FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: RustyNCA on January 09, 2015, 01:29:45 AM
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So, we have a Mercury 410 motor and a few 390s from 65 TBirds.
I am supposed to be getting a Weiand 671 with FE intake and dual carb hat. At this point I don't know which FE intake it is, or which generation of 671 either, but I would like to start gathering information if it does happen.
I believe the 410 is the best motor to build for this, and we should go with forged pistons, but beyond that I am outside my knowledge base.
A local motor builder I know tells me we will have to run alum heads or we will have lots of detonation problems. Is this true?
Also what cam would work well.
We also have a 6x2 top for the Weiand, so we might decide to try and run it with the six Strombergs I have, or the Holley 94s.
Thanks for any help you guys can give me.
Cheers
Bryan
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Others on the forum hopefully can give you some blower advice. I will just say, there is no difference between the blocks on a 410 and the 390's. Same 4.05 bore. There may turn out to be minor differences, like the main webbing ( 3 finger or 2 finger ). The only thing that makes a 410 is the longer stroke crank and matching pistons. You're best course of action is inspect all the motors and do a sonic check on the cylinder walls and pick the best block from there. Just my opinion, I'd lean toward the 2 holleys. 6 small carbs just complicates getting it to run right, especially after a rebuild, with a new cam to break in, etc.
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Welcome Rusty! I know absolutely zero about blower motors. But an FE with a blower and 6 carbs on top would look pretty damn cool. 8)
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did anybody see the episode of Street Outlaws with the blown 64 gal in the background? floats my boat.
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One of the things I am really interested in hearing is if the requirement to run aluminum heads is correct?
By the way, the plan is to run this motor in my 58 TBird in front of a C6. So I also need to decide what stall I should be running.
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I do not know why you would have to run aluminum heads. Lots of blower motors use cast iron heads. I would use a low compression blower piston. Also cleaning up the chamber with a cartridge roll will help with detonation. I have heard that getting accessories like alternators water pump etc. On a fe blower motor can be difficult. Dyers blowers might have what you need.
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did anybody see the episode of Street Outlaws with the blown 64 gal in the background? floats my boat.
I did see that! I wonder whose car it is. The guys on that show rose greatly in my opinion when I saw that 64 Gal in the background...
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One of the things I am really interested in hearing is if the requirement to run aluminum heads is correct?
By the way, the plan is to run this motor in my 58 TBird in front of a C6. So I also need to decide what stall I should be running.
I don't think you need to run aluminum heads either; cast iron heads should be just fine. For sure you will need forged pistons, and run your compression down to 8.5:1 or so. I know that in some cases the blowers + intake manifold will not allow a stock distributor to clear, so make sure you check for that; you may need to run an offset or front-mount distributor.
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Or he can use a shortened distributor and a crank trigger.
There's a few guys on the forum running blowers with factory heads. Iron is fine.
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One of the things I am really interested in hearing is if the requirement to run aluminum heads is correct?
By the way, the plan is to run this motor in my 58 TBird in front of a C6. So I also need to decide what stall I should be running.
Nope as stated above, no need to run aluminum heads. In fact. most 6 and 8-71 equipped street driven cars around Chi-Town use OEM iron heads. Think: lots of 392's, 426's, BBC's and some SBC's. Few Fords have a blower but these are usually SBF's or BBF's (429-460) again with iron heads. BDS (Blower Drive Service) and Dyer's Blowers have a ton of relevant data on their websites.
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I don't think you need to run aluminum heads either; cast iron heads should be just fine. For sure you will need forged pistons, and run your compression down to 8.5:1 or so. I know that in some cases the blowers + intake manifold will not allow a stock distributor to clear, so make sure you check for that; you may need to run an offset or front-mount distributor.
Well, I was looking at the Mallory crab cap distributor to run up front?
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One of the things I am really interested in hearing is if the requirement to run aluminum heads is correct?
By the way, the plan is to run this motor in my 58 TBird in front of a C6. So I also need to decide what stall I should be running.
Nope as stated above, no need to run aluminum heads. In fact. most 6 and 8-71 equipped street driven cars around Chi-Town use OEM iron heads. Think: lots of 392's, 426's, BBC's and some SBC's. Few Fords have a blower but these are usually SBF's or BBF's (429-460) again with iron heads. BDS (Blower Drive Service) and Dyer's Blowers have a ton of relevant data on their websites.
Well, that would be good news, this guy, who is one of the better performance engine builders around here was swearing if we didn't run aluminum heads we have all kinds of pre ignition problems. He was saying that was an issue with the 410 and 428, but not the 390, which frankly made no sense to me why if he is correct it would only effect those.
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He was saying that was an issue with the 410 and 428, but not the 390, which frankly made no sense to me why if he is correct it would only effect those.
I don't know the guy, and I'm not trying to "sully" his reputation, but with comments like that I'd begin to question his knowledge on building an FE at least. While it's true that most aluminum heads can tolerate a LITTLE more compression, mostly due to more modern combustion chamber designs, what does he think guys ran for 30 years before aluminum heads started to show up on the market? Or in the case of FEs, 40+ years. Like any performance engine, it just comes down to the details, careful choice of parts like piston/cam/timing combination.
Either way, it sounds like you have a cool opportunity to gain some not-so-easy to come by FE parts. I don't think the crab cap will work on its own unless the blower is spaced up or it is a unique high rise intake design. Hopefully Faron or Larry will jump in here and say for sure. They have iron headed blown FEs.
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Lots of good info , and some speculation , 671 on My car since 1987 PM me if you have any questions glad to Help
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Lots of good info , and some speculation , 671 on My car since 1987 PM me if you have any questions glad to Help
Sorry, I tried to pm you, I can't seem to get by the verification deal..... :)
Just looking at your photos of the Mustang with the blower. What did you end up using for a distributor? Is the Mallory crab cap not the solution then? I can't tell from the photo what you are running.
Thanks
Bryan
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Here is My Direct e-mail TotalPerfEntofPa@aol.com , ttyl
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Here is My Direct e-mail TotalPerfEntofPa@aol.com , ttyl
Thanks, sent you an email.
And since I see people posting photos, this is the car I hope to do this with.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/justacog/58TBird/91106034.jpg) (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/justacog/media/58TBird/91106034.jpg.html)
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Nice! Is that a '58?
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Not often you see a blown squarebird 8) 8)
Nice combination :D
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Nice! Is that a '58?
Yes, and from what was told, I am the third owner, the second owner gave her to me, for the price of "If you can get her out of my yard, she is yours". She was all original when I started with her. The paint is original, but sadly the body needs some love.
I did some work to her, then got distracted with our 29 Coupe, have that one about done, so now I am back playing with her.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/justacog/58TBird/20141123_154334_zps2a4245a1.jpg) (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/justacog/media/58TBird/20141123_154334_zps2a4245a1.jpg.html)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/justacog/58TBird/20141228_150358_zps87160a88.jpg) (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/justacog/media/58TBird/20141228_150358_zps87160a88.jpg.html)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/justacog/58TBird/20141221_142001_zps57309de6.jpg) (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/justacog/media/58TBird/20141221_142001_zps57309de6.jpg.html)
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I would love to do this to my '57 but all the early bird fans would flame the shit out of me.
they already hate i don't run spoked wheels on it.
(http://www.brentroad.com/photos/00532732.jpg)
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That is an awesome bird. I already have an extra hood I grabbed off craigslist a few year back. At the time my wife was wanting to know what I was going to do with it. I was "I don't know, but for a hood and deck lid for $50 I don't care"
So if this does happen, I will be cutting up that $25 hood :)
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I know this goes way, back, but I finally got the blower delivered. Come to find out it is a polished Hampton blower with a 2.5 spacer and what I think is a Blue Thunder manifold. It also has the snout and idler pulley on it. So I need to figure out what pulleys I want to run and get a crank hub and v grove pulleys.
So, now I am starting the real job of getting this setup working in the car, so I am happy to hear comment and suggestions regarding this bad boy.
I also already had a Weiand W671 hat and a few Holley 94 carbs, so I set them on top of the blower to see what it would look like.
Cheers and thanks for any and all help
RustyNCA
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/justacog/58TBird/20150822_084805_zpsko8bzvbn.jpg) (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/justacog/media/58TBird/20150822_084805_zpsko8bzvbn.jpg.html)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/justacog/58TBird/20150823_104303_zpshctm8bqc.jpg) (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/justacog/media/58TBird/20150823_104303_zpshctm8bqc.jpg.html)
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That is really gonna be cool in that '58 Rusty.
I'm diggin' it.
Also like the chopped and channeled deal behind the blower.
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That will look pretty neat poking through the hood. :D
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That is really gonna be cool in that '58 Rusty.
I'm diggin' it.
Also like the chopped and channeled deal behind the blower.
Thanks Marc, the car in the background is my slightly chopped :) 29 Coupe running a SBC 400 motor with 6x2 Stromberg 97 setup, so running multi carbs isn't a new deal for me. I think most of my buddies expect me to run the blower in the Coupe, but I think she is fine the way she is. I'm pretty sure I haven't seen a blown 58 TBird running around lately so I'm going to go that route. Does anyone know, if I get a crank hub for a 390 and then build up a Mercury 410 as a specific blower motor, will the same crank hub work on the 410? I believe the 390 is internally balanced, but I don't know on the 410.
I need to track down a stall converter for the C6 I need to swap into her and I will need to chase down a better center for the 9" for her also. Talked with Don Hampton today, what a nice guy.
Cheers
RustyNCA
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/justacog/29Ford/20150613_162042_zpscybofppk.jpg) (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/justacog/media/29Ford/20150613_162042_zpscybofppk.jpg.html)
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Sweet Rusty
I'm sure Jay and some of the other guys will chime in on blower stuff.
If you are familiar with the other FE forum there is a gentleman that posts there with the handle of TommyT. He is running a 6-71 on his FE mustang and is also a T bird guy.
Here's a thread post and his mustang.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/message/1439664178/Exist+indeed%21
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....29 Coupe running a SBC 400 motor....
I'll ignore that statement and pretend you said a flathead ;)
Tommy is also a member here, so maybe he'll jump in and tell ya about his "junk", as he calls it.
That '58 is my favorite year of 'Bird. That thing will look awesome with a big blower sticking out of the hood. Some thin white wall tires would really give it that retro look with the 94's on top! The only other thing you'll need is a passenger, so you have somebody to tell you what's on the other side of that mountain! ;D ;D
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....29 Coupe running a SBC 400 motor....
I'll ignore that statement and pretend you said a flathead ;)
Tommy is also a member here, so maybe he'll jump in and tell ya about his "junk", as he calls it.
That '58 is my favorite year of 'Bird. That thing will look awesome with a big blower sticking out of the hood. Some thin white wall tires would really give it that retro look with the 94's on top! The only other thing you'll need is a passenger, so you have somebody to tell you what's on the other side of that mountain! ;D ;D
Yeah, I figured the SBC wouldn't go well..... When I bought her as a roller it had a 350 Tri Power motor in it. I stumbled across this 400 from a wrecked short track race car, so she performs pretty good.
Good news I found out from talking with Don Hampton that I can run the distributor I already have.
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That is really gonna be cool in that '58 Rusty.
I'm diggin' it.
Also like the chopped and channeled deal behind the blower.
Thanks Marc, the car in the background is my slightly chopped :) 29 Coupe running a SBC 400 motor with 6x2 Stromberg 97 setup, so running multi carbs isn't a new deal for me. I think most of my buddies expect me to run the blower in the Coupe, but I think she is fine the way she is. I'm pretty sure I haven't seen a blown 58 TBird running around lately so I'm going to go that route. Does anyone know, if I get a crank hub for a 390 and then build up a Mercury 410 as a specif
blower motor, will the same crank hub work on the 410? I believe the 390 is internally balanced, but I don't know on the 410.
I need to track down a stall converter for the C6 I need to swap into her and I will need to chase down a better center for the 9" for her also. Talked with Don Hampton today, what a nice guy.
Cheers
RustyNCA
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m125/justacog/29Ford/20150613_162042_zpscybofppk.jpg) (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/justacog/media/29Ford/20150613_162042_zpscybofppk.jpg.html)
The 410 uses an externally balanced flexplate. The front accessories are the same as the 390. Joe-JDC
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So I was asked if the crank keyway is 3/16 or 1/4, do I need to pull my balancer and all off to check, or is it 3/16 like all the web sites seem to show for FE?