FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: Barry_R on November 14, 2011, 08:47:49 AM
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Cross posting from the other forum...
I'll let the photos do the talking first...but will say that it is very much a buyer beware world out there.
This engine came in from a customer who wanted me to check out his ebay acquisition. Truth be know, it's not that bad of a deal money wise. But it is definitely not anywhere near being what the ad claimed it to be.
The ad - with the seller's ID obliterated in case the guy is one of those lawyer types...very clearly states that this is a 428 engine with a buch of very clearly claimed parts and dimensions. No gray areas.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e135/Barry_R/img002.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e135/Barry_R/img003.jpg)
The customer was charged roughly twice the normal shipping costs, plus a $150 crating fee. At least the box is nice, and the engine arrived in good condition.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e135/Barry_R/November122011107.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e135/Barry_R/November122011108.jpg)
Once we started taking things apart it became very obvious that this was not looking like a 428. No "A" or "C" scratch in the bellhousing, no "428" cast in the water jackets either center or ends. Actually has a visible "352" cast into the end interior front jacket floor. All the date codes and casting numbers have been removed from this "service" block... We noticed a lot of hone grit/dirt in the cylinders. We did not run a full range of sonic tests, but spot checked it assembled and found a bunch of readings around .102 to .120, along with a few under .100 - notably .082 on the front wall. Just to be confident we calibrated the sonic meter against the machined "china wall".
Would it run - yes. Would it be durable - who's to say. Is it a 428 - no freaking way.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e135/Barry_R/November122011157.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e135/Barry_R/November122011139.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e135/Barry_R/November122011160-Copy.jpg)
Since we know the block is bogus we checked the crank. It really is stamped "1U" and appears to be a real 428 crank. Cool. Ad claimes it is standard on both rods and mains - that is not true. Both bearings are clearly marked as .010 under Kings. A decent .010-.010 428 crank is worth half the sell price of the engine so I cannot understand the reasoning behing the "standard" claim.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e135/Barry_R/November122011125.jpg)
The rods were said to be factory 428 parts with ARP bolts. They are factory passenger car rods - might have come from any non-CJ 428. But the bolts are standard rebuilder stuff - definitely not ARP. And the ones we removed just kinda fell out of the rod. I took a picture of ARP parts for comparison.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e135/Barry_R/November122011119.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e135/Barry_R/November122011123.jpg)
Heads are said to be GT390 and they have the exhaust pattern to match, along with some rudimentary port work. Valves were claimed to be Manley Severe Duty 2.06 and 1.65 and they are definitely not. Stampings match up to $4 rebuilder parts and they are stock sized 2.03 and 1.56. Guides have bronze liners installed and exhaust I examined have had the seat replaced. Springs were said to be doubles at 1.55 OD - they are single with dampers (an honest mistake?) and stock sized, with factory 2 piece retainers. I thought all my old GT390s came with CJ style single retainers - can somebody correct/check this? Pictures tell the tale:
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e135/Barry_R/November122011112.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e135/Barry_R/November122011110.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e135/Barry_R/November122011167-Copy.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e135/Barry_R/November122011169.jpg)
I have LOTS more pictures, but its safe to say that this ebay 428 is not anywhere close to being legitimate - please, please, please be careful out there. There are not very many "super deals" in this hobby, and NONE of them are coming from ads like this!
Barry Rabotnick
Survivalmotorsports.com
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For most of us these are life long dreams and it can really
put a sour taste in your mouth.
His engine is in good hands now.
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Really nice, informative post, Barry. Thanks for putting it here. I'll stand by the statement in my book that steers people to you if they want an honest FE engine build - Jay
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Thanks Barry. That's why I prefer dealing with reputable people face to face.
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Barry,
My 67 390 GT mustang had the cj springs on it. I bought it early 80's and the engine/heads looked original, but who knows.
I have also read that is what they came with.
Good info on the epay FE seller, there's more than him out there as you well know, after checking out/redoing my Edelbrock heads.
I'll be coming to you for my stroker kit or short block, I imagine. ;D
Thanks again for the great post. You gotta love the grit in the cylinders! ::)
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Very cool of you Barry. It's one thing to 'say' someone is getting the shaft, but quite another to supply pictures, text, etc. to back up your statements. Well done!
Btw, I used to give the benefit of the doubt to most. No more, just the facts, but thankfully I haven't been personally burned.
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Thanks Barry! Sucks that people get taken and not honest about anything :o
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performing miracles, that home-brewed 428 is miles from a genuine 428. How much of "That" can be used for it's intended purpose based on the discription? (need I remind the seller even stated ready for Nitrous) The buyer was sold on he was bidding on a 428 and was blatently lied to. All the individual things add up to make what eBay calls in disputes "substantionally not as described". Unfortunately disputes on eBay are costly to buyers supposedly not allowing for shipping which Barry said was double and the description said $300-$900. and $150 packing. JMHO Having been down the road the dispute is best if filed on the credit card and or secondly with PayPal but if you want to be driven into madness with complete mindless morons - file the dispute with eBay! .........Filing with any one of three negates filing with the other two so choose wisely.
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The engine seems more like an old Jasper Co. rebuild than anything else. Funny, I haven't heard of them for some years now. Maybe they went out of business and spared many a future customer frustration with badly mismatched, unbalanced and just plain worn-out internals! I never had one btw but had plenty of folks bring me one for inspection....always a bad scene. At least they were consistent :D
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of the sale w/o pissing hundreds and hundreds in shipping charges etc.. Having recently returned an item it seems disputes are far from getting back to where you started and a nightmare to go through thanks to eBays and PayPals mindless Customer No Service. Barry made the case the sale was grossly far and away from what was supposed to be there.
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Hey Barry, what was/is the resolution here? Are you doing the engine over or did he attempt to return it?
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Engine has been reassembled as it was delivered and returned to the seller. They are going through the ebay resolution process. Seller told the customer to simply "enjoy the engine or resell it"....
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Barry very good info thanks. I see the seller has the same ad up again with a $4500 BIN. Yikes. At least your customer got it for much less. It'll be interesting to see how it gets resolved. Please let us know. G.
Item # 230707035690
Sorry didn't know how to add the link. :D
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/230707035690?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dp3984.m570.l1313%26_nkw%3D230707035690%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1
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Thanks Jim.