FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: Grbmaverickmo on February 22, 2014, 09:24:44 PM
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Ok. Here is a question. If you had a stock fe in your car and you wanted it to perform better. What would be the first thing you would do to it???? Just a theoretical question.
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headers would be first.
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Like Any stock N/A engine, it will take more then 1 item to really wake it up! Bolting on a set of headers, or an intake, or a new cam isnt going to give you all that much especially with a car that weighs as much as the old FE cars did. So my suggestion would to be save your pennies and come up with a plan for a full rebuild if the HP game is what you want to get into.
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On the street, headers, good duals and a distributor recurve are the best bang for the buck on an otherwise sound engine
After that I'd go gears and a shift kit :)
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Hey Ross what do you think one gains with those three mods in lets say a 325 hp 390?
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I'd go with a performance gear set first; easiest way to increase torque production at the tire is more gear.
I think next on my list would be a distributor recurve, then headers and exhaust, carb (if the stock intake is a 4 barrel intake), then intake, then cam/lifters/springs. But I agree that the engine stuff is probably best done all at once. If you do these things one at a time you may end up recurving the distributor more than once, tuning the carb more than once, etc.
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Depends in the engine.
If it's a 300hp 390 then the stock Autolite 450 CFM carb is the weakest link. Get a true 600-650 CFM carb.
If it's a 390 GT with the Holley (600 CFM) then headers will make a noticeable difference.
As Jay said, 1) don't over look the distributor and 2) everything should work together to get the most back for the buck.
Doing it one piece at time will mean the sometimes you will actually lose performance because the parts don't work together - big cam, headers, a great intake and carb with stock heads will be a pig because the cam is too large for the heads at low RPM and at high RPM the heads restrict flow so much the the cam benefits are lost.
Bob
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Badbyrd,
Well if its a 390 rated at 325 horse or even a CJ at 335 horse, I stick with the recommendation, stock distributors have too much and too slow of advance which forces you to run initial low or too much total for healthy throttle work. Stock 390 exhaust on most is the worst of the bunch and although a CJ is a little better it isn't great.
If it's a dyno'd 325 horse 390, you probably already have had those things done :)
With that being said I flopped back and forth on gears and street tuning first, it really depends what current gears are. 3.25s vs 2-somethings are a big difference.
In my opinion though, I look at it in bigger steps, mostly budget driven and especially when the owner has a car that may not be worth big money
1 - Drivability/making the heart beat harder - Curve/headers/exhaust/gear/shift kit - Sound and torque really just makes it more fun
2 - Breathe a little - Intake/carb/mild cam - Same as above, but not really making big numbers without headwork and matching components
3 - Start making some numbers - Closely planned displacement, compression, cam, intake and heads for the purpose (full build)
To me it really depends on budget, a hard shifting properly geared 390 2 barrel with headers nice pipes and a recurve will be a BLAST to take out around town a chirp tires, etc, but at some point, like most have said, you need to think about where you are going and make sure you aren't spending money twice or three times.
Keep in mind, even a gear choice may be a compromise at first, if you match it to a 5000 rpm peak 390 then build a 6000 rpm peak 427, that's really why those things that are cheap or labor-only were on my list first
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I hear you Ross!
I tend to not let Budget things come into play when I do these projects, so generally that does not come to mind when I am building a car. It has been a long time since I thought that way and I really tend to forget that generally isnt the case for most people.
I have been down this bolt on road many times in the past and just could never get what I really wanted, so I never give this advise mainly due to my mental short comings mainly LOL!!! I am just one of those guys who just goes out and does it, and the $ portion never really comes into play!
Example and case in point I heard the responses from Jay about my list of intakes holding me back on a 500 HP combo so just this morning I grabbed a Victor, and very well might grab an RPM as well. I will sell the others, take a loss and never look back! Crazy to some, but it is what it is.
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If it's a 2 barrel, then even an intake and headers won't do a whole lot. It will still have a pathetic cam. If you're starting with a 4 barrel engine then a simple cam swap will get you a great increase....even with a mild 390 GT or 428 CJ type cam and stock exhaust. It will drop right in with no piston clearance worries. You can use stock rocker assemblies and it's not enough to overpower the stock bottom end and pistons, but enough to burn rubber :) Even a stock Autolite 4bbl will perform great with a mild cam. Sure, the stock exhaust will hold it back some, but the power increase will still be easily felt and a lot of fun. A stock 390 GT was a blast to drive back in the day, and they had weak exhaust and iron intakes.
A timing recurve is basically free or very little cost. Gears will trash your fuel mileage and limit your driving ability on highways and interstates. It would get you a good torque increase, but the cam swap would still be comparable in price with no drawbacks.....except for dropped mileage from not being able to keep your foot out of it ;)
I can't even begin to say, in my younger days, how many guys I've seen drop a 4bbl intake on a 2bbl engine expecting an increase in power, only to be disappointed.
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Bolt on stuff will work, but you do need to think of it as a package.
The simple Performer manifold, 600cfm carb, and cam in a 390 along with 3.50s can ET 14.8x in a 4400lb car with a stock COM and no convertor. This was with long tube 427 manifolds and dual exhaust, nothing fancy.
Car felt better on the street, tons of lowend, falls off up top but it's a great street combo.
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Sad when you think about it isnt it!
2012 Toyota Camry SE (V6) 0-60 mph 5.7 Quarter Mile 14.1
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No, because I'm not dumb enough to compare a 3400lb car to a 4200lb car...6spd auto to 3spd auto...and 50yrs of evolution.
Are you just trying to annoy people at this point?
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No Sir not at all!
This is why I dont do bolt-ons, seems like no matter how hard one tries it just never really does much. Always felt like if a guy had a plan and a goal and just went for it, he would be much happier!
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I'd put headers first. Then cam, then intake.
As i've found out years ago the exhaust is the biggest restrictor on a 390 and even with a 2V and 2.75 gears it'd be the bigger difference. If you didn't have headers you'd never get the potential out of other changes.
A dead stock mid 60's 390 with just a set of headers, an RV cam and a choice of Streetmaster, StreetDominator, PerfRPM, PortOSonic, PI, CJ, F427 or BlueThunder intake will pick up a ton without other changes.
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+1 on exhaust. Brother Lon's first new car was a '63 Gal 500 convert. 390/300 and 3-speed. We did a quick diz work-up to get more initial without too much overall. And within a few days, Lon got a pair of 406 manifolds and we put them on.
It made a GIANT difference, but the valve springs and lifters weren't up to it and valve float started occurring at about 4500. It went back to the dealer several times before they relented and replaced ALL the lifters and the springs as well.
But let me emphasize that the exhaust made a very significant difference.
KS
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This is a great thread going. Here`s my dilema I have a short amount of time and momentary tight budget before the FE race my 54 is together and runs so I don`t want to take it to far apart and not be able to race that weekend. I have been collecting pcs all winter but don`t have them all. I `m trying to decide what my last big spend is gona be gears or shorty headers and better exhaust. Right now it is a stock rebuilt 69 gt 390 and fresh c-6 with a 3.10 open and log manifolds off a mid sixties t-bird with 2inch duals and glasspacks out the back of the car. I do have a edelbrock 600 on it and a accel super coil, dist is recurved so it has more initial.
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My biggest gains (based on feel) came with headers, and reset the timing and curve. Advancing my timing was huge.
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Sounds like you have the stock rear gears in the '54. That is your weak link if true. You need to get at least 3.50 gear and positraction or you are going to be spinning your wheels---literally. Headers and dual exhaust, timing/tune-up tricks, intake/cam/carb in sequence. Joe-JDC
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This is why I dont do bolt-ons, seems like no matter how hard one tries it just never really does much. Always felt like if a guy had a plan and a goal and just went for it, he would be much happier!
You got your bolt on and weld on.
Most engine parts are bolt on. ::)
How fast to want to go?
That costs extra. lol
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This is why I dont do bolt-ons, seems like no matter how hard one tries it just never really does much. Always felt like if a guy had a plan and a goal and just went for it, he would be much happier!
You got your bolt on and weld on.
Most engine parts are bolt on. ::)
How fast to want to go?
That costs extra. lol
Good point! I was thinking more of the process but yeah I hear what your saying!
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My two cents are to go with "friendly" parts if you can. When I rebuild I'm sticking with my 3310 Holley at 750 cfm. The vacuum secondary is brought in by what's really going on will help regulate your power output by managing fuel input. You can change the diaphragm springs to bring your secondaries on faster if you like down the road. Sort of a self tuning carb, it'll adjust for the driveway mechanic that doesn't have the equipment to match his setup with a more dedicated unit like the double pumper. And, a larger cfm carb lets you go bigger later on.......... JMO
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Here is what I would do... Like some people have said... Headers, gears (maybe, last thing to do), shift kit (Stage 2), Intake (dont waste your time on the performer, get an RPM), A good carb 650-780VS cfm, hot ignition set up (MSD or Mallory 6AL box & coil), 2 1/2" exhaust, A set of Autolite 124's or NGK AP7FS to top it off with. That will get you moving! :o LOL JMHO
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Also some other things that are over looked.... Get a good cap and rotor! One that uses brass parts, like Accel cap and rotor (something along those lines).... A good set of plug wires too... Ford Motorsports comes to mind....