FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: JimNolan on January 05, 2015, 11:31:59 AM
-
Guys,
I hope you don't get sick of me asking these questions. I can't put real wide tires on my 57 and I've been running a wide street tire for drag racing. I spin a lot coming off line and a 2.1 sec 60' time is the best I've been able to do. In fact, the 290hp 390 or the 375hp 410 give me the identical 2.1 sec 60' times. I've decided to go with a tire I can't drive on the street this year. My choices are DOT Radial or Bias Ply. They claim a manual shift car needs a Bias Ply but I'm not running a serious drag car here, I'm just doing this for fun. The car weighs 4000 lbs. How serious can you get with that. I'm running good equipment. Steel Flywheel,Lakewood Bellhousing, McClean Clutch, Tremec TKO 600, Moser 31 axles, Moser 9" 3.5 ratio Tru-Trac, 3.5" driveshaft, Traction Master traction bar. The only weak link (for what I got) launching a 4000 lb car is a small U-joint at the differential.
NOW: WILL A DOT RADIAL BE OK FOR WHAT I GOT OR DO I NEED THE BIAS PLY. Thanks guys, Jim
-
Your not using on the street, then buy a drag slick in bias. 2nd choice would be a bias ET Street or M&H street sticky......Al
-
A set of et streets will change your world ..
-
For your car I would definitely go bias ply. A radial needs a very well tuned suspension setup, and a good track, to hook consistently. Bias ply slicks are much more forgiving.
-
I see Hoosier makes a quick time pro bias ply tire that'll let me get in the DOT class.
-
2X to bias ply real drag slicks on spare rims you swap on at the track.....it's the best way to fly!
-
I've had both Hoosier quick time pro and mickey e.t. street. They hook about the same, but the Hoosier seems to "flat spot" from setting in a few days. Also the mickeys seem to have less of a bulge on the sidewall.
-
Thanks guys, especially fastback, the section width observation means a lot to me. I'm really limited to what size tire I can put under that 57. I use an 8" wheel and I'm running a 9.75 section width tire now. I'm going to do some more measuring and see if I can up it to 10.5" with a new back space wheel.
-
A 4000lb stick shift car with slicks and 1330 U-joints is just begging for problems. I'd seriously consider upgrading to solid 1350s if your plan is to hook solidly, which the bias plys will do if ran properly. A broken U-joint can cause all sorts of carnage in the trans or rear...or both, even in a mildly built car.
Cory is right about the sidewall flex, it's nowhere near as bad in a bias compared to radial.
-
I`m gona run the American Racers on my 54 this yr they make the old bias letter sizes, They have a L-60/15 a G-60/15 and a 295-50/15 which is close to a M-50 thats the one I`m gona use. They have a website with all there sizes and tread compounds. Me and my friends have used them for yrs on are street cars they hook well and have some tread so if you get caught in the rain.
-
Further to what Doug has mentioned you will need at least a safety loop in the front
to be track legal for most places and I recommend the rear loop as while.
You can use the 1330 but I would use the solid steel non grease able type.
-
Thanks guys, I'll go with a bias ply tire. Won't be a real big one because it won't fit under the car if it is. The 1330 I'll leave alone right now due to the way I leave the line. I have better 60' times if I leave the line at idle and come down on the gas as the clutch is coming out. I tried revving it up to 2000 rpm but it spun too much giving me an extra .3 on my 60' time. The best time I've had so far is 2.1 and if I don't have to get out of the gas after I launch I'm hoping to break into the 13's. I'll see what happens with the bias ply and that may change everything. A friend of mine from MI said his 66 Fairlane brought the wheels off the ground with a 1330 until the rear end case busted and he didn't see me having a problem with the 1330 and the nodular case I'm running. I'll keep an eye on it and if I launch real hard I'll change it.
-
Don't forget you are installing drag tires, they will hook, your car will not be the same. To take advantage of them you will need to put your foot in it. With 3.50 gears there will be a lot of drive line torque. The 1330 u-joint is small and wide, very weak, the 1310 is even stronger. I think your FE will need the 1350. Keep in mind if it breaks it's usually not just the u-joint, it can destroy both yokes and the back lash can break the rear axle gears, sometimes even the tranny.
Nick
-
I say if he is going to rip anything out of the car it will be the Traction Masters.
Just be reasonable with the side step and the old Ford is pretty tough.
Go have fun and don't worry. ;D
-
Thanks guys,
I called Moser and they had my information on what I'd bought in 2011. Apparently the Tremec end of the drive shaft is 1350 and the differential end is 1310 instead of 1330. Sooooo, they informed me the rear end I got didn't have the crush sleeves and I'll be able to replace it without having to take the differential apart. They are sending me the yoke and everything I need. He said it was a PY200 yoke. I'll have to look it up.
The Driveshaft I'll take to Ft. Wayne while it's out of the car and hopefully they'll be able to save it and just replace the end. It's 3 1/2" in diameter and balanced great, I'd hate to lose the balance. Thanks guys for not letting up on me. Anymore, is less about the money and more about the work that each endeavor holds in store for me.
Thanks again. Jim
-
I recommend you take the pinion housing assembly out and do it on the bench. Not the whole pumpkin, just the pinion assembly, then you can verify that the pinion bearings are correctly loaded. Extremely easy to do
-
A set of et streets will change your world ..
I have no doubt that many (if not most) here have more passes on sticky tires than I do - but I'm another fan of the MT drag radials. My stuff is slow and on street tires these days - but I've been in a car that went 10.0X @ 13X with 1.48 60' on them... This was a full weight, full interior, power adder mustang. Not sure that it was fully 4000 lbs but it was probably close (I looked up factory weight and found about 3800 lbs).
They are not quite slick sticky - but for a street tire they are very good on dry pavement and GREAT on a prepped track...
http://www.mickeythompsontires.com/strip.php?item=ETStreetRadial
just my 2 cents...
-
I watched some videos of setting preload. Also one video that the guy measured the distance from the top of the nut to the end of the shaft and just retightened to that depth. I'm not using crush sleeves. And for the life of me I can't see how to capture the assembly to tighten the nut very much if it's not left in the housing. I'll figure it out. Thanks, Jim
-
To capture the assembly you just grab the yoke; the pinion shaft is splined, so holding the yoke holds keeps the shaft from turning. Slide the yoke on the pinion, screw on the nut a few turns, hold the yoke in the vise, and tighten the nut.
-
I wasn't think, thanks Jay. Is 20 inch pounds right for a used bearing?
-
I've been told 25 inch pounds for new, and 15-20 for used - Jay
-
Well, I got the 1350 differential yoke from Moser. Emailed Wheel Vintiques for price on a couple 15 X 8 w/ 5.125" BS Series 62 wheels for the tires. Spent two days researching tires and the biggest I can go is the Hoosier Quick Time Pro 26X9.50-15 tire. It's a 10" section width. That's it. I haven't got any more clearance. Called Ft. Wayne Drive Shaft and as soon as the weather gets a little warmer I'll have them change the end on my driveshaft to a 1350 U-Joint. That's it. The fastest I've went is 14.3 while spinning a long way coming off line. I hope it'll break into the 13's with the changes I'm making. I know that's not fast for you guys but for a car I take 600-950 mile trips to car shows with regularly it'll be a treat to drive.
Thank you guys for all the advice you've given me. The motor runs great, a few leaks but I'll get them. It's a motor I can use for any occasion. Thanks for helping me put this car together. Jim
-
Jay gave you good advice.
I will add, don't overthink the preload of the bearings. The measuring distance is NOT a good idea IMHO, it assumes the last guy did it right. I go by feel or recommend using the torque values.
As you tighten, the housing which is hanging loose with the yoke in the vise, will initally have slop. Like a loose wheel bearing.
As you tighten more, the slop will get less. You want zero slop, then a little preload. 20, 25 in lbs, really doesn't matter that much, just be sure there is a little drag on it without being able to feel the rollers because it is too tight.
Finally, be sure to have a good or new locknut, and a couple drops of Loctite is not bad on top of that. Once you get that drag/preload, you want it to stay that way.
Also keep in mind if you leave it in the car, you are not measuring drag of the pinion bearing preload alone, you are measuring rotating resistance of the entire pumpkin and even the axles and brakes. So the bench is the best.
In the end though, if this rear has spacers instead of crush tube, likely you will just zonk it down and it will be perfect. If it has NOTHING, which is OK too, then you need to be a little more carfeul
-
My427stang,
I finally got what you guys were telling me about taking the pinion out of the housing. And, it uses a solid spacer, it doesn't use a crush sleeve. I'll find a dial torque wrench to put it back on. 1 1/4 pounds of torque after no slop isn't very much. The new yoke came with a new nut and spacer. Thanks
-
If you have a spacer, just zonk it down with an impact and check for slop as you tighten for peace of mind.
The spacer IS the determiner of preload, that is a very good thing.
-
Hey Jim,
Once you get past this little issue with the '57, how about giving us a rundown on that '63 Boxtop? I'd like to hear some details of that 406.
from a fellow '63 owner...
Bruce
-
BruceS,
That 406 63 Boxtop isn't a true 406. The block is the only thing I couldn't find. I ended up putting a 390+.030 block in it. Granted, everything except the forged L2291F30 pistons and the block are 406. I added the deep sump oil pan and windage tray and Mad Dog headers with 2.5" exhaust. The Cam is a Lunati 282/296 214/224 .500/.500 that allows me to run mid grade gas. It ended up with a .030 quench, 10.7 CR / 8.1 DCR engine. I had a 3.50 Trac-Loc in it and the Jay Broader wide ratio C6 would light up the tires in every gear. But, then I wanted to drive it. Soooo, in goes a 2.75 ring and pinion and a period correct AC unit. I also added power brakes. It looks like a 385HP 406 but best estimates are it's got about 370HP. It's taken first place at the Ford Nationals and got a Celebrity award last year. I have no regrets with this car. I don't trailer it and it's been all over the country in the last 3 years under it's own steam, it's never been on a trailer because it's a pleasure to drive and comfortable on a trip. Granted, it leaves a lot to be desired on takeoff but it'll set you back in the seat once it gets rolling. We'll have it at the Galaxie Nationals at Tupelo, MS, if the purist's don't like it at the Galaxie Nationals I'll park it with Allen Hutchinson's group around the corner. I'm registered for both events.
And Bruce, thank you for asking about the 63. If you're on Facebook look my name up and I'll friend you. I'd like to see pictures of your 63. Jim
-
Jim,
Here's a link to my original post back in early 2013 on the Galaxie.
http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=891.msg7386#msg7386
I'm also thinking of going to the Galaxie Nationals in May in Tupelo. Like you, I'm going to keep mine as a driver that I won't mind taking on some long trips; that factory Ford Selectaire is working great! :)
Bruce
-
Alright guys,
I've rounded the list down for tires that will fit underneath my car. Choices are slim when you don't have clearance. I know the MT Streets are popular but they won't fit. Remembering I'm putting a 4000 lb. + car on the track with a manual transmission with only @375HP, tell me which one you'd choose. These are tires @26 inches in Dia. that will put me @ 4700 rpm across the line.
1. Mickey Thompson ET Drag----- 8.1 Tread Width-----L8 compound (half way between soft and Medium)
2. Hoosier Drag Tire----------------9.0 Tread Width-----C11 compound (close to Medium on the + side)
3. Hoosier Drag Tire----------------8.0 Tread Width-----D06 compound (half way between soft and Medium)
4. Hoosier Quick Time Pro----------8.0 Tread Width-----Quick Time Pro (soft)
Thanks guys, Jim
-
If your going to run slicks don't forget about Goodyear. I have their 29 x 9 on my 67 fairlane and they fit in with no modifications. The Hoosier qtp you are looking at will hook your car great, IMHO. My buddy has them in the 26 x 8. He has a 1.50 60 ft. His car hooks with a 175 shot of nos and will pick the tires on the track or street. I like the street tires because they hook the same as my slicks and I don't have to change wheels and tires to race.
-
I`ve been following this thread and trying to figure out what size tire I can fit under my 63 Galaxie. I want to run it at Beaver Springs this April. Anyone have a recommendation? The car is a 427 4spd I put traction bars on it yrs ago and I`m about to swap out the diff for a Detroit locker. I measured the wheel house and best I come up with is 9". Everything I`ve looked at is around 9" but what concerns me is the aspect ratio. They all seem to be 9-10"and it looks like they may rub, I`m not going to campaign it hard just want to have some fun with it. Any suggestions?
-
With my 63 Galaxie, I fit 275/60/15 under the car with no problem on 8 inch steel wheels.
Seems like plenty of manufacturers make drag slicks in this size.
Rear end pictures here:
http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/makin-progress/553305-2013-progress-my-63-5-galaxie.html
-
I wonder how much it would take to get a 29x10.5W under my '61
-
427stang,
I got the yoke changed on the differential. I was flabbergasted by how much torque it took to take off the nut. And, like you said, there wasn't any way in hell I was going to get it off with a impact wrench, much less having it still in the car. I finally got it off with a extension on my breaker bar and then I thought I'd break something first. The yoke more or less fell off without any trouble. I called Portland and questioned him about the torque I was going to use to put the nut back on. He said lean on it just like you did taking it off, so I did. When it was drawn up tight the bearing spun freely. When I got through leaning on it you could feel some resistance. I remember what you said about feeling the roller bearing and it's not like that at all. Put it back in and I'm ready to take the driveshaft over to Ft. Wayne and have the 1350 end put on it. I didn't replace the rubber O-ring on the pinion support, I looked at it real good and it looked fine. Thanks for helping me. Jim