FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: Big Sandy on February 12, 2015, 01:41:41 AM
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I recently bought a 64 Q code 427 Galaxie, it has 27k miles but has not been started for 40 years. The car has been in a shop since 74. I was hoping for some direction in what I need to do before trying to start this engine. I am new to the forum and any help would be much appreciated.
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Considering the value of the engine, I'd tear it down instead as many a bad thing can happen to that old of an engine. JMO but you'd shoot yourself if it spun a bearing, toasted some journals or otherwise damaged those pricey parts.
But, if you must.......
http://www.how-to-build-hotrods.com/start-an-engine.html
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Bob's answer is more logical but, if it turned, I'd fire it. I'd probably just put fresh oil and water, check the points and let her rip, but if you wanted to be careful you could pull the distributor and prime the oil pump first
It's likely going to have to come out eventually, freeze plugs, gaskets and seals will all be dry, but if it held water, I'd light it, watch oil pressure and high five the guy next to me when it ripped.
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Imo Depends on the final goal. driver ,for sale,show car ,ect ... If your going to keep it,Imo it has to get torn down and rebuilt. I think if it was fired up it would run but it might have rust in the cylinders, rings stuck, water leaks ect ..I wouldnt risk it with a rare engine ...
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If you fire it & you decide just to just run it unrestored or rebuilt, at the very least replace the rubber valve stem seals. They get rock hard over the years & will disintegrate into small pieces rather quickly & eventually get into the oil pump, jamming it & twisting the pump drive shaft until it breaks off leaving you without oil pressure. Then all kinds of bad things will happen. Great find & keep us posted with your plans for the car.
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I'm with the fire it now group. Turn the engine with a breaker bar on the big crankshaft bolt first to make sure it isn't stuck. If its not, I'd put in fresh oil and coolant, and let 'er rip. If it is stuck, I'd try some penetrating oil squirted into the cylinders through the spark plug holes, let it sit for a couple days, and then see if it frees up when you try to turn it by hand. And I'd still start it, if you could get it moving; I don't think running the engine if it frees up fairly easily will cause any significant damage. But for sure, if its stuck, it will need a rebuild at some point.
Post some pictures of the car when you get a chance...
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Nice find 8). My two cents, I'd sign on with Ross in that Bob's answer is the most comprehensive. For me, I don't think I could go through all of that with any level of patience though.
I would definitely index the distributor, pull it, pre-oil, use a breaker bar to give it a half turn, oil again and then drop it back in just as it was. You'd also probably need to find a way to get fresh fuel to the carb as soon as possible too. I have seen 40 year old gasoline and you don't want to draw that thru the lines and into the carb. A stand alone supply and a line to the pump could be a good idea.
Maybe pull the plugs and give it a dash of the marvel mystery oil treatment, crank it over a couple rotations with the plugs out, stick 'em back in and then fire it up.
Ultimately, as stated gaskets and seals will definitely need replaced, so it is gonna have to come apart some, but hearing it run with or without strange noises will give you confidence on what you're dealing with before you start.
Like Jay said, pictures would be nice too.
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Thank you all for the responses. My plan is to drive it as it is for a while but there are a few things I had planned to do first. I have it on the lift at this moment. We pulled the trans to replace clutch, pp, and flywheel. Going to have it surfaced and replace starter ring. The engine is not stuck, we have turned it over. My fear is having some catastrophic failure due to something dried getting to the oil pump. I have a complete 63 lo-riser that I may swap with the original and sit it to the side. I am going to take some of all suggestions. Will replace valve seals and oil pump and all fluids then prime it and fire it up then decide whether to swap for other engine. Thanks again. Will post pictures when I figure out how.
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Pull a valve cover and go from there....
My experience with 40 year old engines is that once you pull the valve cover and see all the sludge, you don't want to start them LOL....
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Things do go bad from sitting, my1926 Chrysler model 26 needs an engine job even though it has 12000 original miles on it. Oild rings, pistons and bearings are brittle and cracked, but keep in mind this is an original engine never diassembled.
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maybe pull the carb & run a magnet around inside the ports just to make sure nothing fell into it. nothing makes pieces quicker than a screw from the carb or from some joker dropping something in just for kicks.
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Im with Blykins about the valve cover
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Chickens..... :)
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The 4.6L in my truck came out of a 24,000 mile Crown Vic that been crashed. The motor was pulled and sat in a garage for about 10 years. When I picked it up it wouldn't turn over with a bar so we pulled the plugs and sprayed some oil down the cylinders for a few days. After that it turned over nicely with a bar. When we fired it up it pushed a bunch of rust out the exhaust manifolds but runs nice. The only problem has been a leaky rear main seal. Good Luck
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Maybe I deciphered this photo shrinking maze. I hope these pics load.
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one more
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maybe this one is larger
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my 69 R code 4spd Mach 1 project
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My 63 galaxie 500 390 tri-power 4spd convertible project.
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Nice '64. In fact, all are nice but man, you must have a lot of time on your hands....LOL!
On the start-up, many times the reason a car is parked is that something did go wrong. I've seen many a old muscle car, not sitting quite as long as yours, have any number of minor/major engine issues....which is why it got parked. Hopefully, that's not the case here. A compression test and/or leakdown test if it readily spins over is a good way to judge at least part of the engine's condition.
On popping the valve covers, the FE's design, unlike most engines, allows one to squirt oil down into the lifter/cam area with a long nozzle squirt can to prevent a dry start on those surfaces. One can bet after 40 years, even with pre-oiling using the dummy ditzy trick and a drill, those lifters must be bone dry. Just a thought.
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if it fires & runs nice enough, I would be tempted to give it a light buff & leave it as is. it's gonna be the next craze & I dig it.
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Mach 1 with new magnums, 17x8 and 17x9, shod with BF Goodrich G Force 245/45R/17s up front and 275/ 40R/17s out back. Still had some room in back, got a set of centerline softails 18x8 and 18x9.5, gonna try a 295 or 305 on those to see if they will fit outback.
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I like it, considering something similar on mine
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Awesome cars. And I see you don't discriminate when it comes to brands. Pretty much stuck on Fords, myself, but those mid 60s to early 70s Mopars are pretty cool...
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I have always been a Ford man since my dad let me sit in his lap and steer his 69 Mach when I was 8 years old. That car is where my love for old cars spring from. I also have a love for B body mopars. I am not a lover of chevys very much as the Camaros in the pictures belong to a friend. With that being said, I do have respect for any muscle car that is done with respect to its heritage. Thanks for the kind words on my cars, they are labors of love. I will post more pictures of the 427 car as it goes back together.
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Man, the '64 looks great. None of the aftermarket dress up parts to indicate what lurks beneath or make you think horsepower. The rusty front bumper and fade tell just how original it is. Let's hope the original owners parked it because it was a little rough on fuel economy. The lack of flash would seem to indicate (to me at least) that poor gas mileage and thrifty folks combined could have resulted in this car. It'd be great if that were true... :D
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Chickens..... :)
I'm with Ross :-)
I can't even begin to count how many old Ford engines I've fired and ran that had sat for many many years. Usually to use as a driver, and then proceed to drive the darn things for years until the cars body gave out. As a kid, I used to help my Dad do it all the time with flatheads. Now THOSE things had sledge build up like nobodies business because of the non-detergent oils back then. The deposits actually helped maintain oil pressure. The worse thing to do to them would be to clean everything and take all those deposits away, opening up escape routes for the oil, then they would always have low oil pressure as a result. Neither him or I ever parked a car because the engine quit, it was always the bodies.
As long as you don't over rev it or abuse it, you shouldn't have any problems. If it's been inside, and it looks like the car has been, I'd oil her down, flush the old antifreeze, do some checks, replace ALL the rubber, prime it...and let her rip. After all the crap and oil is burned out of it, replace the plugs once again, change the oil again and you're ready to rumble. 8) I'd always drive it easy for a while while things got seated in again. And you'll likely soon find a few leaky spots on the carb, valve covers etc. that can be and will need addressed.
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Why was it parked? Obviously these cars were run hard and generally mistreated. It is entirely possible there was bottom end trouble. I would fire it but be ready for a quick shut down if nasty noises are emitted.
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FYI: I bought a New Old Stock 427 LeMains short block and found the lube had turned plastic like hard requiring care in forcing apart all the components. Serious brushing with carb cleaner slowly dissolved the dried up lube.
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I'm in the "let er rip" group. Pull the valve covers and take a peek first though. Make sure the cam doesn't have a flat lobe. I'd expect most rubber parts to be shot. A full rebuild probably isn't too far off. But I'd have to drive it like it's rented first. ;D The 63 Galaxie box top I had in high school was a long time "sitter". Heck it was only 20 years old then and only had 55k on the odometer. Dad and I replaced all the fluids and let er rip. It smoked for the first few minutes then all was good. I drove it for all 3 years of high school. Just like it was rented....... ;D
Edit: I'm digging the Mopars BTW. I suppose if there wasn't such a thing as Ford I'd have to mess with Mopars.
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I agree. change the oil and fluids, if you can prime the oil sytem. fire that beast.