FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: cjshaker on May 05, 2014, 08:32:41 PM
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I've been brainstorming my parts list for a drag engine and began to think about any tricks I could pull to gain some HP. While thinking of the old Pro Stock 351C trick of cutting off the exhaust port and making a port plate to raise the exit location, has anybody tried cutting off the exhaust ports on an FE? Being that the exhaust ports are exposed so far back into the head, there would be a lot to gain in exhaust exiting and header design....in a non-shocktowered car of course.
I know there is a water jacket behind the outside of the head surface, but knowing a very good TIG welder, it would be possible to weld on a port with a much more friendly upward cant on an aluminum head. With a little extra weld built up, it could be ported nicely for a smooth port exit. Anybody ever tried or seen this done on an FE head design? Or am I just nuts (feel free to skip that last question).
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Rather than skip the last question, I would like to confirm that you ARE nuts, just like the rest of us ;D
I did that raised port trick with a set of 429 SCJ heads back in the 80s, and I did hit the water jacket. I was able to use the port plate to seal against the head with RTV and it never leaked. So, I wouldn't be afraid to go for it if I were you.
I never tried it with an FE car because all my FE cars back then were shock tower cars, and when I got into the cammers several years ago there was no need to do something like that.
If you go forward, Doug, I'm sure there are some benefits to be gained in flow. Make sure you post lots of pictures...
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I'm going to study the head designs better and see where it leads me. Even if only the top part were cut away back to the head wall, there should be a lot to gain, as long as the port floor is also raised to match the top. Fenderwell headers are the obvious choice here.
Does anybody have a link to cutaway pictures of Edelbrock or BT heads?
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I know I have seen it done maybe it was Clyde Detrick from garden city Michigan .
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Why not just get the Dove heads with their raised exhaust ports? The Blue Thunders are raised .400" and that's enough for me. I experimented welding the top of the exhaust port on iron TunnelPorts and it did make some big gains. Made custom header flanges that had 5/16" threaded top holes and the header bolts went in from the back through the existing 3/8" threaded holes to clear the upward exiting pipes..
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Tom, I'm not a big fan of Dove stuff because of their spotty quality issues. I've seen too many guys have to sink big money into them to make them useable.
I originally planned on using the BT heads, and may still. I have a few cars to choose from for this build and none are shocktowered, so I'd like to take advantage of smooth gentle radius fenderwell headers. Keeping an upward flow for the exhaust would make good sense, as long as it doesn't turn into an S shaped port.
I'm having trouble picturing how you did yours. Where did you weld? Since the upper bolt limits how far of an upward path you can take, I cant picture your upward flowing exhaust without getting into that S shape. I figured I'd have to do custom flanges or something available with the right port spacing.
I'm going to take a junk head first and cut the port back to the head and see what that leaves me. I can determine from there what is to be gained. I have also considered welding up the tops of the ports on a BT to have more room to raise the port exit even higher. It may be a case of more ambition than brains, but the cutaway should tell me more. Having a friend with a machine shop helps.
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Doug, I found this cut away, not sure if it's what you are looking for as I don't really understand what you guys are talking about anyway...
http://www.race-mart.com/Edelbrock-EDE-60079.html
Also this one of a Felony head.
http://www.mustangandfords.com/parts/1309-survival-motorsports-new-fe-cylinder-head/photo-gallery/#3
And one more:
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=526863
Dave J
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Hey, you're onto something.
The exhaust pic seems to show one could whack off the entire top of the port and add a plate ala' the old 351C pro stock trick. 'Course, the bottom of the head's port likely need to be filled in as well to make the transition to the new higher roof. That and eliminating most of the R-L-R-L angle of the ports to straighten them out, with the need then of course for a special header flange and new tubes. In fact, I wonder if a 351C or 429-460 plate that is unported (small opening to allow special porting) would match up. 'Course a big hunk of aluminum bar stock and some machining does the same thing. Very interesting!
http://www.mustangandfords.com/parts/1309-survival-motorsports-new-fe-cylinder-head/photo-gallery/#3
http://www.pricemotorsport.com/html/body_high_port_exhaust.html
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Hey Doug here's a link to some iron head cross section pics. I think Bob Sprowl did them.
http://www.fordfe.info/HeadSections/Cross1.html
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Thanks for the links guys. I went to my machinist friend to pick up some steel for making my new spring compressor. I finally got my OpenTracker roller spring perches and did NOT want to use the spring compressor I recently bought, so I'll be making one. I took an old C6 head to him to have him cut the exhaust port off. He said stop back in about a week.
I was aware of Barrys and Bobs cross section pictures but can't find any of the Edelbrock or Blue Thunder heads on the exhaust side. They always show the intake. They are useful for determining the water jacket location at the bottom, but not much else. The idea is to cut them down level with the lower head bolt boss or as low as is possible without getting into the waterjacket, and back nearly parallel with the valvecover rail. I don't really want to do a plate deal, which would require a bunch of CAD designing and machining, which I know nothing about. :( That way I won't get into spark plug accessibility issues like the Cleveland and the Lima engines plate systems. They have angle milled slots for spark plug access and are bolted onto the head
Instead, I'm thinking more of welding on a fairly thick aluminum tube and keeping it tied (welded) to the head. Or more accurately, using the top portion of a rectangular tube by cutting off the bottom, shaping and angling it to fit the head while keeping an upward flow path and filling the whole bottom area with weld so it can be ported, then welding on a good flange for the header. I can fab the headers. The down side to this idea is that it adds a lot of aluminum material over the waterjacket making it less efficient around that area. Not sure what the consequences of that would be, but if it's all quality work, I'm thinking it would be negligible. I wouldn't even attempt this if it weren't for knowing an old friend who is a master at TIG welding and having a friend who owns a machine shop who is very good. Otherwise that stuff would cost me a lot of money to have done. While I've got years of practice and have my own MIG welder, I never learned to TIG weld.
Hmmmm, come to think of it, before I get too far into my idea....I better ask him if he would even consider welding them up for me. :o
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I've done some metal removal cut-aways with a die grinder here and there including around the exhausts that allow measuring but don't photograph well. I can say you are correct to be concerned about the water jacketing on the outer edges above the ex-ports (the center above the ex-port is solid). What I don't understand on your project is the area just under the valve cover seal to me is safe and free of water jacketing and you could vastly improve the port angle by working on that area and out to your new header. From what I recall of the 351C ex-port mods they did not come out and aim all that high as if for the moon.
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Here's what a finished 351C port-plated exhaust looks like. Now that is a radically changed port only for a non-shock tower car. Amazingly, they were only good for about a 20-25 hp gain, this on a almost all-out Pro Stock styled engine.
See my December 2011 post
"Afret, can't tell you about FE header dyno tests and due to competition, Blair and others may not want to reveal same either. Long ago though some fellow racers with a high 10 second car did the 351C hi-port aluminum plate conversion that Ford's own O.H.O. tech back then stated was good for about 20-25 h.p. But they did so in a std. Maverick chassis and the custom header tubes, as required, had sharp bends right out of the exhaust ports, hence no e.t. improvement to speak of. The next season, they dumped the OEM underhood sheet metal, went the 1/2 chassis route and added nice new custom headers with at least 6"-7" of straight tube before the headers started the downward turn. They did then pickup IIRC about a tenth or .15 in e.t.
I've wondered too in high hp applications like SS just how much hp is hindered due to the need to keep the OEM inner panels in place and run sharp downturns, unlike Gas and Super Gas classes with those nice, easy turn headers."
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What I don't understand on your project is the area just under the valve cover seal to me is safe and free of water jacketing and you could vastly improve the port angle by working on that area and out to your new header.
BB, that is exactly the area I'm talking about. Parallel with the valvecover rail, and down to the bottom of the port....only as far down as is necessary to come to the area of the port floor downturn. I should be able to avoid water that way and it should be cut back far enough to eliminate the downturn of the upper section. As I think about it, I may not even have to go down all that far. Maybe just enough to cut away the top of the port. It would be better to keep as much of the casting as possible to maintain integrity. The lower port floor downturn can be filled in with weld and just raise the port roof.
If I was good with photoshop or something, I could post a picture of what I'm envisioning in my mind. When I get the head back, I can use cardboard and clay to fashion a crude idea of what I'm talking about.
Here's what a finished 351C port-plated exhaust looks like. Now that is a radically changed port only for a non-shock tower car. Amazingly, they were only good for about a 20-25 hp gain, this on a almost all-out Pro Stock styled engine.
I've wondered too in high hp applications like SS just how much hp is hindered due to the need to keep the OEM inner panels in place and run sharp downturns, unlike Gas and Super Gas classes with those nice, easy turn headers."
Bob, that is about the angle I envision. 20-25 hp isn't bad for no other changes, in my opinion. At those levels, hp is harder to come by. NOT that I'll be pushing Pro-Stock level horsepower ;D Realistically I was hoping to get into the 700 hp range and keep it reliable. Being able to use a little less lift and duration would really help in that department, and a good flowing exhaust coupled with Jays intake adapter with a tunnel ram would make for a nice breathing FE.
Actually, my only concern is whether or not the modifications could handle the high temperatures of the exhaust. I would guess that it will have to be a fairly thick tube and made of high quality aluminum. Something else I'll have to look into.
If the cut head looks promising, I can move this into the projects section. I'm hoping to be able to purchase a set of heads soon. It would be nice to see some real world examples and cutaways of the BBM heads also, but with the BT head already having a .400 raised port, that may be the best starting point.
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On my Tunnel Ports that were cracked between the valves and had sunk exhaust seats it was just adding to the welding that was done. Otherwise i'm sure the $600 i paid then (late 80's) would still apply to just the exhaust port stuff. What they did was weld the floors of the exhaust in about and inch and around 1/2" deep. The tops of the outsides of the ports were welded up with about 1/4" extra material. The little ribs was gone, the whole port top was that level. I raised the ports around 1/2" at the exit which is pretty much where the Blue Thunder ports are already and i'm going to raise those higher.
You can't do much about the depth of the valve bowl.
The Doves are a better solution i'd say. They can be bought with a variety of chambers and ports , it'd be worth any issues that might occur.
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My uncle's 57 Custom had a 63 406 in it and ran a consistent 13.10 with the standard, down turn exhausts (I don't remember if he had the shortys or not). He built a set of headers that were swept up then down out the fenderwells (inner fenders removed of course) behind the tires and went 12.51. This was on the old, hard 7" slicks. With all this talk of modifying FE exhaust ports I'd think if one could back-cut the flange (take a small wedge out of the top) and tilt the flange back to allow the exhaust more upward travel before changing direction we'd be surprised by the results, :). On my uncle's 57 the headers came within an inch from the underside of the tops of the fenders. This kept the 'leaners' from spending too much time looking, "eww, ahh, ew, daamn", :), RodC
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Now that Rod is a great idea. Maybe JDC could 'do' a scrap head and check the flow.
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Rod, that is an interesting idea. I'll look into it a little more when I get the head back, but I think there will be more to gain by going back to the valve cover rail. I AM thinking that not near as much of the port will need cut off as I originally was thinking. Basically just take the top off and raise the angle. No need to cut the sides, and the bottom can be filled. That would help maintain as much port wall strength as is possible. I stopped to get the head today, but he didn't have it done. He said to stop back Monday.
And Bob, I have thought about seeing if Joe would be willing to port the heads, but I'm not sure if he would be willing to get involved in this. And since the whole engine/car combo will cost me enough, I'll be trying to do as much work as I'm able to on my own. With some help from a couple old friends in the machining and TIG welding though.
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On my Tunnel Ports that were cracked between the valves and had sunk exhaust seats it was just adding to the welding that was done. Otherwise i'm sure the $600 i paid then (late 80's) would still apply to just the exhaust port stuff. What they did was weld the floors of the exhaust in about and inch and around 1/2" deep. The tops of the outsides of the ports were welded up with about 1/4" extra material. The little ribs was gone, the whole port top was that level. I raised the ports around 1/2" at the exit which is pretty much where the Blue Thunder ports are already and i'm going to raise those higher.
You can't do much about the depth of the valve bowl.
The Doves are a better solution i'd say. They can be bought with a variety of chambers and ports , it'd be worth any issues that might occur.
What Dove refers to as his 'Second Design' exhaust ports are raised, they're spread laterally to straighten out the runners, and reshaped. At the flange face the openings are an almost-oval with one lower corner somewhat filled-in.
The heads look so different on the exhaust side that they're not instantly recognizable as FE pieces. They require custom headers. A rolled-up piece of paper inserted in the runner on such a head---mounted on a block in the chassis---will point UP---at an angle of course.
KS
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I will flow that for you, no charge, you ship. However, unless someone comes up with a regular intake port that will flow over 300-310cfm for the iron heads, then increasing the exhaust flow by extra-ordinary means is kind of a waste of money. Most street/strip engines work best with ~70-72% intake/exhaust port flow bias, and you can port most iron heads to achieve this percentage. Headers pull most heads up to above that flow bias, and with camshafts that have more exhaust duration than the intake, then they compensate for the poorer flow bias by holding the valve open slightly longer with the duration increase. So an intake port that flows 280cfm at valve lift, only needs the exhaust to flow 196cfm which most FE heads can be made to flow. What the FE world needs is a small port 2.150" valve that flows 360cfm, and the exhaust 1.600" that flows 252cfm. That would be a neat street/strip head for the masses. Joe-JDC
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With 8mm stems. Sort of like a smallblock AFR185 but for FE's. I think Barry's heads are as close as we get.
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Of course no matter what heads you'd have to offer them as a whole package, intake, cam, pistons, etc... with no substitutions to keep somebody from screwing up the combo because they want to leave their 75 truck pistons in there or use grandads old 3 Stromberg setup.
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I will flow that for you, no charge, you ship. However, unless someone comes up with a regular intake port that will flow over 300-310cfm for the iron heads, then increasing the exhaust flow by extra-ordinary means is kind of a waste of money. Joe-JDC
Somehow I missed these last posts. Thank you for the offer, Joe. I was contemplating doing this on an aluminum set of heads with very good intake flow numbers on a big inch build using my Genesis block and a stroker crank. So the improvement in the exhaust would have been worthwhile I believe. I just had the iron head cut to get an idea of what I would be looking at port-wise. I know there would be differences between the iron and aluminum, but it would at least give me an idea of what to expect without experimenting on a new set of aluminum heads.
I finally got the head back. I just had him cut one exhaust top off, and from what I can see there would be a LOT to gain if the port were continued in an upward travel with custom headers. Here's some pictures of the cut head.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/cjshaker/IMAG4913.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/cjshaker/media/IMAG4913.jpg.html)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/cjshaker/IMAG4914.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/cjshaker/media/IMAG4914.jpg.html)
These angles show how the port is really still in a near vertical angle as it exits the head. If the angle were continued with a gentle slope outward, it would make for a nice smooth flowing exhaust port.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/cjshaker/IMAG4916.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/cjshaker/media/IMAG4916.jpg.html)
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/cjshaker/IMAG4919.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/cjshaker/media/IMAG4919.jpg.html)
This shot shows how the height is essentially the same as it exits the head, as it is when it exits the exhaust port. But given the vertical angle of the port at the head exit, it really shows how sharply the port bends in that short area in between.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/cjshaker/IMAG4920.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/cjshaker/media/IMAG4920.jpg.html)
Unfortunately I ran into a major snag. After speaking with my friend who is a retired welder, I found out that his only welder is an air cooled TIG unit, and according to him he can not build enough heat to weld thick stuff. You need a water cooled TIG unit for that. I have lots of MIG experience, but no TIG experience, so that was new to me. I just assumed that the water cooled units were the professional high duty cycle set-ups and didn't realize it had anything to do with heat output and penetration on thick parts.
This is a major bummer for me because this was only going to happen if I could do it cheaply (but still professionally). If I had to send this out or pay somebody professional rates to weld up 8 ports, then it would be an investment more than I could readily afford. I had considered getting my own TIG unit before (just an air cooled unit), but the water cooled jobs are NOT cheap, and I can't justify the costs for one project. I still believe though, that if JUST the tops of the ports were cut off so that the bottom of the port could be welded up to maintain cross section, then weld up the top with layers of weld so that the port could be ground out with a much more favorable angle, that it would be a nice and worthwhile improvement in a non-shocktowered car.
So I guess I'm back to looking at the raised port BT heads and just port the exhausts up as much as is acceptable for flow. :(
Anybody need a head with 3 exhaust ports?...LOL
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Doug, I think you should consider going outside to have the welding done. You would only need to weld the floors of the port to raise it up where you have made the cut; a machined plate with ports cut it in could do the rest. I'll bet just adding weld material in that area wouldn't be real expensive, maybe $200-$300 for a pair of heads. I like the general idea, and have been thinking about that for FE heads since the '80s, when the raised port Clevelands and 429-460 engines were being done. It would be great to find out just how much flow you could gain doing that...
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Doug, I think you should consider going outside to have the welding done. You would only need to weld the floors of the port to raise it up where you have made the cut; a machined plate with ports cut it in could do the rest. I'll bet just adding weld material in that area wouldn't be real expensive, maybe $200-$300 for a pair of heads. I like the general idea, and have been thinking about that for FE heads since the '80s, when the raised port Clevelands and 429-460 engines were being done. It would be great to find out just how much flow you could gain doing that...
Actually, I hadn't given up totally on the idea yet. The guy who cut the head has a full machine shop including 2, 5 axis CNC machines and does some CAD designing. And it just so happens his son is into cars and is learning CAD design, so maybe I can work with him on this. I would however, like to keep the individual ports rather than a plate deal, just to keep some resemblance to the FE head design. So that really pushes me to the welding idea rather than plates.
I'm going to go ahead and get some BT heads and do alot of measuring and talk to some local experienced welders and see what they can tell me. With the General Dynamics/Abrams tank plant nearby, there are plenty of experienced and out of work welders in the area that are more than capable of doing the job. I'll just have to see how things work out.
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You should look at the Dove 'Type Two' design for exhaust ports. He raised them, re-shaped them into an oval with one bottom corner filled-in and changed the spread---all to increase the flow. With the heads on a block in an engine compartment, a rolled-up sheet of paper shoved into such an exhaust port points UP at about a 60* angle. You have to remove the spring towers in a Mustang to use them. And build custom headers.
KS
(What you see here is an example of 'Old Fart Brain Fade'. I made the first post, above, a whole month ago. You can't expect me to remember things like that, can you?)
KS
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It still is important to remember that you need arount 70-72% exhaust flow bias of whatever intake flow you obtain. Barry's new aluminum head is capable of 360cfm, and 250+cfm on the exhaust. The Edelbrock Pro Ports can be ported with a round exhaust port, and I am in the process of porting a set to try to come up with just how much can be had with those heads. I fully expect the Pro Ports to be topdog for flow if they can be gotten large enough as cast. Joe-JDC.
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You should look at the Dove 'Type Two' design for exhaust ports. He raised them, re-shaped them into an oval with one bottom corner filled-in and changed the spread---all to increase the flow. With the heads on a block in an engine compartment, a rolled-up sheet of paper shoved into such an exhaust port points UP at about a 60* angle. You have to remove the spring towers in a Mustang to use them. And build custom headers.
KS
Thanks, Ken. I have not seen those heads before. I'll try to find some info and check them out. I have never been real impressed with the quality of the Dove products I've seen over the years, but occasionally you do see some nice pieces.
It still is important to remember that you need arount 70-72% exhaust flow bias of whatever intake flow you obtain. Barry's new aluminum head is capable of 360cfm, and 250+cfm on the exhaust. The Edelbrock Pro Ports can be ported with a round exhaust port, and I am in the process of porting a set to try to come up with just how much can be had with those heads. I fully expect the Pro Ports to be topdog for flow if they can be gotten large enough as cast. Joe-JDC.
Thanks again, Joe. Very good info. I was surprised when I saw the exhaust ports of Blairs Pro Port heads. First time I had seen that style of round port on an FE head, and they looked very nice. Since I will be gathering pieces for this build over the next year, hopefully you will find out your results and post them here. It should be interesting. This is why I have been trying to gather some flow numbers from all the aftermarket heads.
I do have a question though, is there a disadvantage to having an exhaust port that would flow over the 70-72% rule? Or is that what is considered a minimum for max power/minimum pumping loss?
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You need a spray metal torch Doug!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXqVO6hFEUI
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Yes, it will overscavenge the incoming fuel, and get poor gas mileage, not make as much horsepower. Today's camshafts aren't designed for that effecient of an exhaust port on the FE, and it would be a total relearning curve. You can get by with close to 80%, but the power starts to fall off, and the mileage goes away in a hurry. I ported a set of SBF heads once that flowed 83% of the intake flow without a pipe, and that engine ran terrible, got awful mileage, and the exhaust valve, port, header, plugs were always fouled, black mess. I have since studied many engine theories, and read everything I can find on that particular subject, and it seems to be that the pumping efficiencies always perform well at or near the 70% bias. That is why many ford cams have more exhaust duration than the intake, and for Nitrous, or blower engines, they spread the exhaust bias with even more duration to allow more time for the exhaust to escape. Those cams on a regular engine will not perform well in a non-nitrous engine all else being the same. Anyway, sometimes we try to re-invent the wheel, only to find it was already figured out fairly well, and it becomes a waste of time, energy, and money to just satisfy a curiosity. BTDT too many times when working on these older engines. ;)Joe-JDC.
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Having done a lot of aluminum tig welding on many different things I'll throw in a few thoughts. First thing is You will need to bolt the head to a block on an engine stand for two reasons. One being the head will warp doing that much welding and bolted down will help a lot to hold its straightness. 2nd would be You could set the head at an angle comfortable to weld.
Using an older tig welder with a water cooled torch and using a helium argon mix will help but still need preheating and will transfer ALOT of heat to the head. Enough to maybe make the seats fall out. You use a helium mix when welding thinner matl to thick matl. Also for cast aluminum it takes way less time to melt the metal so You can begin welding.You would want to move around from port to port to help keep warpage down. What You really want is someone who has a new Miller Dynasty tig welder. They have all the newer technology on AC to do just what your after. No preheat and no helium just set the machine properly and go for it. All the best aluminum weld shops have them. Those pretty Hogan manifolds and super nice looking repairs on aluminum blocks are now done with these welders. I have a watercooled Miller 300 amp machine thats about 30 yrs old it will weld about anything but not even close to what these new machines do. I do want to buy one but they are 4 k for a 200 amp with not even a footpedal just the bare machine. Make sure the weldor You choose is good, see some work Hes done dont take His word for it. Iv'e tested hundreds of weldors over the years and few were as good as they said. FEDER
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Yes, it will overscavenge the incoming fuel, and get poor gas mileage, not make as much horsepower. Today's camshafts aren't designed for that effecient of an exhaust port on the FE, and it would be a total relearning curve. You can get by with close to 80%, but the power starts to fall off, and the mileage goes away in a hurry. I ported a set of SBF heads once that flowed 83% of the intake flow without a pipe, and that engine ran terrible, got awful mileage, and the exhaust valve, port, header, plugs were always fouled, black mess. I have since studied many engine theories, and read everything I can find on that particular subject, and it seems to be that the pumping efficiencies always perform well at or near the 70% bias. ;)Joe-JDC.
Joe, thanks for that very good information. I'm going to wait and see what kind of numbers you come up with and then evaluate what intake flow numbers I'll need for my engine build. Then I can determine what exhaust flow numbers will be needed using that rule.
Having done a lot of aluminum tig welding on many different things I'll throw in a few thoughts. First thing is You will need to bolt the head to a block on an engine stand for two reasons. One being the head will warp doing that much welding and bolted down will help a lot to hold its straightness. 2nd would be You could set the head at an angle comfortable to weld.
Using an older tig welder with a water cooled torch and using a helium argon mix will help but still need preheating and will transfer ALOT of heat to the head. Enough to maybe make the seats fall out. You use a helium mix when welding thinner matl to thick matl. Also for cast aluminum it takes way less time to melt the metal so You can begin welding.You would want to move around from port to port to help keep warpage down. What You really want is someone who has a new Miller Dynasty tig welder. They have all the newer technology on AC to do just what your after. No preheat and no helium just set the machine properly and go for it. All the best aluminum weld shops have them. Those pretty Hogan manifolds and super nice looking repairs on aluminum blocks are now done with these welders. I have a watercooled Miller 300 amp machine thats about 30 yrs old it will weld about anything but not even close to what these new machines do. I do want to buy one but they are 4 k for a 200 amp with not even a footpedal just the bare machine. Make sure the weldor You choose is good, see some work Hes done dont take His word for it. Iv'e tested hundreds of weldors over the years and few were as good as they said. FEDER
Thanks, Feder. I considered myself a fairly capable MIG welder, just from years of experience. But TIG is a whole new ballgame and NOTHING like MIG. Just too much money involved for me to get into the scene. I had no idea the setups were so darned expensive until I started looking into it :o