FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: Autoholic on July 01, 2015, 10:20:15 PM
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I remember reading on a few different topics a while back some individuals were wondering about the specifics of the SOHC production numbers. A long time ago I found and saved a couple scanned documents and am getting around to sharing that info now. The first document covers how many sets of factory aluminum SOHC heads were made. It says 75 sets were made, so 150 heads. The second doc goes into the production numbers of crate engines.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-p56xzjwIooY/VZSsgAv-VWI/AAAAAAAABVY/ex1fM8hfq6I/s576/SOHC-Letters-FE-Forum-02.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Tgt1kfdKDIo/VZSsgFfvA3I/AAAAAAAABVU/G4ksgFqbRE4/s576/SOHC-Letters-FE-Forum-03.jpg)
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I forgot to respond to this earlier, sorry. The number of aluminum heads made was certainly greater than 75 pairs of heads. Each head was numbered individually. I have #109 left and #172 right, plus two others that I can't recall the numbers off of at the moment. Back when I wrote the SOHC article I was talking with Ohio George via email, and George gave me the following numbers for aluminum heads that he had: #138 right, #151 left, #152 right, #186 right, #187 left, #262 right, #273 left, #278 right, #283 left, #285 left, #286 right, #290 right, # 291 left. It seems that the odd numbered heads were left heads, and the even numbered heads were for the right side. We don't really know where Ford started the numbering sequence, but even if it was at 100, there were at least 95 pairs made, and probably more if they started before 100.
On the engines themselves, Ohio George's opinion was that they made somewhere in the range of 750-1500 total engines.
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It's possible this was just for one year. It's the only documentation I've been able to find that goes into this. It's possible that the document on the aluminum heads was just the bulk of the production and some more were produced after this group. The engine production stats most likely only took into account the ones produced as crate engines. I've heard from more than one source that it was estimated around 500 engines. More were able to be made from the parts production. Of course this document only covers one year though, so it is entirely possible that Ford had another production year.
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I think they probably did have more than one production year, and of course I'm not trying to discredit the documentation you have; it is obviously geniune. FYI, in the 1967 Ford full size car shop manual, they listed two engine codes of SOHC production cars! An L code for the 427 SOHC-4V, and a D code for the 427 SOHC-8V. Since the engine first appeared in 1964, based on the Ford shop manual and your documentation I'll bet they were produced in 1965 and 1966.
By the way, I checked my other two aluminum heads, and they are numbers 3 and 5! The only thing that is odd is that #3 is a left head, and #5 is a right head. All the other right heads I know of were even numbered. But if the numbers on those heads are to be believed, Ford probably started with number 1, meaning that there were at least 145 pairs of aluminum heads made.
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By the way, I checked my other two aluminum heads, and they are numbers 3 and 5! The only thing that is odd is that #3 is a left head, and #5 is a right head. All the other right heads I know of were even numbered. But if the numbers on those heads are to be believed, Ford probably started with number 1, meaning that there were at least 145 pairs of aluminum heads made.
Sounds like you have some very collectable pieces there Jay! Maybe consider storing those under the mattress. ;)
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Jay, you might have the only remaining initial aluminum SOHC heads. I'd clean them up and make a museum piece out of them. I'd never put them on an engine. That pair of heads is worth at least $10k. As for the numbering, this is what I think. In 65 they produced 75 sets and in 66 they produced 75 sets, for a total of 150 sets of aluminum heads. Grand total of 300 castings. It would make sense.
Some info on SOHC data, for any who don't know already...
-On engine ID tags, a 363 indicated a single Holley 4 barrel carb SOHC and a 359J indicated a dual Holley 4 barrel carbed SOHC.
-Ford actually designated engine codes for the VIN. For the single carb SOHC it was a L and on the dual carb SOHC it was a M. It's sad this engine was never used in something like a Mustang or a Galaxy. I do find it interesting Jay that you have the dual carb as a D and all the information I've found has it as a M.
I just thought of something else too. Say 65 and 66 were designed to be identical production years, as with the aluminum heads. The documentation shows 435 crate engines were made in 66. If 65 was the same or very similar, that would mean roughly 870 crate engines were made. This somewhat backs up the rumor of 500 crate engines I've heard in the past, the major point to consider is that the production was under 1000. If I remember correctly, these images came from Gessford Machine's website.
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Got thinking a little more about this and decided to dig up my copy of the salient page of the Ford shop manual, that shows the engine codes. Here it is:
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Shop Manual SOHC Engine Codes.jpg)
No M code listed, just the D code for the 8V SOHC.
Next I took pictures of the back of the 4 aluminum SOHC heads that I have. Here, I discovered I was in error on one number. This is the head I thought was number 5:
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/SOHC54.jpg)
Looks like that is head #54 instead. In the dark of my shop, I thought that the area around the number 4 was just pitted a little; I did not see the stamp in the pitted area until I looked close with a flashlight. But now, as an even number, it is consistent with all the other factory aluminum right side SOHC heads that I have information on.
Here's pictures of the other three heads:
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/SOHC3.jpg)
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/SOHC109.jpg)
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/SOHC172.jpg)
Every one of these heads has the letters "PB" in a circle stamped on the back. Anybody know what that stands for?
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PB, stands for Peanut Butter...
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PB, stands for Peanut Butter...
Took the words right outta my mouth! LOL! PB also stands for lead on the periodic table. Doubt either suggestion poses any relevancy, but I'll stick with my Peanut Butter. Peter Pan creamy for my taste. :D
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PB might stand for production batch? It could also just be a designation Ford assigned to the aluminum head molds.
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I have some ford bolts with pb on them form Portland bolt but I know it does not mean that, lol...
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If you read the letter Joe posted you'll see Ford had Paramount Boring do the machining & final assembly on the aluminum heads, my guess would be PB stands for Paramount Boring ;)
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If you read the letter Joe posted you'll see Ford had Paramount Boring do the machining & final assembly on the aluminum heads, my guess would be PB stands for Paramount Boring ;)
Dang, good eye. I would have to agree. :)
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That makes more sense. From a quick google search, it appears that Paramount Boring and Machine is now Paramount Precision Products in Oak Park, MI.
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Decades later, we're still figuring out the lost secrets of this engine. :)
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If you read the letter Joe posted you'll see Ford had Paramount Boring do the machining & final assembly on the aluminum heads, my guess would be PB stands for Paramount Boring ;)
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Nice catch Kevin, you win the internets this week!
Darn, I was at Garlit's museum earlier this year and took a pic of the only SOHC in a stand in the "Engine Room" as it has the only OEM cast iron Cammer headers I ever saw. Didn't think to take close ups of the heads to see what numbers were stamped on it. Bet they were low!
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I don't think the cast iron heads were numbered. I've had two sets of factory cast iron SOHC heads, still have one of them, and they do not have numbers stamped in them like the aluminum heads do. Probably because they were done at Ford, not an outside shop.
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Jay, do you know if the aluminum heads were put on engines as part of the production run or were they parts only?
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I have never heard of the aluminum heads being installed on the crate engines. I believe they were over the counter only, designed for Ford's drag racing program back in the day. Pretty sure that the top fuel and top alcohol racers in the mid 1960s drove that decision. I'm also pretty sure that the aluminum heads made less power on a naturally aspirated, gasoline fueled engine than the cast iron heads did, and that the reason the aluminum heads were cast was to save weight on the top fuel cars.
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John V. would likely know the answers to the questions posed in this thread.
KS
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I don't think the cast iron heads were numbered. I've had two sets of factory cast iron SOHC heads, still have one of them, and they do not have numbers stamped in them like the aluminum heads do. Probably because they were done at Ford, not an outside shop.
My original crate engine cast iron heads are indeed numbered:
Notice the "PB" mark too! Right head:
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r33/EspeceDeSaluad/427%20SOHC%20Head%20Numbers%20001_zpswuikc7kz.jpg) (http://s140.photobucket.com/user/EspeceDeSaluad/media/427%20SOHC%20Head%20Numbers%20001_zpswuikc7kz.jpg.html)
Left Head:
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r33/EspeceDeSaluad/427%20SOHC%20Head%20Numbers%20002_zpskqm5npt5.jpg) (http://s140.photobucket.com/user/EspeceDeSaluad/media/427%20SOHC%20Head%20Numbers%20002_zpskqm5npt5.jpg.html)
Remember that Ford sold quite a few cast iron heads in individual boxes. I've seen several NOS examples. These, of course, would not be numbered.
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Wow, that's cool Bill! So then if the heads weren't stamped, you think they were sold over the counter? And I wonder if all the heads were machined at Paramount Boring? I'm going to have to take a close look at the cast iron set I have left, and see if they have that PB mark stamped in them...
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Wow Bill, I can't seem to find any rust on those heads. Must be a nice climate. All my iron parts rust before my eyes. :(
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Sunny, dry, Southern California! Of course this winter we're supposed to get a massive El Nino, so it may be raining a lot. I keep everything wrapped and hit it with WD-40 anyway.
Oh, and Jay, I believe there were at least as many iron heads sold over the counter as assembled onto crate engines. For a while they were advertising a conversion kit for your sideloiler block. I have seen a lot of those individual heads
Here are a few that I think come from the Rick Kirk collection:
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r33/EspeceDeSaluad/2005Kirk0223sohc_zpssrsnhqkv.jpg) (http://s140.photobucket.com/user/EspeceDeSaluad/media/2005Kirk0223sohc_zpssrsnhqkv.jpg.html)
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r33/EspeceDeSaluad/Dscn2435_zpsysjkn1x9.jpg) (http://s140.photobucket.com/user/EspeceDeSaluad/media/Dscn2435_zpsysjkn1x9.jpg.html)
- Bill
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I'm jealous of the weather there, I'll trade any day. Especially the winters, last one was no fun at all. Been raining mostly all week for over a month and humidity is usually high. Another product I've found that works well for rust prevention is Slide- No Rust.
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Did you guys notice that on the iron heads, the right is odd-numbered and the left is even? This is opposite to Jay's aluminum heads. Interesting!
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If you really want to clean a part, even remove oxidation from it, Gibbs brand is an old but still made product. Originally created to keep magnesium parts clean and free of oxidation.