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FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: cjshaker on April 18, 2014, 04:30:06 AM

Title: My new Canton oil filter...
Post by: cjshaker on April 18, 2014, 04:30:06 AM
I don't want this to sound or come across as a sales pitch, just wanted to share something new I decided to go with on my engine.

After some lengthy discussions and talks with people much smarter than me, I came to the realization that pretty much all oil filters with by-passes in them go into a "float" mode when you have high oil pressure. In other words they pass unfiltered oil through to the engine, usually when it's cold. That much I always knew. But if you have high oil pressure, which I'm a fan of healthy oil pressure, then the filter will remain in that "float" mode and pass unfiltered oil even when it's warm. That would explain some pictures of trash in crank and rod journals that I've seen over the years, as debris can pass through the filter and even the pump, and make it to your bearings.

I didn't like that idea, so it came up about the Canton full flow oil filters which had no bypass, but could flow plenty of oil cold due to a much bigger filter area that can flow 45 gallons a minute. I decided to try one out. They have replaceable cartridges and are easily disassembled so you can check it easily for any metallics in the filter media.

Here's a couple shots of it....

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/cjshaker/IMAG4747.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/cjshaker/media/IMAG4747.jpg.html)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/cjshaker/IMAG4748.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/cjshaker/media/IMAG4748.jpg.html)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/cjshaker/IMAG4750.jpg) (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/cjshaker/media/IMAG4750.jpg.html)

Seems to be a pretty nice piece, quality made. It's a little on the heavy side....about double the weight of a stock filter due to it's thick aluminum housing. It's narrower but taller. It filters down to 8 micron which seems to be the consensus for minimum filtration for wear particles. And it's expensive! But I figured I had enough effort invested in everything that I didn't mind spending a comparably small amount to know it will have full filtered oil all the time. It's also a little too "bling" for my tastes ::). The only other billet piece on the whole car is the MSD distributor, but I guess I can live with that. At least it's Ford blue 8)
It also does not have an anti-drainback valve, but I don't believe that's even an issue with a vertical oil filter.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with regular oil filters. They've worked just fine for me for years. And I wouldn't put this on any old street car. It would be near impossible to justify the expense for a daily driver. I just wanted to try something different on my 427 that I saw was an extra step of insurance.
Title: Re: My new Canton oil filter...
Post by: GJCAT427 on April 18, 2014, 05:18:16 AM
Which part # is it? Where did you get it through? Garry(GJCAT427)
Title: Re: My new Canton oil filter...
Post by: cjshaker on April 18, 2014, 05:29:10 AM
Which part # is it? Where did you get it through? Garry(GJCAT427)

Garry, Cantons part # is 25-464. The replacement cartridges come in 6-paks and their # is 26-120. I just got it through Summit Racing.
Title: Re: My new Canton oil filter...
Post by: My427stang on April 18, 2014, 06:41:52 AM
Any issues with room  for it on a Mustang?
Title: Re: My new Canton oil filter...
Post by: jayb on April 18, 2014, 07:02:37 AM
That's a nice looking setup.  Back in the '80s I started running Fram filters that fit Ferrari engines because they did not have the bypass valve, but if I recall correctly they did have an anti-drainback valve.  They looked just like a Fram PH8A filter, but screwed right onto the FE adapter.  I should look into whether those are still available...
Title: Re: My new Canton oil filter...
Post by: afret on April 18, 2014, 09:54:36 AM
Been using one for awhile.  Really like the idea of no bypass.  Looks like they changed the design a bit. 

(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s156/oldafretired/IMG_2269_zpse8b8cbf1.jpg)

(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s156/oldafretired/IMG_2268_zpsb9a86f31.jpg)
Title: Re: My new Canton oil filter...
Post by: abyars on April 18, 2014, 10:47:38 AM
That looks nice.
Title: Re: My new Canton oil filter...
Post by: cjshaker on April 18, 2014, 11:18:45 AM
Any issues with room  for it on a Mustang?

Ross, unfortunately I still don't have my engine yet ???  But since the Mustang filter fits nicely in between the strut rod and the engine, there shouldn't be any fitment issues.  Afrets pics look to confirm that. On trucks and cars with horizontal filter adapters I think it could be an issue.

Back in the '80s I started running Fram filters that fit Ferrari engines because they did not have the bypass valve, but if I recall correctly they did have an anti-drainback valve.

Jay, another reason I liked the idea of this filter is its high burst/balloon rating. I have ballooned a couple of regular filters, but don't think that will ever happen again. Then again the HP filters cured that problem also.
Title: Re: My new Canton oil filter...
Post by: cammerfe on April 18, 2014, 12:18:55 PM
I've run a Canton/Mecca in series with an Oberg for more than 30 years. The Oberg first catches all the larger stuff and is very easily cleaned. (I wash the screen with brake cleaner.) Used this way---the Oberg also has an over-pressure pop-off with a warning light---the Canton/Mecca lasts practically forever.

Whatever you spend on filters is cheap compared to losing an engine!

KS
Title: Re: My new Canton oil filter...
Post by: fe66comet on April 18, 2014, 04:07:09 PM
I have always ran dual remotes, bypass helps in Chicago's evviroment to prevent crushing the element. I have had issues with this before on a cold start. Filters are also rated at different bypass pressures. You have to look at a filters specifications for exact controlled pressures. I also have installed external bypasses on filter circuits for full flow systems that are adjustable. The bad part of a full flow filter is if it becomes plugged or restricted from heavy oil it forces your oil pump relief open, you will still register pressure but will have no flow. Just my thought on different scenarios.
Title: Re: My new Canton oil filter...
Post by: cjshaker on April 19, 2014, 01:23:40 AM
The bad part of a full flow filter is if it becomes plugged or restricted from heavy oil it forces your oil pump relief open, you will still register pressure but will have no flow. Just my thought on different scenarios.

Can't say I totally agree with that statement. Since the pressure port is on the filtered side of the adapter, it is reading pressure as it goes into the engine, at least on Fords. So if your gauge is reading 70lbs, then you have 70lbs at the cam or crank depending on if it's a center oiler or sideoiler. I have been kicking around the idea of a pressure port at the back of the cam though, to read the last stage of oil pressure. That will be your lowest pressure point. Maybe my next engine.
Title: Re: My new Canton oil filter...
Post by: fe66comet on April 19, 2014, 03:52:39 AM
I was stating in a remote situation about pressure readings but either way if the filter is restricted you will show pressure it is just not circulating. The filter is on the pressure side so it will register pressure, just crush or blow completely off the adaptor.
Title: Oh Lord won't you ........yada yada......
Post by: Qikbbstang on April 26, 2014, 11:30:58 AM
Moderator's Note:  I've edited the post below to make it less inflammatory.  It does contain some excellent information - Jay

Most of you know I am in the filter business,  I don't have a horse in this race, I very rarely sell auto filters and am not here. I absolutely despise it when filters are "pitched" with the"well that sure sounds right to me" BS to laymen.. They are a disgrace and insult to the filter industry.

Pressure does not open nor hold open said relief valves - Pressure Differential does!   Pressure Differential, Delta Pressure or ΔP as it's called comes from flow you can have 150psi in a slow flowing oil system and that pressure relief is not going anywhere.  Bypass Valves open to protect the engines oil pump drive system, prevent collapse/rupture of the filter media and also to insure oil flow when the filter's media can not flow enough oil. Sure if you are forcing thick oil or to much oil through the filter the relief opens - it does that by design.

     Oil and  debris in the pan are sucked up by the pump with only a strainer screen to protect the pumps internals Then it is pumped through the filter. 

                 As to " the cartridges are easily disassembled so you can check it easily for any metallics in the filter media." , you still have a pleat pack that needs to be opened/spread out to search for debris/metal particles and those cartridges are a real bitch to open cleanly.   In regard to "It's narrower but taller." I presume your referring to the cartridge inside but again I'd like to know how many square inches of media that cartridge opens up to, however off hand I'd say sq. inches of media close to what's in a typical spin-on - that small OD large ID hurts.

 The "classic" BS in filter sales: " It filters down to 8 micron" = which by the way is the exact same filtration performance of a chain link fence if you find an 8 micron particle somewhere on it. The "Down To", "As Small As" and etc are examples of the Hogwash phrases that I hate and are frequently "pitched" at laymen.

"8 micron  seems to be the consensus for minimum filtration for wear particles." ....by who?? ... please tell me. I've have industrial customers that read their particle counts in their lube oil and hydraulic systems routinely as part of their jobs, that 8 micron is new to me and I can tell you to them also.... 

On the issue with a vertical oil filter anti-drainback missing that essentially makes the filter, the captured debris on the filters media and the oil inside the hoses, passages etc. free to flow backwards and also aids in requiring oil to be pumped back to refill the drained out areas on start-up.   Why in hell did all the designers of those engines spec anti-drainback?....

             Seriously the cartridge pictured is what is referred to in industry as an AN or Mil Spec filter they come in a wide variety of lengths, medias ranging from cellulose/paper, woven wire to microglass, they are available  in many properly rated micron ratings that are determined by testing according to procedures developed by the societies that use them. I'm betting the media in the pictured filter element shown is cellulose....

   My advice install a modern spin-on racing filter and filter mounting head. If you want finer filtration then the racing filter offers - dig through the Mobil1 oil filters and find the one that fits the racing head - I will say since most auto supply houses sells all Mobil 1s at the same price you are getting a 4-star bargain on the large size spin-ons. Or install a pair of everyday FL-1 sized filters in parallel.

BTW take a look at how lube/hyd/fuel Ind filters are really specified

http://www.purolator-facet.com/Portals/19/Documents/8300.pdf

http://www.purolator-facet.com/Markets/Industrial-Hydraulics/Elements

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-ALUMINUM-BILLET-OIL-FILTER-MOUNT-NASCAR-NHRA-MODIFIED-LATE-MODEL-/261357857463?pt=Race_Car_Parts&hash=item3cda246ab7&vxp=mtr

Title: Re: My new Canton oil filter...
Post by: mmason on April 26, 2014, 12:24:47 PM
When this thread started I looked on you tube for more information on filters and came across this video. I think it will  add to what BB is saying or at least help with some oil filter definitions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiLhfAFhkvs
Title: Re: My new Canton oil filter...
Post by: machoneman on April 26, 2014, 12:34:22 PM
Gee, for a guy "without a horse in this race", that's gotta' be the longest, most hate-filled post I've ever seen here.....calling out poor CJShaker as a fool and worse. Whatever happened to having a civil discourse and a different opinion.....and respecting that opinion?

Jay, this is shameful IMHO. 

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Title: Re: My new Canton oil filter...
Post by: My427stang on April 26, 2014, 01:11:07 PM
BB, so here is a question for you.

If you look at that filter assembly as a case only, is there an element that would make it better than a spin on?

Understand it wont be as cost effective, but is there an element that would make it more effective for a street/strip vehicle?

Title: Re: My new Canton oil filter...
Post by: cammerfe on April 26, 2014, 03:09:47 PM
For what it's worth---

I've knocked around enough to know a number of guys with a 'forty-grit' personality who none-the-less have a wealth of worthwhile information; and they're willing to offer it.

I believe bb to be one of these people. Take what he offers in the way of information and ignore whatever of his manner that might offend you.

We'll all be better off!

KS
Title: Re: Oh Lord won't you ........yada yada......
Post by: cjshaker on April 26, 2014, 04:41:57 PM
BB, because I came to Jays sight to get away from the abusive insults and derogatory comments associated with "other" forums, I was not even going to dignify your post with an answer. But on further reflection it requires an answer, if for no other reason than to show that I am not an idiot that falls for any "sales pitch" as you imply.

Pressure does not open nor hold open said relief valves - Pressure Differential does!   Pressure Differential, Delta Pressure or ΔP as it's called comes from flow you can have 150psi in a slow flowing oil system and that pressure relief is not going anywhere.  Bypass Valves open to protect the engines oil pump drive system, prevent collapse/rupture of the filter media and also to insure oil flow when the filter's media can not flow enough oil. Sure if you are forcing thick oil or to much oil through the filter the relief opens - it does that by design.

First, my comment about the bypass in a "float" mode may have not been totally accurate...unless the filter is getting plugged and the pressure differential is great. I'll give you that....I was incorrect, although you certainly could have been more polite in stating your case. Confrontation gains nothing.

BUT, having said that, ANY time a bypass opens it is allowing unfiltered oil into the system. Being that the filter flows much more than the average filter, even performance filters, the chances of the filter actually NOT letting oil through are slim to none. My car is only driven on nice days and not in the winter and does not use 50w oil, so I do not have to concern myself with thick, cold oil.

I HAVE seen significant size trash in crank journals and throws due to bypass opening and allowing this "junk" into the system, which in turn tears up bearing surfaces and crank surfaces. Most likely due to standard filters being too resistant to flow. So if a filter can be designed to work under certain circumstances WITHOUT a bypass, then that is a good thing. What good is a micro-fine 1-2 micron filter if it allows unfiltered oil into a system? Certainly even you can understand that concept?

                As to " the cartridges are easily disassembled so you can check it easily for any metallics in the filter media." , you still have a pleat pack that needs to be opened/spread out to search for debris/metal particles and those cartridges are a real bitch to open cleanly.   In regard to "It's narrower but taller." I presume your referring to the cartridge inside but again I'd like to know how many square inches of media that cartridge opens up to, however off hand I'd say sq. inches of media close to what's in a typical spin-on - that small OD large ID hurts.

Being that the filter is easily disassembled to get to the filter material, and the ends of the cartridge can be pulled apart by hand (but they are held firmly together by the filter housing under use), inspecting the filter media is MUCH MUCH easier than cutting apart a standard filter and trying to separate the bonded support structure. Wouldn't you agree? So your point here is wrong. It's easier....period.

As for the filter media sq. inch comment, when comparing the cartridge to a typical FL-1A or equivalent filter, the CARTRIDGE ID and OD is the same diameter as the typical filters, but it is also about 3/4" longer. A fairly significant increase. My comment about "narrower but taller" was in reference to the housing, not the cartridge. So the narrower housing does NOT reduce the useable filtration area. What is the square inch of the media? I don't know, but since the oil and filter will be changed at regular intervals (yearly, with only a few hundred miles on it at most) and not the claimed 20,000 that Canton says it is capable of, do you think the filter will become clogged in that time frame? I doubt it.

The "classic" BS in filter sales: " It filters down to 8 micron" = which by the way is the exact same filtration performance of a chain link fence if you find an 8 micron particle somewhere on it. The "Down To", "As Small As" and etc are examples of the Hogwash phrases that I hate and are frequently "pitched" at laymen.

"8 micron  seems to be the consensus for minimum filtration for wear particles." ....by who?? ... please tell me. I've have industrial customers that read their particle counts in their lube oil and hydraulic systems routinely as part of their jobs, that 8 micron is new to me and I can tell you to them also....

First, they do not state "down to" or "as small as". That was my statement, and maybe worded less than ideal. They simply say it has an 8 micron filter rating. It does not say that it allows larger particles through and catches 8 micron particles "occasionally". Is that the case? I don't know. I DO know that Canton is a very respected business in the industry and would not be in that position if they sold inferior products that destroyed engines. So I will put some blind trust into them.

My "consensus on minimum filtration" comment came about due to reading many articles about the subject. Some by people who are professionals like you, but with MANY years experience in the automotive industry. Am I a professional? No, but I have tried to educate myself as best I can as to what is acceptable given certain desires and needs in a high performance engine. So please don't make me feel like I'm clueless about an oil system. I do have experience in building and driving 500+hp FE engines? And I have never blown an engine that I have built...knock on wood.

Would smaller particulate filtration be better? Well sure, but at the expense of flow (here comes that bypass issue again).
Is my engine going to be a 200,000 mile engine? See 50,000hrs of operation? At an expected 550+hp, no. I expect the need to do teardowns and inspections every so many years to check bearings etc. So do I need to see 2 micron filtration?

On the issue with a vertical oil filter anti-drainback missing that essentially makes the filter, the captured debris on the filters media and the oil inside the hoses, passages etc. free to flow backwards and also aids in requiring oil to be pumped back to refill the drained out areas on start-up.   Why in hell did all the designers of those engines spec anti-drainback?....

BB, where is the oil going to flow out of? An anti-drainback will NOT stop oil from flowing backwards from the filter to the pan. The pump, pickup tube and passage TO the filter will drain back...period. Now, AFTER the filter, where does the oil go? To the sideoiler passage first on my engine, then the camshaft, the rocker assembly etc. Will an anti-drainback preserve oil or pressure to be maintained in these passages? Of course not, it will flow/creep/migrate out of crevices, bearing surfaces and anywhere else oil escapes from to do its job. So please tell me, what lines need to be refilled that aren't going to "drain" regardless?

The sole purpose of an anti-drainback valve is to prevent the FILTER from losing its oil. The ONE passage that even has a remote chance of retaining oil with an anti-drainback valve is the 45* passage TO the cam and lifter passages on a centeroiler. And even that is highly unlikely given that the oil will flow out of the passages in the timing chain oiler area, as well as the cam bearings and every lifter passage. That only leaves the passage UP TO the timing chain oiler, which is what, about 6" of a roughly 3/8" passage? Anywhere beyond that and it encounters the previously mentioned escape routes. On any FE engine where the filter is vertical, how will that oil escape the filter? Unless you are claiming that oil defies the laws of gravity and physics and will flow UP and OUT of the filter, thereby emptying itself of all oil, your comment is far from actual reality. If you have ever pulled a vertical filter off during an oil change, you have obviously noticed the filter is still full of oil. Even with anti-drainback valves present, I have pulled MANY horizontal filters off only to see them empty. It is simple facts, the filter will stay full, but nearly every passage after the filter will drain its oil.

             Seriously the cartridge pictured is what is referred to in industry as an AN or Mil Spec filter they come in a wide variety of lengths, medias ranging from cellulose/paper, woven wire to microglass, they are available  in many properly rated micron ratings that are determined by testing according to procedures developed by the societies that use them. I'm betting the media in the pictured filter element shown is cellulose....

I would refer you to Ross' comment/question. So suggest a cartridge that will work better than the one it comes with. I would appreciate your professional input on this. If in fact there is a better cartridge than the one provided, then I would certainly prefer it.

   My advice install a modern spin-on racing filter and filter mounting head.

If this is not a modern spin-on racing filter, then I am not sure what would qualify as one?

Or install a pair of everyday FL-1 sized filters in parallel.

First, I don't want to drill holes and route extra lines to a remote dual filter set-up on my otherwise original R-code Mach 1. And besides, what about the anti-drainback valve, that you claimed is so important, being located at the HIGHEST point in the system? Wont that allow all the oil to drain back from BOTH sides of the filter, emptying all the routed hoses, regardless of the valve being present? You are now contradicting yourself on the importance of the anti-drainback valve....unless you mount the filters down near the frame. And there is not enough room to do that in the tight engine bay of an FE equipped Mustang.

Perhaps I have educated myself and have more experience than you give me credit for?

edit: And I would like to add that at no time did I say this is the perfect filter system. And I would not use it on a daily driver that gets used in cold weather...it just may starve your engine from oil for crucial seconds upon startup unless perhaps thin oil was used. I do believe it will work well for me and my situation. I'm going to try and devise an Accusump into my system somehow as well, but I try to keep the car looking as "all Ford" as I possibly can. And a big old billet canister under the hood doesn't exactly fit in well with that idea.
Title: Re: My new Canton oil filter...
Post by: jmlay on April 26, 2014, 11:38:48 PM
Can't we all just get along???
Title: Re: My new Canton oil filter...
Post by: cjshaker on April 27, 2014, 01:39:03 AM
Can't we all just get along???

Despite the aggressive nature of his post, I believe BB brought up some legitimate points in oil filters and oil systems in general. I hope I addressed them correctly and showed that they don't all apply to this filter, the FE in general and specifically my application. I do respect his opinion when it comes to filters, after all, his job IS filtration. I just don't think he thought all of his comments through about some of his statements as it relates to my application.

If somebody can point out that I am wrong, and where, I am certainly not going to ignore the info. I always have something to learn.

And I really would like to hear some of his professional feedback about a better cartridge to fit the housing, as he implied there was.
Title: Re: My new Canton oil filter...
Post by: ScotiaFE on April 27, 2014, 06:40:21 AM
This was an interesting post at the start and is just gets more interesting. :P

My thoughts.
As a Navy guy working with large Hydraulic systems they used all kinds of filters and part my the job was to change these filters.
Needless to say the BIG cartridge type was the real pain. Or I think now it was just the Navy that was the real pain in the ass. ::)
For high speed high, high pressure systems the only filter I ever seen was a cartridge type and mostly mesh screen types.

Now I've asked you this before Robert and you never answer.
What filters do you have on your FE hot rods?

I use a Cotton Gauze air filter (the best looking colour I can find, had a really kool purple one but the purple is just about gone now) and Mobil One oil filter.
The Canton is great, but it is messy to clean and change. I have changed a LOT of these cartridge filters in my life.   




Title: good morning BB your mission should you decide...........
Post by: Qikbbstang on April 28, 2014, 10:04:55 AM
All I did in my response was dispute the incorrect information, the fact that there was a whole lot of misinformation I disputed makes it an attack and my post gots edited to not harm feelings (PC?) because I disputed with facts a post on a cartridge & filter housing combo. Honestly I tried to be soft on my response and did not say you don't have a clue or are stupid etc. I just threw facts and provided links to allow interested parties to determine for themselves. I like to know, did anyone even take the time to go to and study the link I provided to Purolator with charts/graphs that show the complex relationships of flow/Delta P/micron rating/size/efficiency of filter-media/filter media varieties?......Anyone that follows Jays book TGFEIC should be able to study and understand said PDF..Ironically it does not even have the dirt holding capacity in all of its variations. The PDF is complex but it clearly demonstrates the requirements for proper filter determination/specification and the fallacy of anyone only providing a micron size and flow rate to the consumer.

http://www.purolator-facet.com/Portals/19/Documents/8300.pdf.

  IF anyone had seriously studied the PDF they would have noticed that the 8300 series cartridge* in a 6"x17" configuration on certified test hyd fluid (less viscous the motor oil) at 100F and 50gpm is already beyond the point that spin-ons are going into bypass and that large element absolutely dwarfs said Canton element.  That should make anyone question the 45 GPM flow stated by Canton.   It should sink in that throwing out only a micron size and a flow rate w/o all the parameters is meaningless.
         And then the poster goes right out all over again and posts:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
" Being that the filter flows much more than the average filter, even performance filters, the chances of the filter actually NOT letting oil through are slim to none. "
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Sorry to hurt feelings but here is an attack on something that is not truthful . I will to state, I seriously doubt said Canton housing and cartridge out significantly performs in either flow and micron rating a typical FL-1 sized spin-on filter. Here's why I believe that cartridge is economical cellulose, it's ID looks larger then a spin-ons and the housings it goes ins' OD compared to FoMoCo FE Adaptor Head makes it look smaller then a spin-ons shell diameter.  I doubt there is much pleat depth to work with and felter media area is not great.
       I'd like to compare this to a recent post on the sloppy engine build by Pop's - why didn't anyone blindly start stating "Pop's makes great engines don't pick on Pop's" ? 
   In other I took it for granted people should have come to the conclusion that any company selling filters by giving only a figure of 45 GPM and an 8 micron filter rating for a filters performance is questionable.  Like being in front of a Judge you lie about one thing then EVERTHING should questioned.


* Early in my filter career I had the opportunity to work for weeks with the Gent that was responsible for putting the Pall 8300 series hyd filter systems into power-plant/turbine and paper mill/paper machine lube oil markets world wide worth endless millions, the fact it was derived for hyd sys is it's Achilles heel. When you have an element with a 150PSID collapse pressure by the filters design your killing it's potential performance on a lube filter system that has a 90 pound operating pressure and starts making the bearings thirsty at 20-25 PSID - in other words it sucks at contaminant capacity.
Title: For ScotiaFE
Post by: Qikbbstang on April 28, 2014, 10:23:24 AM
Re:"My thoughts.
As a Navy guy working with large Hydraulic systems they used all kinds of filters and part my the job was to change these filters.
Needless to say the BIG cartridge type was the real pain. Or I think now it was just the Navy that was the real pain in the ass. ::)
For high speed high, high pressure systems the only filter I ever seen was a cartridge type and mostly mesh screen types."

I'd bet the mostly mesh screen filters you changed were likely hi-perf micro-glass media that requires wire cloth on both sides of the media to support it just looking at filter gives impression of wire. Wire mesh, wire cloth and the like are kind of costly and have poor filtration performance per dollar. The high performance micro-glass medias flow very well, filter very well due to the very fine fibers. I always compare cellulose fibers to pencils, synthetic to toothpicks and micro glass to needles. With pencils 80% of the area for flow to occur and dirt to be trapped is filled with pencils.  The lack of any indication of support media in the pictured element in todays Canton dispute leads me to feel it is simply cellulose media and of course it's far cheaper more profit for the seller.
Regarding what I run I have a "pet" really cool looking 1950s-1960s cast alum head that holds dual FL-1s and uses pretty short #8AN lines and goes to a block adaptor. I would not put a washable air filter (of any color) on a garbage truck. When I don't holes in the media when held up to light through a washable I may change my mind but those holes are a reason they flow well. Anyone EVER see holes through a paper filter?
 
Title: My427Stang
Post by: Qikbbstang on April 28, 2014, 11:01:07 AM
Re:
BB, so here is a question for you.

If you look at that filter assembly as a case only, is there an element that would make it better than a spin on?

Understand it wont be as cost effective, but is there an element that would make it more effective for a street/strip vehicle?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Walk into any into any industrial filter house and get the same cartridge configuration in synthetic or better yet micro-glass media. They blow the doors off cellulose media in flow and quality of filtration.  Of course you may end up a Granger or a bearing house so you will have to figure out the part numbers because they are armed and dangerous on filters.
Title: Re: My new Canton oil filter...
Post by: cjshaker on April 28, 2014, 06:21:56 PM
BB, I appreciate your reply and understand your concerns about the filter media. I have studied filter medias to some degree and do understand "efficiency" and nominal pore size as it relates to efficiency of trapping particles and allowing flow. I'm not saying I'm as educated as you on the subject, but have a couple comments...so correct me if I'm wrong.

Unfortunately it's not easy for general consumers to determine all the technical data on a filter. I will look into the cartridges as you suggested. Thanks for that idea. If I can find a better cartridge with better media, then I'm all for that.

I did say, however, that the cartridge is the same ID and OD as a regular filters filter area. That wasn't just a guess....I measured a disassembled Motorcraft filter. The length is longer so that increases the outside sq. inch area, although maybe not the total filter area of a deeply pleated filter. So they may (or may not) equal out to be the same in regards to that. Again, I don't have access to specific technical data....on either. So the narrower design only means that there is less area BETWEEN the OD of the cartridge and filter housing. I'm not sure what that would affect as long as the filter inlet holes can flow enough to keep the housing full. I will gladly send you a cartridge for data testing if you have access to all the high dollar equipment needed for such a test. Seriously, it would be very interesting to see the results. Maybe you can pull some strings and accomplish this? :)

I will keep a careful eye on my pressure gauge on start-ups. If it takes longer to come up to pressure than I normally see, then I will look into a Accusump as a pre-luber. Since the gauge port is on the filtered side of the media, that is the actual pressure going into the engine (the "low" side of the Delta P equation). That should be a pretty good indicator of how fast oil is getting to engine vitals on cold starts. But again, my engine does not see start-ups in very cold weather.

You do however, fail to explain what good small micron filtration is when a bypass opens and lets unfiltered oil through a system. Doesn't that one aspect pretty much negate all the arguments about how small a filters micron rating is? It's like putting up a solid steel door as a security feature, then having a cardboard door next to it. The no-bypass is one of the biggest selling points to me, so if I have to use a pre-luber, then that will be fine with me. And like I also said, with the oil getting changed yearly (and more when I race it), I seriously doubt that clogging will be an issue at just 200-300+ miles.

I did search, and have yet to find anybody who actually uses the filter, say anything bad about it or relate any negative impacts it has had.



Title: Re: My new Canton oil filter...
Post by: Qikbbstang on April 28, 2014, 08:31:00 PM
Sorry but lab time is expensive and the testing for filter ratings/approvals are done by third party certified test labs "by the book". They even obtain the filters to be tested from the open market - not get handed them by the Mfg. Supposedly this happens also in the HVAC market where testing may get a bit of slack.
       One thing your missing is with no bypass you have in effect a direct coupling - the pump will essentially pump near exactly what it displaces there is no safety valve in the filter (there is one in the pump of course) IF the Delta Pressure on media and pressure through the motor is high due to trying to force goose grease the pump drive system is dealing with it all by the loading of the gears and drive shaft since there is no bypass.
      Economically it is really hard to beat automotive Spin-ons not to mention it is neater, (GM guys were stuck screwing around with nasty cartridges for decades and finally got spin-ons ).
      If one doubles the spin-ons or cartridges on a lube system across the board the filter performance in every way improves and that is proven to do so exponentially - flow through any given inch of media is slower the result in flow and contaminant capacity, restriction, micron ratings etc etc all improve.
      For years I've always requested guys on FE forums that had cam/lifter failures to share some pics of their bearings w/o much luck. By the book the screen and pump will get trash/debris but zero should make it through the filter - the bearings and all else receiving pressurized filtered lube  "should" be AOK. However Ive seen the aftermath of cam failures and the cylinders, pistons and rings can look like they went through hell -- the old "drip" lubrication can really throw oil with debris around.