FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: Lenz on July 18, 2014, 09:58:30 AM
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So, I was checking my throwout bearing clearance and noticed something out of the corner of my eye. An almost imperceptible coolant leak from bottom of the tin between the bell and block. Checked topside and found no evidence anywhere. At this point assuming a small weep from a freeze plug (?) Oil and coolant are clear, no external evidence of gasket failure. Motor has about three hours of operating time on it and is running strong.
Read in one of Jay's recent posts about running sealer through the engine to make sure there were no coolant leaks. Is there a preferred type or Do I just hit it with "Bars-leaks" or a similar .
As always, input appreciated- Len
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They all work pretty well, considering nobody admits to using them :)
I have had good luck with the old school pelleted/syrup Bars leaks in the clear bottle. Best bet is to warm it up with the cap off, then dump it into hot water and close it up
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Ok, somebody.....what could possibly leak coolant between the block and bellhousing? Only thing I know of back there are oil hole plugs and the cam plug, none of which have coolant near them.
Are you sure it's not coming from the head and seeping in between the bell?
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Ok, somebody.....what could possibly leak coolant between the block and bellhousing? Only thing I know of back there are oil hole plugs and the cam plug, none of which have coolant near them.
Are you sure it's not coming from the head and seeping in between the bell?
Short answer, no. I should have remembered no plugs back there :-[, guess I had a vision of one of those "other" blocks stuck in my head when thinking about possible sources.
I ran my hand across the intake base, intake/head interface, and around the base of the heads at the block near the rear, all bone dry. Will check again tonight and move forward up the block.
Problem is that it's minor enough so as not to present itself. I pulled the cap and the coolant level was about an inch down. If I hadn't been under the car I wouldn't have noticed it. That's why I thought of a sealer.
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I had a similar trace leak that turned out to be a head gasket leak, they were Felpro 1020s ,since it was a pretty fresh rebuild I re-torqued the heads and that problem was solved.
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Yeah, they're Fel-Pros and this build is plenty fresh. When I assembled I torqued, did something else for an hour and then torqued again. I also pulled the valve train and torqued again (along with "snugging" the intake) after initial breakin was done.
Even with all that it makes sense to check again though, the only real choices are heads or intake.
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I don't use the sealer due to the coating it leaves on the internals. The radiator is the most prone, along with the heater core. I have had to actually replace plugged heater cores and radiators from it. You loose a lot of cooling capacity, kinda like a heat blanket.
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I have used a Vighty Vac pump for vacuum / pressure to pressurize cooling system to find the pesky leaks. I try to keep it around the cap rating on pressure. Good luck :)
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That's a good idea, I always borrow my buddys pressure tester but I have a Mighty Vac already.
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I have used Moroso Ceramic sealer for small weeps with success.
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X2 on the moroso sealer. It sealed two different head gasket leaks for me.
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For many years, Ford was said to put Bars-Leaks in every new car coming off the assembly line.
KS
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For many years, Ford was said to put Bars-Leaks in every new car coming off the assembly line.
KS
At first I was surprised by that, but after thinking about the ratio of motors lovingly put together by us that leak vs the amount of motors Ford put out that don't leak, it makes sense.
I'm trying to get over the personally perceived stigma of using the additive as a crutch for inadequate work/parts.
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I quit using bars leak years ago when it plugged my heater core.
I started using aluma seal with great results.
http://www.amazon.com/AlumAseal-ASBPI12-Radiator-Powder-Blister/dp/B000FW61M4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1405793972&sr=8-1&keywords=aluma+seal
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Marc, get what you're saying about the quality of work and parts. I was careful and can remember each step of the assembly process due to habitual triple checking and still ended up in this spot. Even so, sealer is where I'm headed 'cause I'm good on the torque and there's no way I'm going back into the motor to figure it out without trying the easy path. Thanks for the input all, very informative as usual. I'll follow up after I do the deed.
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Hope you know I didn't mean that aimed at you Len.
Just trying to get it straight in my own head.
When folks I respect say they use it and Ford uses it.
I start a thinkin' (bad idea ;D).
When I was younger I had always heard it used as a stop gap fix.
I had heard that it indeed plugged a rad or two and had it in my head because of that to not use it.
But it seems that the talk lately is that it really does help.
I have zero experience to base conclusions on with it.
Sounds like some products work and some don't.
My non familiarity with it is why I DID take my engine back apart.
I'm actually glad I did. I learned a lot.
In my case it was good to look.
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No Marc, I didn't take it that way at all. My third run with the torque wrench was in no small way partly because of what happened to yours. I grew up hearing pretty much the same things, figured sealers were a bad choice or stop-gap measures at best. Tech has come a long way though, seems like there's lots of good stuff out there. The winner in this case was AlumAseal, it got a nod here from rcodecj and it was on the shelf at my local Advance Auto Parts so I snagged some. Fired it up and ran it for 30 minutes, bottom of the tin was dry this morning :).
I've used Bars-Leaks in every day drivers over the years and never had trouble, but clearly others have had issues so I figured I'd steer clear this go-around.
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That's great it worked.
Good luck.
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Thanks. Make no mistake, my next order of misc. from Summit is on the fridge. Moroso ceramic is on the list just so I've got it on the shelf. If it does start to weep again I'll try that next after a drain and flush. The thing runs too good to take apart ;D. I don't have the dreaded signs of coolant and oil mixing either, way easier for me to choose what I did. If I had the indicators you had I do not believe I would have even considered sealer. I followed along with your investigation and the comments here, I think you did the right thing, what you had to do 8).
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Final comment regarding Bars-Leaks.
Mother's milk causes drug addiction! 100% if you include the new-fashioned formula. You see, all drug addicts started out with formula or Mother's milk. So one MUST cause the other.
(Or perhaps one has nothing to do with the other. A heater was almost no good and when it was examined there was B/L in it. :) :) :))
KS
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Point well taken KS ;D.
Just to follow up, I believe I found the source with some great lighting and relentless pursuit. No thinking out loud this time either Doug so I don't envision Chevy block freeze plugs in the rear of an FE while thinking up possible leak sources lol, that still stings a might. I bought my block fully prepped so that step was not in my memory bank.
Since everything is fresh and clean I figured there'd be at least a minor stain. Found one about 1/4 of the way up at the intake/head interface at the right rear, discolored sealer and slight trace pattern below. Probably got in trouble bumping the intake around a bit to best fit Dizzy, even though I used the best motorcraft sealer, prob'ly not enough.
Anyway, in the end I'm glad 'cause I have somewhere to look if I have any more trouble and I can also pull and reseal the intake if I need to. Way better than head gasket problems for sure.
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Len, I was racking my brain trying to remember where there was water in the back of the block...lol! I figured there was something obvious I was forgetting. It certainly wouldn't have been the first time :)
Glad you found the spot. Hopefully the sealer will work, but like you said, at least it's not internal and an intake re-gasket isn't that big of a deal if it doesn't.
Mother's milk causes drug addiction! 100% if you include the new-fashioned formula. You see, all drug addicts started out with formula or Mother's milk. So one MUST cause the other.
KS
Ken, now that is funny.
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I have had a constant coolant loss from day one with my Ed headed stroker. Not a leak on the floor but a constant loss from the recovery bottle every 500 or so miles of freeway driving. On my 3000 mile round trip 2 years ago I added about a 1l bottle after my first over night stop , then again in CA. then the same on the return. I top it up with about 10oz or so every 3 days here at home.
Well I created a hole in the radiator about 3 months ago and trying to be cheap I tossed a bottle of Aluma Seal in it ,after about 30 mins of garage running it stopped leaking. I drove it to work and basically the alum tube just continued to split. I replaced the radiator. Now having added another 300 miles with what ever amount of AlumaSeal is still in there I no longer lose water from the recovery bottle.
BTW I had a good idea how the water was getting out, I have staining on the block at the head junction and no water in oil. I did retoruqe the heads but still the water creep.
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Now if they would come up with a miracle product for oil leaks. :)
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Good to see, another possible plus report on the AlumAseal. Time will tell on the "permanence" of such a fix, but really, around here all you need to do is make it to November then suddenly you have about 5 months to re-gasket if you need to :D.
Yep, no miracle fix for oil leaks >:(. I'm happy to say I don't have that issue, but now I'm chasing a driveline vibe so that's another thread-
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fkn driveline vibe! Chased mine for a year and a half, think I finally got it worked out after replacing um, the entire drivetrain... Will be interested to see and chime in on your driveline vibe thread.
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I've used Alumiseal (TM) or very similar look-alike aluminum or copper-flaked metal products when needed for a long time. Truckers and OEM truck engine makers use it and I figured why not? It does work great unlike some other stop leak products. Haven't needed to try Moroso's sealer but it also comes highly recommended by many.