FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: KMcCullah on November 26, 2014, 12:04:46 PM
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I need to pressure test the water jackets in my Genesis block and need to make a crude torque plate. I was going to borrow my machine shop guys BHJ plate but he's on vacation for a while. Does anybody have a drawing that they can post that details the hole layout on an FE deck? Obviously I can sketch something up myself but was hoping to cheese out and save a little time. Thanks guys and Happy Thanksgiving.
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I don't have a drawing, but I'm pretty sure that the horizontal head bolt spacing is the same as the bore spacing, which is 4.630". Vertical spacing might be the same 4.630" too. You just need a flat plate with the head bolt holes in it to seal, right? I'd check those dimensions on the block with a caliper, and if they're close just lay out the holes on your plate and drill them a little big just in case.
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I always made my pressure test plates from thick plexy glass, then made a rubber gasket by tracing out a head gasket out on a old inner tube. You can cut the plexy with a router as it has a roller bearing on the tip of the cutter and roll it around the bores of the block and edges to tidy things up. Plexy comes in 1/2 and 3/4 if you can find it on short notice.
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The drawing. If you click on the picture it "should" get bigger.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/Allmixed012_zps9dd20280.jpg) (http://s135.photobucket.com/user/ScotiaFE/media/Allmixed012_zps9dd20280.jpg.html)
Interestingly here is a picture of a Genesis block with a BHJ plate on it.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/DSCN0373.jpg) (http://s135.photobucket.com/user/ScotiaFE/media/DSCN0373.jpg.html)
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Thanks Howie! Does the deck on your Genesis look like it was milled by hand with a 9" Milwaukee grinder? Mine sure does. Makes it hard to measure deck height. I should have dusted the decks when I roughed the bores.
(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/kmccullah1/IMG_20141102_140703_zpsf73d03f1.jpg) (http://s1207.photobucket.com/user/kmccullah1/media/IMG_20141102_140703_zpsf73d03f1.jpg.html)
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Your deck does look a little rough. hmmm...
You also have a different version of the Genesis than mine.
Mine has the square lifter bores.
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Heck, just take a piece of cardboard, a ball peen hammer.....and in about 2 minutes you'll have a perfect template. No need to make it more difficult than it needs to be. Even a bigger piece of paper with a pencil for shading will work.
That block looks like an earlier Genesis block, when they were still making changes and had some "issues" with casting and machining. Hopefully that is just a mock up and you'll be doing final machining? I certainly wouldn't trust that deck finish.
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Yep just mock up Doug, I've got a lot of work to do yet. Like you said this early Genesis casting has a some issues. I was grinding around the motor mount area where the side oiler galley is. Trying to make the motor mount fit flush. I noticed an inclusion in the casting that could easily be connected to the main oil galley. Blair and I were chatting a while back and he told me about several early Genesis blocks he did where a few of the main oil galleys actually leaked water. :o
The bores still have .003 left and no signs of inclusions so that's a good sign I suppose. Honestly if I somehow could have know about these early Genesis casting "issues" I would have pressure tested everything before doing any machine work.
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Funny how things always become clear after you buy something or build it. I have learned a lot the hard way on engines over the years.
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Even my latest Sideoiler Garage block has a couple of issues, but they are still really stout and good blocks. Choices were more limited just a few years ago. Good luck on your build, and I hope you don't have any inclusion problems pop up.
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Doug, What kind of issues have you found on the sideoiler garage blocks? I`m thinking of getting onr in the near future. The one Barry had at the FE reunion was really good looking, finish looked like factory unit.
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I am thinking of going to a aftermarket block myself on my next build but that is a ways off. I usually wait a few years after the release of a new product before I buy anyhow, let the bugs work their way out first ya know. Even the factory stuff you want to wait until the gremlins become exposed first before you buy. I have even run into issues with certain production castings being made of a bad alloy or shifted core causing issues in certain production runs so really you are never sure until you open the box as to what you end up with.
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Hi Kevin, I can email a dxf of it for you. I have made my own copper head gaskets. Cheers, Warren.
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Thanks for the offer Aussie. I got my block pressure tested this weekend. Checked the drivers side first. Drained the water, took off the plate and rolled it around to the passenger side. While rolling the block around about half a beer can of black sandy mud fell out of the drivers side water jacket. ::)
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Might want to warm the block up with hot water while checking it, I have found that cracks and pores will not open up until warmed up. At the machine shop when I worked there I would test the castings fresh out of the hot tank. I missed a few cracked cylinder walls and cylinder heads prior so I got in the practice of doing the parts warmed up. I even would let them cool down sometimes to compare results, many would not leak cold but would leak hot, many would also not leak until cleaned as sludge and corrosion would block flow of air through the offending fracture.
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Doug, What kind of issues have you found on the sideoiler garage blocks? I`m thinking of getting onr in the near future. The one Barry had at the FE reunion was really good looking, finish looked like factory unit.
Here's a post and discussion that I put up when I got the block. The hardware was one issue, but the oil port from the pump to the filter was a bigger issue to me. While technically this one was "fixed", there are still a couple things I don't like about the fix so I will be re-doing it. BUT, the block is very stout, in fact it is cast even stouter than most other aftermarket blocks with the "siamesed" casting extending to the front and back bulkheads.
http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=1483.0;all
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I like your Sideoiler Garage block Doug. Is the machining done for the relief valve? I see several upgraded casting features. The steel main caps are a big improvement also. My early Genesis has cast caps. I had the same "suspect" hardware with mine too. I popped for the ARP main stud kit. Seemed like cheap insurance to me. It also looks like you will have to mess around with motor mount clearance too. I kinda wish I would have left a little bit of the sideoiler bump on and just spaced the motor mount out with some washers. Live and learn I guess. This old Genesis block is my training unit. :)
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I think as I look at all the offerings I would go for the Pond block, the fully enclosed mains are a big plus for me as a selling point. I suppose all the aftermarket blocks are an improvement to some degree. I would say with original blocks getting harder to come by it is a good thing you can buy a replacement in general no matter what design. When the day comes to throw down the green I will look deeper into the attributes of the current blocks and make a decision then. It was mentioned in another thread that a tall deck may be in the works with bigger bores, I would definitely be interested in a monster like that for my Comet project later on but for now my 68 390 445 stroker is eating me up already. Either way on the next build I will be much wiser from what I have learned from you guys as to the good, the bad and the ugly LOL.