell.
BB, sometimes one can overcomplicate things, just get one put it on and go racing!
These FE,s are too expensive to take the chance.
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You guys are doing a good job selling me on them, yet IF the FEs pumping capability is anything near the 24 gpm @ 4,000 rpm figure from FoMoCo a quart or two of pressure feed oil is gone through in a second or two at best right? ..............Jay you are far on the opposite side of the equation in your belief about "I'd guess that a 2 quart accumulator would keep the engine oiled for at least 15-20 seconds, which is all anybody should ever need."
Can anyone tell us how long it takes their specific sized accumulator to blow-down on just a hot engine/hot oil with a non-running motor?............
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Can anyone tell us how long it takes their specific sized accumulator to blow-down on just a hot engine/hot oil with a non-running motor?............
BB, watch Marc's video that he posted. It shows the rate or "time length" of flow. It lasts about as long as Jay said, depending on the pre-charge and how much oil is in the accumulator. The line and oil ports themselves are the restricter. One thing you can bet on, if lots of racers use them, they're using them for a reason. Those guys don't waste money/space and weight for nothing.
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I noticed the oil utilized in that Moroso Accumulator video was snake-oil. Obviously some people believe the video shows what really happens:
"BB, watch Marc's video that he posted. It shows the rate or "time length" of flow. It lasts about as long as Jay said, depending on the pre-charge and how much oil is in the accumulator. The line and oil ports themselves are the restricter. One thing you can bet on, if lots of racers use them, they're using them for a reason. Those guys don't waste money/space and weight for nothing."
What the video shows is pressurized reservoirs and un-pressured reservoirs hooked up and valve'd to an accumulator with what looks to be at least #8 lines. The genuine "restriction" of oil flowing into an engines bearings, rocker assemblies etc is not even in the Moroso equation. I think Moroso really cheese'd on the video by synthesizing what happens and not actually using a real engine . By their own demo the 3qt accumulator offers up only a 1-1/2qt of oil. The guy stating: "...a quart and a half and possibly another quart in the line" is absurd as if that's going to do something.
I searched youtube and found an import where its accumulater is discharged into an off engine and maintains pressure for 15-20 seconds, again into an off engine as the guy on the video stated. I learned using the on/off ign switch to actuate the valve you are likely going to be idling with low pressure and not have that 4,000rpm 80psi stored for starting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhRfUegqwxg
for purely shits and giggles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0T8MWYuugU
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BB, when I use the accumulator I rev up the engine to get the oil pressure up, then close the valve (I don't do this with the ignition switch, I do it separately), before shutting off the engine. Then you get good oil pressure inside the accumulator for a long pulse available during cranking.
Again, mostly what you are worried about is shut down at the drag strip, or corners on a road course. In all cases at the drag strip, and I imagine nearly all cases on a road course, you have the engine revved up pretty good (you are racing), so there is good oil pressure in the accumulator available in case of oil starvation at the pump pickup.
I know you are a skeptic ( ;)), but in this case I think your skepticism defies common sense.
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I have the 3 qt. with electric valve. Hot, I bring the rpm up get the max fill and PSI and shut off the valve, then the engine. Cold test, with the valve covers off, turn on the valve, within a few seconds oil at the rocker shafts. Normal cold startup switch on, PSI to 30-40, then when starts to fall off, then start engine and into staging lane.
Canton requires #10 line.
I have mine on the left apron, maybe gets some oil cooled outside the engine for a bit. I have it mainly for dry starts, any other pressure maintaining is a good thing.
An option for road race guys a pressure valve that opens at specified setting. to keep pressure up.
Many sanctioning bodys require a stock type wet pan, so this helps.
If you don,t like /believe in these, then don,t use/ buy them. Nice Mustang you have there.
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Well, I think Moroso was just trying to illustrate visually what happens in the unit so all levels of intelligence could grab the idea.
And of course in illustrating visually, sometimes you have to physically cheat a bit to try to make it obvious/simple.
So "cheesing out"was probably a necessity. Hey, I work in Hollywood, I'm used to cheese. 8)
But the more I studied the installation instructions of all the units, the more I like it.
My shade tree mechanic street smarts tells me it's a good thing.
Try this page on for size.
http://www.accusump.com/accusump_tech.html
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You guys are doing a good job selling me on them, yet IF the FEs pumping capability is anything near the 24 gpm @ 4,000 rpm figure from FoMoCo a quart or two of pressure feed oil is gone through in a second or two at best right? ..............Jay you are far on the opposite side of the equation in your belief about "I'd guess that a 2 quart accumulator would keep the engine oiled for at least 15-20 seconds, which is all anybody should ever need."
Can anyone tell us how long it takes their specific sized accumulator to blow-down on just a hot engine/hot oil with a non-running motor?............
Yes, BB---
On my 390 in the truck, the pressure held for at least 15-20 seconds before the gauge began to drop and it didn't go to nothing for at least another 15-20 seconds. This in an engine with about 100K miles. I did do a bearing replacement before using it as a DD. Although the removed bearings looked OK, I figured the replacement was good insurance.
KS
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I noticed it seems like BB is getting hung up on the flow rate of the oil pump, at least as part of his problem. The oil pump is not fed from the oil filter or oil accumulator, so its flow rate has little to do with this. It won't be consuming any oil from the oil accumulator, at least not directly. So the rate at which the accumulator oils the engine has no impact on the oil pump during loss of pressure, or how much oil the accumulator can provide for that matter. Remember, the oil pump pickup is in the oil pan, full of oil at start up. While running whenever it loses oil supply, the accumulator still has no impact on the oil pump. If you were to lose oil pressure for more than a minute, an oil accumulator wouldn't be able to help you out but a minute is a rather long amount of time when dealing with an engine, even during start up. Oil temperature is a different story and this is where the cold oil grade comes into play.
A quarter mile run is over inside 15 seconds, a hard corner on a track, with braking and accelerating, lasts less than 10. In 30 seconds at 6000 RPM, you're engine has turned over 3000 times. In 1 second, 100 times. At say 1000 rpm idle and start up, your engine turns over 17 times a second. The rate at which the oil moves from the accumulator to the engine will be determined by two things: The precharge pressure and the cold viscosity of your oil. I wouldn't rely on the hot viscosity because oil in the accumulator will not always be at operating temperature. 80-90% of the wear on your engine happens when the oil is not up to temp, which is mainly cold starts when the engine is dry. At idle, your engine only needs about 10 psi of oil pressure, per the 10 psi of pressure per 1000 rpm rule.
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I think I finally got the math (if I did it correctly?...) where I can buy into what's going on. If the typical 3Qt accumulator holds and flows 1-1/2 Qts of oil in as mentioned 10-15seconds that's in the relm of 6-9 GPM flow through the motor. I can more then live with that 6-9GPM figure though it seems high. One time when I spoke with an engineer at one of the oil filter companies that told me a standard sized FL1A filter could be counted on to keep up with a standard duty oil pump, but the filter would be into bypass often with a high volume pump.
I think of pumping 5GPM through a typical spin on and cringe, that's as much as my 1/2HP well pump puts out and thinking about that much flow with the viscosity of even multi-weight oils flowing through a "nominally rated" oil filter is bound to build up delta-pressure.
More then ever the wacky 20GPM+ "spec" figures of Ford Hi-Perf FE oil pumps is tough to figure why build in so much excess capacity?
would be hard pressed keep up with the flow
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More then ever the wacky 20GPM+ "spec" figures of Ford Hi-Perf FE oil pumps is tough to figure why build in so much excess capacity?
BB,
You know a ton about filters, this is true, but it is apparent that you aren't all that savy on pumps.
The 20gpm figure you are getting is not at pressure through an engine, never was. It's most certainly a free flow situation. Add the bearing clearances into it and you've got a pressurized system that leaks excessively.
Due to varying conditions in an engine (bearing clearances due to temperature, rpm, et el) any pumps is going to be oversized on free flow in order to maintain pressure in a leaking system. If a 20gpm pump inside an engine ever saw 20gpm it would mean you have zero oil pressure, which is obviously an undesirable situation in an engine.
This isn't that far removed from the 1/2hp well that claims to pump 20gpm at zero lift/zero head (the 5gpm you stated is really small). It *can* produce that kind of flow with zero restriction, zero friction loss in the piping, etc. In reality your 20gpm pump never pumps more than 8-10gpm. If it was pumping 20gpm the piping (if pvc) would need to be 1.5inch just to keep flow speeds under 5ft per second. More likely you have 1 inch piping which would be hitting that speed at 12gpm... in the case you have 3/4 inch piping you'd be hitting that speed at 8gpm. In those systems it's important to stay under that flow speed because the frictional losses go up exponentially once you get near that flow rate.
thus.......
If you wanted 20gpm at 45psi from your well, you would ideally have a 3hp pump with a 1.5 or larger discharge piping and 2inch suction line.
Along the same lines, if you want ample flow and 60psi of oil pressure from an engine, you better be pumping ten times more oil into it than it can leak out.
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On another note, as a filter man, you MUST realize that in an engine, an oil filter doesn't have to deal with pressure on one side only.....
If you think that, you should really get a gauge and put it on each side of a filter sometime.
With industrial engines I only ever really care what the pressure differential is.
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I'm not necessarily agreeing with BB, but I've heard him say "Delta P" enough times to think that he knows the pressure differential is key. Let's see what he says.
paulie
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the viscosity of even multi-weight oils flowing through a "nominally rated" oil filter is bound to build up delta-pressure.
-BB
Yes, but him saying that, to me either means that 1. He doesn't actually understand the term, (unlikely considering his profession). or 2. He has never checked on a running engine.
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I think what Drew was pointing out was that filters have pressure on both sides, so it is not strictly a matter of full pressure on one side causing a filter to go into by-pass mode at all times. Unless a filter has lots of restriction, it can have 120 psi on one side as well as 120 psi on the secondary side (or very close to it), so no bypass will happen in that situation.
While the Fram filter I showed earlier had big consequences because of no by-pass, I like the Canton filter I use on my Mach 1 BECAUSE it has no bypass. I thoroughly DO NOT like the idea of unfiltered oil getting into the engine. I watch my gauge on every start-up, and it takes no longer to reach pressure than any ordinary filter I've ever used. And that's with 50w oil, although it never gets started in real cold weather and I let it thoroughly warm up before raising the rpms and driving it.
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I have a pretty good grasp on pumps (I was a manufacturers Rep on the 10,000psi hydraulic stuff and that's how I got into filtration). FE oil pumps are all gerotor pumps, by the book gerotor's are positive displacement. They are known as self priming as long as they are not bone dry. Hate to argues but at a given rpm and the amount of fluid displaced per revolution of the gerotor there should be very minimal loss of fluid volume with pressure increases especially with a viscous fluids like oil. As far as leaks that's all downstream of the pump and filter (if you have oil leaks between the pump and filter you have a real mess)
As far as bearing clearances and leaks that is simply lubrication and heat removal in an engine.
The point I mentioned regarding delta-p is a typical spin-on oil filter flowing oil can not be expected to flow more then a few GPMs with delta-p increases/bypass.
FoMoCo was the source of the 20+GPM @ 4,000. I think they are on a pipe dream with numbers that high unless the gerotor simply internally bypasses a significant amount of oil inside the pump and they certainly have the internal ports to bypass from pressure side of the gerotor to the suction side. 15-20GPM bypass ??????
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Good luck!
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Bottom line is that no matter the numbers, flow rate or opinions, (including mine) , oil accumulators are certainly not going to hurt anything as long as there adequate amount of oil in the system.
To me its just plain and simple , accumulators = cheep insurance.
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I did some web searching and sure enough found Peterson Fluid Systems stating their dry sump pumps can flow in excess of 30 GPM which tends to back up Fords claiming their 427 FE oil pump may be able to flow the 24GPM they state.
"Our Dry Sump Pumps are built around our Patent Pending 4 lobe rotor which provides excellent oil pressure and flow in excess of 30 GPM on the High Volume pump for the highest need motors."
Wonder how many guys messed up their engine/filter by following this Accusump Installation drawing? .....
Cylindrical filters flow from the outside to inside, reversing the flow will send oil against the anti-drainback valve (which very simply acts as a check valve that prevents oil from draining backwards through the pump back into the pan. This is essentially a flapper valve and challenging it with pounds of pressure ass-backwards is not a good idea, oil pressure going backwards through the pleated filter pack will expand/rupture the media.
The drawing clearly shows the filter installed with the engines IN flow line going to the center of the filter and the OUT flow line connected to the side of the filter. My dad always said: If Mc Donald's who's known for burgers, screws up a hamburger that's a major problem. Likewise if you're in the automotive lube system accessories market you dam well ought to know the correct positioning of oil filters Inlets and Outlets in the system you sell..
http://gt4motorsport.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/accusump_plumbing.png
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The image represents how it should be routed.
The filter heads that come with an accusump kit are like every other with two fittings on the head of the filter. They are labelled in and out.
I'm starting to question your motivation for participating in this thread.
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Because just one....more....whack....and that horse will be dead ::)
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A accumulator only requires one line. No "in" and "out". A few years ago, I convinced Doug Garifo to make some filter adapters with a large 1/2" pipe thread in the passage that feeds the main galley...right next to the 1/4" pipe that picks up oil pressure. Before that, we would drill the housing and weld a #10 fitting to the adapter. From the beginning, I used only a Motorcraft filter BECAUSE there is a drain back valve, which I used/still use for a check valve to prevent backflowing the filter element. It worked perfectly, and has worked perfectly for at least fifteen years on every FE we have put an accumulator on. Wonderful product. I prefer the three quart Moroso. More is better. BTW, BB...you are correct....25 psi in an empty 3 qt unit will hold 2.5 qts of oil with a 70-75 psi max engine oil pressure. The compressed air does offset some of the capacity, and it varies depending on max oil pressure and initial air pressure in the empty accumulator. I think it needs at least 20 psi air pressure with no oil in it. It has to have enough force to do its job. Using less air just to make it hold more oil will not be a good answer. They absolutely work............no doubt about it.
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Blair, you mention a good point that I was going to bring up earlier. While the Canton filter doesn't have a drain back valve, a standard block with a VERTICAL filter mount would only retain oil in the single passage leading to the cam. All the other passages will naturally drain through bearing clearances. So a drain back valve is of little use on an FE except on a sideoiler block where it would also hold oil in the side oiler gallery (since those passages lead UP to the mains, but even then only if the rear valve is plugged), or if you have a horizontal or angled filter mount that could drain oil out of the filter. With an accumulator I think it would be imperative that a filter with a drain back valve be used to keep from back-flowing the filter itself. I wouldn't recommend a Canton filter with an accumulator.
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My Moroso Accumsump is plumbed as shown link, BB. I use Ford FLA1 or Wix oil filter. "Out" from the block is connected to "IN" on the remote filter adapter. "Out" on the remote oil filter filter goes to oil thermostat and then the cooler as shown in the picture. I use a one-way check valve also. Been using my accumsump for 2 decades.
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Yes this thread should be over. Mistral_427TP You stated: " "Out" from the block is connected to "IN" on the remote filter adapter." Please note there is no IN/OUT indicated on the Remote Filter Assembly in the drawing. Being without IN/OUT shown, the very POSITIONS of the in/out to and from the Remote Filter Assembly are incorrect. They show the oil entering at the CENTER of the filter and leaving from the SIDE of the filter. When it comes to filters they ALWAYS must discharge from the center of the filter. What is shown is ass-backwards making the oil flow through the filter backwards by the center and side port locations.
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CaptCJ, Blair I want to make sure I understand you. It sounds to me like you are purposely using a filter with an integral check valve and not using an independently mounted check-valve as AccuSump shows. My concern is "normally" a filter's anti drain back valve which is in all reality a simple flapper normally would never see more then a single psi at best back loading on it when performing its normal back flow operation on an engine. I believe the very flimsy by nature thin "rubber" back-flow diaphragm was never designed to withstand the pounds of pressure an accumulator could possibly exert. How much pressure could the thin rubber diaphragm withstand without being extruded through the dozen or so oil filters port holes in the filter head I don't have a clue.
Personally a check-valve to me is not a free ride, they exert restriction on the oil flow.
I've even been thinking about how well an oil wetted gerotor pump would pump air/compress gas when the oil pick-up was not submerged in oil. In other words I believe the spinning pump would do a great job on compressing air especially an air/oil mist into the oil system. What I'm saying is it is not like when the pick-up comes out of the oil all flow stops - flow continues but it's a compressible air/oil mixture.
From the beginning, I used only a Motorcraft filter BECAUSE there is a drain back valve, which I used/still use for a check valve to prevent backflowing the filter element. It worked perfectly, and has worked perfectly for at least fifteen years on every FE we have put an accumulator on. Wonderful product. I prefer the three quart Moroso.
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Back when I first tried it, I cut a filter apart and looked at the flapper/rubber. It reminds me of a reed valve, really. I think the one in a Motorcraft filter is thick enough rubber that it shoudn't fail. So far, so good............on a bunch of engines, a bunch of times. May be a case of an idea tried that just happened to work, but whatever the case, it works every time. I also always test the check valve operation on every filter I screw on one that has an accumulator.
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Blair, Motorcraft Racing FL1HP or regular FL1A, which do you use/recommend with the the accumulator.
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ALL racing filters utilize "loose" filter paper so that restriction through the media is very low and flow capability is high, unfortunately the by-product is HP filters compromise "fine" filtration for high flow & low restriction. HP filters are fine for race use, not thousands of miles.
Personally I like using a remote dual filter base that allows running a pair of regular filters in parallel. Trust me the advantages of doubling the number of filters are exponentially good in every way. The only thing you will be missing from a HP filter is the high burst pressure.
I found you can find these dirt cheap at swap-meets just look for the ones that have MADE IN USA in the casting, there much better then the imports that look similar.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161804253381?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_nkw%3D161804253381%26_rdc%3D1
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Absolutely know they have the floating piston (accu-sump site shows high prelube pressures) and understand Muscle Parts FORD GPM rating must be a design spec though a gerotor pump is positive displacement so there is virtually no reduction of flow from loading as with centrifugal pumps. As mentioned I've long pondered the 20+ GPM number and just come to believe it has to be recirculating internally within the pump big time- but why in the world would they "by the book" design a pump/lube system with so many friggen GPM???.... .Bypass/recirculating a FE oil pump internally likely does not use excessive power,,, maybe? Perhaps for quick recovery?...but I have no idea. The thought of a std auto filter even flowing 5GPM and trying to filter scares the hell out of me. It's got to be bypassing internally. Hard to comprehend many gallons flowing through an engines lube system. My engine builder mentioned watching a see into cut-away motor run where you could watch bearings and he was surprised at how much. Likewise I purposely scheduled my trip to the Circle Track Trade Show to witness Smokey run his Smoketron with strobes in the window pan that showed the blobs of oil slamming around the crankcase.
I got to chuckle at saying they use pre-lubers in all out race cars that obviously are dry sumps - hardly transferable to a wet sump.
BTW Jay the Fram HP1 is a race filter and has a much different filter rating then a std or Mobil 1 Filter.
Great video...