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FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: sixty3 on July 12, 2014, 09:48:27 PM

Title: Need advice on new Clutch plate /kit
Post by: sixty3 on July 12, 2014, 09:48:27 PM
Getting geared up for the only week I take my 63 Galaxie to the Drag Strip, Byron IL Melt Down Drags, Nostalgic pre 66 cars.  This year I have the opportunity to run slicks so I put on a line lock some time back and thought I should brush up on my burn out.  So figuring out I can't hold the stupid button in and shift into second, I started trying to start out in second so I don't have to shift.  Long story short I burnt up my clutch disc.  Nice burn smell and lost ability to shift into gear.  Got car off road and found what I would call fiber strands of material and then they were coming out of clutch fork opening.

Can't say I have more than 2-3k miles on this setup. Not sure if we set up clutch incorrectly, but will say I had the assistance of my neighbor who has 15+yrs working as an mechanic and has many certifications ( Senior Master Mechanic last I knew) , we are all human so it could be on us.  TKO 600 with RAM components.

Getting ready to drop tranny tomorrow and see how much damage. Figure I should just replace disc,plate and even pilot bearing?

Should I stay with RAM or try another brand?

Thanks
Kevin
Title: Re: Need advice on new Clutch plate /kit
Post by: cjshaker on July 12, 2014, 10:21:47 PM
RAM makes good stuff, but did you have their "stock" style clutch? If so, it would have a very limited life for any racing. And starting a burnout in 2nd will kill just about any clutch. Coupled together, a stock style clutch would last about.....oh, zero times.

You could get rid of the momentary switch and add a constant "on" switch for the burnout. That would make it hands free until your done. Just don't forget to toggle it back off :)

And if you fried the clutch, the flywheel is likely to be burnt also. If it's discolored from heat, it's junk. It only takes once....and just a couple seconds at that. Been there, done that ::)
Title: Re: Need advice on new Clutch plate /kit
Post by: fastback 427 on July 13, 2014, 12:48:03 AM
I dont think you can go wrong with a mcleod set up. I've ran a few in different applications and have been flawless for me. I would also check the flywheel for cracks as its pretty common.
Title: Re: Need advice on new Clutch plate /kit
Post by: fe66comet on July 13, 2014, 04:36:31 AM
I am looking at the street RST twin, is that the one you are using?
Title: Re: Need advice on new Clutch plate /kit
Post by: MustangGT on July 13, 2014, 04:55:38 AM
I am using the street RST twin in my mustang. Nice feeling clutch pedal and grabs good without the harshness of a sintered one. Only street tires for me so far. When the car is moving and I floor the throttle in second gear, no line lock, the tires smoke for as long as I want. No clutch slippage.
Title: Re: Need advice on new Clutch plate /kit
Post by: fe66comet on July 13, 2014, 05:25:10 AM
I figured it would grab nice, same as having 20" of clutch in a faster revving package.
Title: Re: Need advice on new Clutch plate /kit
Post by: sixty3 on July 13, 2014, 08:20:39 AM
Thanks Doug and everyone,

I must have been mislead thinking I could start in second. Lesson learned....I'm just hoping the flywheel will be usable  >:(

The car is still coming together as this will be its second full season on the road from a frame off restoration.  Its not a track car, only plan on taking it to the drag strip 2-3 times a year for Nostalgic races.  My wife says I'm hard on stuff and hope some day to build a 445c.i. to finish the project. Currently just have a stock 390 block and valvetrain, mild 262XE cam, RPM Perf. intake and Edel. carb, 2 1/2" headers usual bolt on stuff.

Thanks Kevin


RAM makes good stuff, but did you have their "stock" style clutch? If so, it would have a very limited life for any racing. And starting a burnout in 2nd will kill just about any clutch. Coupled together, a stock style clutch would last about.....oh, zero times.

You could get rid of the momentary switch and add a constant "on" switch for the burnout. That would make it hands free until your done. Just don't forget to toggle it back off :)

And if you fried the clutch, the flywheel is likely to be burnt also. If it's discolored from heat, it's junk. It only takes once....and just a couple seconds at that. Been there, done that ::)
Title: Pictures of Damage
Post by: sixty3 on July 13, 2014, 05:11:40 PM
first attempt at posting a picture so hope the quality is there
Title: more pictures
Post by: sixty3 on July 13, 2014, 05:19:41 PM
first attempt went fine so here is some more
Title: Re: Need advice on new Clutch plate /kit
Post by: sixty3 on July 13, 2014, 05:20:52 PM
and some more
Title: Re: Need advice on new Clutch plate /kit
Post by: sixty9cobra on July 13, 2014, 05:39:35 PM
I do my burnouts in 2nd but you wet the tires first. I also have the TKO600. This time out I got the tires good and hot and tore the perches off the rear and broke alot of expensive stuff. Check your welds on the perches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh09pHUpxqk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FgiXpr2v80
Title: Re: Need advice on new Clutch plate /kit
Post by: sixty9cobra on July 13, 2014, 05:44:15 PM
I hope you took out the pilot bearing?
Title: Re: Need advice on new Clutch plate /kit
Post by: sixty3 on July 13, 2014, 08:04:44 PM
Pilot bearing dropped out when I removed the clutch pack.  Hopping this is a good thing?  Didn't look damaged but will double check.

Looking at packages on Summit, Not sure what package I need to replace if the dealer can't get to me ASAP? Do I just measure the diameter of the shaft , count splines and measure diameter of flywheel to determine the correct kit?

Anything else you can mention I may need will be helpful, If I have the slightest chance to make this race I REALLY want to and at the same time do not want to have and drop this TKO anytime soon again.


Title: Re: Need advice on new Clutch plate /kit
Post by: fe66comet on July 13, 2014, 08:11:56 PM
Should be 1/8 28 spline, others may know better but generally all the ford transmissions are that input size. If you go with a twin disk clutch it should be the last one you ever buy. They are good for 1000 hp.
Title: Re: Need advice on new Clutch plate /kit
Post by: sixty9cobra on July 14, 2014, 05:08:55 AM
I belive its 26 spline. I bought mine from Brent he beat Summits prices. Was it a bronze pilot bearing? I bet the hole was way to big. The new clutch material kills the bronze-brass bearings. I put in a roller bearing.
Title: Re: Need advice on new Clutch plate /kit
Post by: sixty3 on July 14, 2014, 06:24:06 AM
Got Brent working on it now and yes it was a bronze bushing.  Is it more for alingment that anything else?  Wondering how a roller bearing will help? I'm cutting my teeth on manuals, so forgive the uneducated questions.
Title: Re: Need advice on new Clutch plate /kit
Post by: machoneman on July 14, 2014, 07:33:44 AM
Got Brent working on it now and yes it was a bronze bushing.  Is it more for alingment that anything else?  Wondering how a roller bearing will help? I'm cutting my teeth on manuals, so forgive the uneducated questions.

The bushing both supports the front of the input shaft from bending loads and allows the free spinning of the shaft when the clutch is in. The bushing should not have dropped out; this shows damage as noted earlier as the clutch dust does eat up the bearing. The sealed roller bearing is pretty much impervious to clutch dust and is a definite upgrade. Yet, the OEM bronze is fine as millions of miles have been piled up by OEM Fords (and other makes). Just don't smoke the clutch!

Btw, the pics look horrible. Unless a shop can machine the flywheel out of "blue" heat/scorch marks, I'd pitch everything inside the bellhousing. JMO.   
Title: Re: Need advice on new Clutch plate /kit
Post by: My427stang on July 14, 2014, 07:48:11 AM
I have run both Ram and McLeod, Ram is cheaper, but McLeod offers more choices and I like their product a bit better.

However, if it were me, I'd go with an aftermarket flywheel and a new clutch and pressure plate.  Old flywheels can come apart and you'll tear things up badly.  You could have yours resurfaced, but subtract the machining cost from the cost of one from Brent and you'll' see the leg, foot and floor insurance is cheap money.

I run a Ram Musclecar series in my truck from Summit and it works well, but I'd talk to Brent about his street packages, the Musclecar version is a cheaper line and although decent for my 445 truck, if you run them hard now and then, I'd go one step up. 

If the new pilot bushing fits tight, I wouldn't sweat it, put a new one in and go. 



Title: Re: Need advice on new Clutch plate /kit
Post by: sixty3 on July 14, 2014, 10:09:49 AM
The flywheel was a new Billet steel FE flywheel when we installed the TKO.  Picture may look worse than actually is.  I know how important this is, so will take precausions.  We plan on hitting it with a DA sander to clean up what little metal on metal there is ( only one area ) also plan on taking a straight edge and checking to make sure its not warped.

Title: Re: Need advice on new Clutch plate /kit
Post by: cjshaker on July 14, 2014, 01:17:55 PM
I'm not so sure I'd want to use a DA. Any little variation in depth will lead to chatter, and that's impossible to control with a hand tool. Machining is always best.
Title: Re: Need advice on new Clutch plate /kit
Post by: lovehamr on July 14, 2014, 02:04:08 PM
+1 on staying away from the D/A!  :o
Title: Re: Need advice on new Clutch plate /kit
Post by: My427stang on July 14, 2014, 02:12:32 PM
I agree to have it turned/ground.  The DA wont hurt anything, but it doesn't really DO anything either other than clean it up a little.

Since it's new, it can be cut a bunch of times, get some fresh metal, then the next clutch can bed properly
Title: Re: Need advice on new Clutch plate /kit
Post by: bn69stang on July 14, 2014, 06:08:00 PM
I will need some advice on a new flywheel , and clutch set up as well for my 434 inch 428 , i have McLeod now want one thatb is long lasting , durable ...Bud