FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => Member Projects => Topic started by: ScotiaFE on October 23, 2011, 01:44:22 PM
-
I have followed the Genesis block for as long as they had been talking about making it.
Some of the stories where quite entertaining. LOL You could use all the yellow heads here.
I'm not sure how many read Barry R's Dinosaur Article in Hot Rod. July 2004.
He got the first one.
Well that story had my tongue hanging out.
I have to get me one of those BLOCKS!
Now I have mine. Thanks Barry.
Sure there are other ones, but they are after, aftermarket.
I'm not really sure what my Geny will look like in the years to come, but She sure looks good on the stand
as she sits now.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/PICT0092.jpg)
-
Well Howie, are you just going to tease us, or are you going to give us some more details? Cubic inches, cam, compression, pistons, rods, crank, etc. etc...
-
I going to stay with the stock 4.250" bore.
I'm saving up for 4.250" stroker kit with about 11.5 squeeze.
I have all my good stuff from the 428.
Canton T pan and screen, The good oil pump and drive, the msd digital 6 box and pro billit dizzy.
Edel water pump.
Oh ya my NOS plate. ;D
I could use my 428 cam, but I started to feel it was a little small in the 428.
I'm thinking pretty big close to .675 @ 250ish and a 125 shot.
With the Digital 6 and Pro Billit I have lots of control with timming and I have a really nice Dura Spark
Dizzy I have been tinkering with for many years for street driving.
It's not so much I need more FE.
I need more helper monkeys.
I need to paint my Mustang. It's starting to get a little rough looking.
I built a new shed this year and plan on doing the Stang in it during the next little while.
I know the Stang is not there, she's still in the old wood shed back at the old place.
I'm too embarrassed to take a pic of it. It's not pruddy.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/DSC01948.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/DSC01949.jpg)
-
The Fairlane looks good!
Think big on the cam, Howie. Big cubes need big cams...
-
I have been doing a lot of reading lately on the FE sideoiler system.
So was in town looking at my Geny, and you know what.
It is drilled as a sideoiler, but does not have the boss drilled for the relief valve. Interesting.
I have ordered a spring and valve from Doug, The pump builder.
I plan on machining this into my block.
I have come to believe that this is a very important part of the sideoiler.
When Ford re engineered the 427 as the sideoiler, it was to make sure the rear main and cam bearings where
getting a steady 65 to 70 psi at high speed.
The factory oil pump put out 100 to 110 psi and the rear valve would vent at 70 psi.
The common practice by some FE guys now is to shim the valve closed and use the
Melling HV pump "which vents at 65 psi" to control the oil pressure.
This is ok for a top oiler, but on the sideoiler I do not think this is a good plan.
The fact is if you have 65 to 70 psi at the filter mount gauge you will see less pressure at the rear main.
How much will depend on how much bearing clearance you have.
The SO has more and bigger oil passages and thus needs more and bigger pressure.
I have read that the SO relief valve was to prevent cold start over pressure to prevent oil filter blow out.
I don't agree. If you are using a stock Ford 427 pump and cold start you will peg 100 psi gauge.
When I cold start my 390 with a HV pump which vents at 65 psi hot at 2500 rpm I get 85 psi until it warms up a bit.
Granted I do not have running SO to test these issues. Yet. lol
I am also looking for some very up close pictures of the original SO boss relief valve port.
If any one is willing to provide some I would be very grateful.
Thanks.
edit: for bad grammar, it still bad just not as much. lol
-
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v660/Mario428/SOReleifvalvedetails.jpg)
This is what the relief port looks like, but does not seem to be an issue I have heard from anyone using a Genesis block.
Not to start an arguement but more and bigger passages do not need more pressure or volume. Oil pump requirements are still driven by bearing clearances throughout the engine.
Side oiler sends the oil to the crank first and does a better job of it though cannot complain about how the bearings have lasted in my top oiler once I got the clearances right.
-
Thanks Mario.
I have that drawing and have been staring at it for a bit. lol
Everything I have read on this says that a HP pump @ about 100 to 110 psi is what the factory used in the 427.
I was looking for a pic of the vent port inside the block.
-
Howie, heres a pic I lifted off the net. I've seen it in a few books and manuals too. Not the best but.....
I've also wondered why Genesis didn't do the relief valve. I thought it might have been cost related.
-
Yes. I agree with the cost related.
They would have to purchase a supply of spool valves and springs.
And the added machining and testing to make sure the valve works.
I have a valve spool and a small collection of springs to test.
I have seen that pic also. I will keep looking for a better picture so I can gauge the
two ports to the rear of the block .
The machining will be done the road a bit.
I have yet to get my Mill running.
Thanks
-
Tod Buttermore (sp?) might be a good person to contact down the road when you get into this further. Being the main designer of the Genesis and Pond blocks (besides his own 351C offering he's working on) he might have some inside details. I don't know if he's bound to any copyright issues but I'm sure he can answer some basic questions about the design. He might even know why it was left unmachined. I have emailed him a few times in the past and was very helpful. I know he posts on the Cleveland forum on net54. He used to post a little on FE.com too. I think it would be cool to add the relief valve if possible. Comparing the original block to the Gen will hopefully show a similar casting structure. I'm going to take a good look at mine hopefully sometime tomorrow and see how far the side oil galley is drilled via the front plug. I'm also curious if the oil passage is the same dia as the Ford blocks. And how they were drilled to hold the spring and valve. Smaller or bigger step I'd guess?
-
Picked up another intake. Ya that's what I need another FE intake. ::)
Looks to be in great condition. Fair price to boot.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/C6013.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/C6015.jpg)
-
Nice, Howie! Looks like an original MR tunnel wedge. If you don't mind my asking, what did you have to pay for it?
-
Very nice Howie! Looks really clean. Here's one of my junk.
-
No problem Jay.
I paid 1000 loonies.
I actually used your book to make sure it was a real Ford one and showed the guy
all the info in the book. Even the $1200 price mark you said.
We were both happy with the deal.
Kinda bit into my crank fund, but it was just too kool to pass on.
mod: wrong word usage :P
-
Very nice Howie! Looks really clean. Here's one of my junk.
Glenn yours is way kooler than my junk.
I only dream of TP junk.
-
Thanks Howie. No matter which way you go it can be a expensive hobby. ;D
That's a very good price on the tunnelwedge. It looks mint. Dennis at DSC sells the pan gasket. Mine came with the original gasket but it's slightly cracked in one spot so bought one from DSC s a backup. Also has the little slot head stainless screws and washers with the holes in them for safety wire. I think those came on it from Ford but not certain.
I was originally looking for highriser stuff. But Earl H (The Going Thing) had these TP heads and intake in excellent condition for sale. So I grabbed them. Shortly after that I saw a set of NOS highriser heads and intake on ebay. LOL oh well. Very happy none the less.
-
Here's the original gasket that came with mine. Stiff material maybe due to the age or just came that way. The repop gasket is a bit softer material but fits very well.
-
Thanks Howie. No matter which way you go it can be a expensive hobby. ;D
That's a very good price on the tunnelwedge. It looks mint. Dennis at DSC sells the pan gasket. Mine came with the original gasket but it's slightly cracked in one spot so bought one from DSC s a backup. Also has the little slot head stainless screws and washers with the holes in them for safety wire. I think those came on it from Ford but not certain.
I was originally looking for highriser stuff. But Earl H (The Going Thing) had these TP heads and intake in excellent condition for sale. So I grabbed them. Shortly after that I saw a set of NOS highriser heads and intake on ebay. LOL oh well. Very happy none the less.
It's interesting about the screws. My TW has a set of socket head cap screws and are drilled for safety wire.
Most of the pictures I've seen show the slotted head screws.
Someone could have changed them, but my intake sat in the same cardboard box for 30 years. lol
-
FWIW, I did a short series of articles for Mustang Illustrated Magazine back around 2000-2001 regarding the TP. I used Brother Lon's engine as the basis for the work, and part of what I did was to compare, side-by-side, both the single plane and dual plane dual quad intakes. I don't remember exactly what the Superflow said in regard to numbers, but we flowed each runner and found that the design, both single and dual plane is quite admirably balanced. And there isn't a great deal of extra flow from the single plane.
I'll try to find my own copies of those articles.
KS
-
Howie that's cool to know. Ford might have used both (or updated) and hex head screws I'd think would be better. Sitting in the box for 30 years that's a great find. Super clean.
Ken yes please I'd be very interested to see anything you might have. I have been a long time fan of Brother Lon's TP stang. And have read everything you've posted about it over the years. Very cool ride. I have seen only a few of the dual plane TP intakes. And have wondered how they compare to the single plane version. Thanks!
-
I'm getting some work done in my new shed.
Almost got the tools in place. Still need to get power. $$$$
The drywall is about half done.
Then I have to strip the white Fairlane. So I can move the Stang in.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/DSCN0076.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/DSCN0079.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/DSCN0077.jpg)
-
Lookin' good, Howie. Nothing like fleshing out a new shop...
-
Got the 390 out of the white Fairlane.
Should have the body stripped of all the stuff I want in the next few days or so and then it's off to the recyclers.
Then the Mustang can move down. It's been a long time since I've even considered moving the Stang to work
on it. I'm getting pretty stoked.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/DSCN0101.jpg)
-
Picked up some parts for the Tunnel Wedge.
The lid has a few chips, but looks great.
A couple of old 1850's.
And a bell crank.
Until you actually see the size of the hole unit in real time you don't really get a feeling of
Holly Crap that's BIG.
No way it would fit under the Fairlane's Hood without some hole cutting. :P
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/Howiecamera098.jpg)
-
So, are you gonna get a junkyard flat hood to cut and save the hood on the car?
-
Anywhere a Medium Riser intake will fit, the Tunnel wedge will fit. They are the same height. I have seen the Highriser fit under the hood of a R code fairlane with careful cutting and milling. Where there is a will there is a way---Joe-JDC.
-
I've seen a flat R code hood with the braces notched and a medriser. Very Kool.
The TW is for the Stang someday.
The green Fairlane has a good working 390 with an RPM and don't really have any plans to change
that set up. Maybe a stroker someday. ::)
The Stang has a tear drop glass hood with lots of clearance.
I took the intake into town and set it on the Geny.
OH YA! Very Kool. Way more impressive than the Victor.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/003-1.jpg)
-
So will that be it's new home or are ya still planning to use the Victor?? Lookin good Howie.
-
BTW would love to see a pic of the Stang too. Those are my favorite.
-
My 427 Fastback.
I'd don't like the yellow and have not liked it for a long time.
It's a factory paint code X car Presidential Blue with Black int.
Pretty kool combo.
I gave up driving it for years because I really didn't have the space to get it
ready for paint and it has just sat for years.
I have new fenders and doors and boxes of junk for it.
Oh and a new 427 for it. ::)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/DSCN0130.jpg)
-
Man that Stang is a beauty. And X code 390 2V very cool. Is it a C6 car or 3-4sp? Teardrop hoods look cool on those cars too. A most excellent choice for the 427!
-
Great looking car! I like the yellow, Howie, but it needs some really bold, black striping, down the hood and on the side. It doesn't look bad with just that black glass hood on it, though. I always kinda wanted a 65 Comet Cyclone painted yellow with black accents.
-
Another big step for the new shed.
Got the power hooked up. 230 single phase 200 amp service.
I have to step up to 600 3 phase for the lathe and mill. Not a problem though.
I plan on using a rotary phase converter to 230 3 phase then another step to 600 3 phase with a transformer.
I just need the converter as I have the transformer.
Need to power up the compressor and welders now. Ye Ha!
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/DSCN0138.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/DSCN0137.jpg)
-
I've never seen a meter with all zeros before...
-
Well I have the generator now.
Very Happy! ;D
I opted for the 10 HP. Should do just fine with the lathe and mill.
Even managing to get some work done on the Stang.
I love when the 68 and 08 are together. Very Kool comparison.
It should look really neat with the 68 a close blue.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/DSCN0380.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/DSCN0374.jpg)
-
Love the setup you've got there Howie. Not just the Geny but the whole place. Damn good job man!
-
I look at the shop setups some of the folks here have and am seriously green with envy. I do all my work in my driveway which is very narrow.. on a slight grade and is paved in uneven asphalt. You guys suck. :P Seriously though.. very nice!. ;)
-
Thanks Wade.
I've been following your TKO saga.
Glad you opted for the custom D shaft. You will be much happier.
To bad your not going live. It would be a hoot watching you go at it. That would be way better reality TV then the crap on TV.
Well Kirstie still has it going on. ::)
-
I look at the shop setups some of the folks here have and am seriously green with envy. I do all my work in my driveway which is very narrow.. on a slight grade and is paved in uneven asphalt. You guys suck. :P Seriously though.. very nice!. ;)
Thanks
Trust me, I've spent my time laying on gravel in the middle Febuary in the frozen north.
-
Many years ago I had a pretty good sized shop. About 2800 sq ft.
I had a few service contracts and made a few products for a couple of other shops.
Any ways I closed the shop. For lots of reasons.
I put some tools in storage and just kept telling myself I will get them running again.
Considered selling them a few times.
Well tens years got behind me.
Today they turned under power. Woo Hoo!!!
Takes a bit of work to generate 600 Volts 3 Phase in the shed. LOL
They only have a small space, but I never plan to do any REAL work with them.
Just hobby stuff.
The Lathe.
The Champion 1550. 7.5 HP
Pretty much booted and spurred.
Bison 10" steel chuck, Dickson Quick Change.
All Attachments and boxes of tools for it. Very Fast Machine.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/DSCN0509_zps2485e8a1.jpg) (http://s135.photobucket.com/user/ScotiaFE/media/DSCN0509_zps2485e8a1.jpg.html)
The Mill
Big First. Fully Booted and Spurred.
5 HP VS Head, 40 Spindle.
10 X 50 Table with power drive.
Have the Big Narex Boring Head
Big ass Vise off an old planer which I actually used at one time. lol
Very Capable Mill.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/DSCN0508_zps5243c9a4.jpg) (http://s135.photobucket.com/user/ScotiaFE/media/DSCN0508_zps5243c9a4.jpg.html)
Sure they could use some digi stuff but it does not make the machines any more accurate or even faster if your an old school hack like me. lol
Anyways I'm a happy camper today.
-
Lookin' good, Howie. What are you gonna whittle up first?
-
I have a set of Ed's I'm going to give the best tune up I can on them. lol
I have an idea for a pretty kool set of valve covers I've been wanting to do for some time.
Once you get started it just never ends.
It's like your big mill, your dreaming up all kinds of goodies.
Today I'm going to fix my wheelbarrel. It has a flat. ::)
-
Today I'm going to fix my wheelbarrel. It has a flat. ::)
LMAO Howie! ;D ;D
-
Look what I dug out of the junk pile.
I made the jig along time ago for a job I was doing.
With a bit of rework it should do very nice as a FE head jig.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/DSCN0517_zpse78dcb3f.jpg) (http://s135.photobucket.com/user/ScotiaFE/media/DSCN0517_zpse78dcb3f.jpg.html)
-
Howie, are you going to fixture that so that the head bolts to the torque plate and it will then rotate in those bores?
-
That's what my plan is.
I'm thinking I will bolt the trunnions to the torque plate and then bolt the head to the plate.
It should work ok. I have lots of clearance.
I'm sure it would probably be cheaper and easier to farm it out for one set of heads. lol
But there's no fun in that. ::)
-
I had a great summer this year, just not a lot of car stuff.
I spent a lot of time with my grand kids this summer, I have 4, going to the beach, got them out fishing, BBQ`s it was great.
My oldest grandson who is 5 started hockey this fall. FANTASTIC! I played Junior hockey in Ontario.
Anyhoo, Doing some cutting on the mill and built a new tool cabinet.
And a couple of projects I would like to see some progress on this winter.
The 427 and a 428 on the right.
Thinking I might slip the warmed up 428 into the Fairlane if, you know funding from some magic cow comes along. ;D
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/DSCN0561_zpsde77f8fd.jpg) (http://s135.photobucket.com/user/ScotiaFE/media/DSCN0561_zpsde77f8fd.jpg.html)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/ScotiaFE/DSCN0565_zpsc8be679f.jpg) (http://s135.photobucket.com/user/ScotiaFE/media/DSCN0565_zpsc8be679f.jpg.html)