FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: jayb on April 20, 2014, 09:22:04 AM
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Every once in a while I see something from a "professional" engine builder that is nearly beyond belief. Yesterday a friend of mine brought over some pieces from an engine that was built by a now-defunct shop called Pop's Performance. I've heard that these guys were really bad, but still couldn't believe what I saw. They started with a brand new Pond aluminum block, and decided to bore it to 4.375". That is way, way over the recommended maximum bore specified by Pond. The engine went together and according to my friend (who is tasked with fixing this mess), the engine didn't make good power and it smoked like hell. After teardown it was clear that the steel sleeves in the block had been way overbored. The sleeves were all pulled out of the block; here are a couple of them:
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/popsleeve1.jpg)
First thing is, after the overbore those sleeves are paper thin on one edge. No support left there at all. Second, they didn't even bore them on center; one side of the sleeve is much thicker than the other, although not thick enough. At the bottom of the sleeve I could squeeze it out of round with my hand:
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/popsleeve2.jpg)
The customer paid $25K for this engine. It still amazes and saddens me that in this day and age some businesses will be this dishonest with their customers. Buyer beware...
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Pops has been an equal opportunity (i.e all engine makes) destroyer of many an engine. Their name, for years now, has popped up on many a Web-based forum for doing all kinds of shady things and downright dishonest practices. I'm amazed that with all the bad press, anyone would trust them with even a Radio Flyer wagon!
Check this out:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/thread/1357514595/POPS+Performance,+Kentucky+status
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Saw one for myself a few years ago- a longblock bought by the owner of a large collection, for an original HM 63-1/2 NASCAR Galaxie. Supposedly dyno tested, all "correct" blah blah. My friend who has a race resto shop went to install it, and when they tilted the back down to drop it in, the oil started running out of the back in a pretty good stream. Off to my neighbor's shop, tore down, and what a mess- and messed up parts. It had a press- plug steel crank (way undersize of course), but I have never seen anyone put a crank in an engine in anything close to that condition. First was very obvious- a couple of the plugs had been replaced with screw-in versions, but crooked and not seated deep enough, and the remaining press-ins had no snap rings. Pull the caps, journals pretty rough, but the real seal was the worst, rust-pitted so badly that there was no way a seal could be expected to hold- really bad. Considering that the rest of the journals were way undersize, and the rest of the crank was also pitted, not hard to figure out- scrap pile rusty crank, ground to "fix". Rods were in similar shape, heads were half-assed "rebuilt", non- matching valves etc. They called me, look at this crap, so I brought down a cherry std steel crank, the rods also got tossed, and heads completely re-done. Of course the owner paid pretty good money for that engine "built on Biblical principles" :o
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Just so there's no confusion for people who don't know, this is not POPS as in Precision Oil Pumps. Doug is a good guy (he has to be with a name like that :) ).
I can't fathom how somebody can be so ignorant about such butchery without it being done on purpose. Even a rookie should know better. GLAD to hear the guy is finally out of business though, just sad that so many people lost so much money. Probably enough to cause many to just give up and sell their project. Sad :( Unfortunately, I've seen it happen often enough, the guy will probably just go into business doing something else....with the same results. You can't look at it any other way than just plain thievery.
At least the block is saveable. That's more than most who have dealt with him can say. If he had hit aluminum, it would have been over with. It does show that you have to research before you put your trust into somebody. To do otherwise is just not a wise idea.
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Saw a lot of that when working for Performance Auto for Kenny Santfort. What a mess someone can make out of even the simple stuff like grinding valves to the point of no margins and the stem is ground to the keeper.
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It amazes me how long the shady builders can get by before finally doing themselves in. Years in POPs case. I'm surprised somebody didn't get shot. The POPs auctions on epay were memorable too. They had a religious spin as I recall.
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Yeah, I got a phone call from the guy that bought that engine, asking for advice....
Poor guy.
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Yeah, and it's not just that guy. I bought the Galaxie for the body and FE, being from PA the rust free unit was all I really wanted and about all I got. At some point I'll catalogue what was wrong with the 390 when I took it down, it was depressing. I've gotta think the previous owner paid somebody to build it 'cause no sane person would spend their hard earned cash building something that was guaranteed to fail.
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Unless it was a Jasper engine! ::) They were another equal opportunity engine rebuilder.....everyone got a shi**y engine...LOL!
Yeah, and it's not just that guy. I bought the Galaxie for the body and FE, being from PA the rust free unit was all I really wanted and about all I got. At some point I'll catalogue what was wrong with the 390 when I took it down, it was depressing. I've gotta think the previous owner paid somebody to build it 'cause no sane person would spend their hard earned cash building something that was guaranteed to fail.
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Is just the block shot or did it ruin everything else too?
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Is just the block shot or did it ruin everything else too?
The block may be OK, it's sitting at .060" over with no ridge and clearly visible cross hatch, not many miles since put together (no idea on wall thickness). I pulled it before disaster struck, it was going to swallow a valve or launch a rod, now I won't know which but I'm betting on the valve. I haven't flipped it to search the source of the knock, but after viewing the top end decided to get on with the good stuff and look at that later.
Top end had fresh '66 iron heads w/adjustable factory rockers, some bottomed out. Three different length push rods (all too short) valve stems beat to hell (#1 intake has a valley ground at least 1/16" deep, was not gonna last).
The short block is currently sitting in my wheelbarrow where it can't harm itself until I turn my attention back to it. I'm hoping to bring it back to life, should be able to if wall thickness checks out.
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Jay Was the original pond block block with the Darton sleeves worthless too? Or was the rotating assembly/block damaged by the sleeve failure/bore mistake that they couldn't be used?
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The Pond block was fine after 8 new sleeves were installed. That is one really nice thing about aluminum blocks; you can just pop in new sleeves and start fresh.
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Shocking that those guys are still around! And to do work like that .... Very sad.
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Amazing some part did not go into "catastrophic failure" with those paper thin walls. Likely no one loaded the motor hard before it got torn down - the not making power helped. How on earth could anyone do such stupid maneuvers when they at least had to have the ability to run a boring machine/order pistons?
So are they called POPS MOTORS because the MOTORS GO POPS ?