FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: chilly460 on February 11, 2014, 11:48:04 AM
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OK, piling on. Toying with idea of trying a few passes at the FE Reunion in April.
63 Marauder, pretty much full weight, fiberglass hood, figure 4350 with me in it
390 .030", Edelbrocks with cleanup figure 270/190 flow, 270H, 750dp on a Performer RPM, 9.5:1, FPA TriYs into typical 2.5" exhaust with H pipe. Combo is pretty common, seems like 400hp is attainable?.
T10 with 3.50 Open. Tires right now are 255/70/15 on rear, may go 275/60/15 which are a little shorter for more gear.
Car feels OK, pulls well in low gears. Lays over on topend and I'll be working very hard to get it figured out as soon as it warms a bit. Open rear is a concern but no funds to change that at the moment, if I do it I'm going 31spl and better carrier so big investment. With the T10 though, it is lazy in first and actually doesn't really spin unless you work hard.
15/36-37* in the distributor, in by 2800rpm. I have a wideband on it and have some goofy air/fuel readings so will sneak up on it, checking fuel pressure soon.
So, assuming I get it squared away, I have access to a chassis dyno and do whatever it takes to get it right, will this kind of combo sneak into the 12s? I'm assuming, again, it will hook somewhat on street tires.
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What Carb and fuel pump on it? Most drag races are won or lost in the first 60 ft. Sounds like you'll need to work on traction first then the laying down top end next. Looking at your engine combo looks very doable. Even a cheap mini spool would help.
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Right now it has a Holley 750dp, nothing fancy. I put an AED 750dp on it, no change on the topend, think it's in the fuel system. It has a Carter electric returnless, think it may be a little weak although this isn't a killer combo.
I'm looking for a pair of slapper bars to put on it, should be plenty for this mild combo.
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To get crispness at the low end, you should change your diz to have 10* instead of your 15* (If I understood your notation). With 10* built in, you should be able to use as much as 18* initial, depending on such things as gas, and you'll find a whole new off-idle feel to the car.
KS
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I have 15* initial, 37* total.
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I'm thinking 12s are going to be a challenge with such a heavy car. But keep motoring through the top end and MPH will give a good handle on your real-world HP number.
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What is the diameter of your fuel line from the tank to the pump , and pump to carb ? and any inline filter you may have ?.. Bud
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I'm with mlcraven. I think once the top end problem is fixed you'll be on your way. That being said, your gearing is way to tall. 4.10 to 4.56 is in order. And slicks. Jmho. People that have ridden in an actual 12 second car know it. That's a fast car. I think most factory big block fords and mopars ran high 13's and low 14's.
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What clutch do you have in it? I'm breaking in a centerforce dual friction right now. It seems to me that (and know that I have zero knowledge on this) with positrac and slicks you would fry the clutch pretty quick. Do these newer clutches etc hold up a lot better than the stock ones or can I expect it to only last a certain number of drag starts?
BTW, Is the trans a close or wide ratio?
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I was just wondering where the fe reunion will be held in April , I'm a big fe fan and if at all possible would love to go
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I have 15* initial, 37* total.
Do I therefore understand that you have an advance mechanism in the diz that produces 11* (22*)? What kind of diz is it?
KS
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My '64 Custom, weighing 4080 with me in it, ran 13.27 at 107 with a pair of well-used 8" slicks and an un-locked 4.11.
KS
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I think he means zero built in and he's running 15 initial, and 37 total - all in at 2800rpm.
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Thanks to all for the responses, I do appreciate it.
Just to give perspective, I've been in a 10.0x second car, and briefly driven an 11.4xsec car and 10.6xsec car on the street (buddies let me drive). I have a basically stock 2013 Mustang GT and a 2001 Lightning that made 412hp at the wheels and should run 12s as well, I ran 13.02 in my old '93 Lightning with Powerdyne. Not saying any of that to say I "know it all", just perspective that I understand what a 12sec car should feel like.
To be clear, I don't think the Marauder is a 12sec car now, and I understand 12s are a stretch for it.
I am running 3/8" fuel line, no return (originally wanted simplicity). My guess is that the fact that the pump can run returnless means it may be suspect as far as performance. Filter is just a cheapie plastic inline. I'll get a pressure gauge on it whenever weather breaks and see how it's doing on the topend. I feel like it pulls ok in 1st/2nd then lays over in 3rd or 4th, which leads me to think it's emptying the bowls, possibly, by the time I hit third. Car feels nice and torquey, responsive in midrange but goes flat after say 4500. Springs could be concern too, but doesn't account for it pulling well in lower gears.
I run a Centerforce Dual Friction clutch.
Trans is a close ratio, as I believe all galaxie T10s are, something like a 2.20 first gear. As said, it's lazy in first. I wanted to avoid slicks due to the T10, plus to be honest it's so lazy in first I don't think they're really needed with current 3.50 rear.
I fully intend to put a 4.11 center section together at some point, but I want to go 31spl at the same time and with other "to do" stuff as priority, can't swing the cash at the moment. Car wheel hops badly so some type of traction bar are first up. I have an aluminum driveshaft ready to go in, but won't put it in until I have the bars.
Distributor is an MSD Billet, have it setup right now with 15* initial timing, 37* total....meaning it advances 22*.
Jrpumper, the FE reunion is being held at Beaver Springs Raceway in PA, 4/26/2014.
I'll get some data and report back, like I said I can get it dyno'd. Curiosity is there because some guys have similar combos and have run low 13s or 12s, and some cars with strokers and gear run in the 13s. Trying to optimize what I have, but still with understanding it is a street car.
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I think with the parts you have and the weight of the vehicle your not going to see 12's... Maybe mid 13's... Just judging from my own experiences with a heavy vehicle and small engine... Way back when I had my brother Kyle's dove head 460 in my truck it weighed 4340 with me in it. 3.50 gears mini spool, stock C6 and converter 26 tall street tires... Leaving from just off idle the best it ran was 13.1xx around 104-105 mph.. Engine was probably around 450-500hp heads were ported with stock size valves 238-248 @0.050 solid flat tappet cam. Stealth intake holley 850dp and 1-3/4 headers.. Truck didn't spin off the line but the converter was tight enough to make it slow out of the hole... 60 foots were in the 2.0-2.1 range... Long story short... I'm guessing your car will be close to this... You should be able to Taylor your launch better with a clutch than I could with a slush box... Assuming you get your top end figured out... Good luck and have fun..
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Well i think the gears will help you , and you could do some research on your leaf springs if they are a 4 leaf pack go to a 5 leaf pack with the mid eye . Mid eye will drop the rear of the car approx 1 inch , will help with weight transfer and maybe look at the shelby under rider traction bars , they re retro looking and really work for both traction and wheel hop . And 3.89 or 4.11 would work well with your stuff , and remember the 68 1/2 cj mustangs ran in the 13 s , lighter car and different trans gear .. and you need to check fuel pressure for sure , and maybe even look at the sock on your fuel pick up/ float make sure it s 3/8 inch and not clogged at all ..Bud
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When I had a 390 in my 59 T-bird it got axle wrap bad, especially when I power shifted 2nd gear. I took the springs off and had a shop in Albuquerque re-tension them and add a leaf. Sits nice and level now. Haven't had a problem since. I'm not sure if that saved me any weight though, going with traction bars might have been lighter.
It gave me a little higher stance in the back too. From what you guys are saying that's not a good thing?
In April I plan to take it to the Albuq. dragway and see what it runs. Most likely be a big learning curve for me. I'll try to post a video of a test run in the next couple of weeks.
Dave J
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Chilly, I think you need gear and traction to get it a little faster
I believe that T10 is a 2.64 1st x 3.50 = 9.25:1 SLR
For what its worth, I run 2.87 x 4.11 = 11.79 SLR and I probably wouldnt go under 11-ish.
That's 27% more gear in 1st gear. if you had it, odds are the one legger would just smoke the tires, but with traction it'd get out of the hole and run through 2nd a lot quicker
Needless to say if it's taller than that, it's even worse.
I bet a set of 3.89s or 4.10s, with a posi and a set of Traction Masters would really make it jump even with the small cam
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Thanks again all for the info. I originally had 3.00s in it and the jump to 3.50 made a huge difference, imagine 4.10s would be another big gain. I do drive it quite a bit though, hesitant to run the steep gear, but may talk myself into it.
I did put an extra leaf in it out of a spare Galaxie leaf pack and clamped it in the front of the spring, still get a ton of wrap. I'll probably just put slapper bars on it for now.
Lots to think about, easy to go down the path of changing a bunch of crap on this car and still have a car that will get destroyed by stock late models and kill the driveability....
Ross, found reference that it's a 2.36 first, even worse.....
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I was just wondering where the fe reunion will be held in April , I'm a big fe fan and if at all possible would love to go
Beaver Springs Dragway - Beaver Springs, PA April 25 & 26. See here for more info http://www.fairlanet.com
We hope to see you there!
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Revisiting this old thread, tail between legs :(
Car ran 92mph, missed third, passenger in car, shifting at 5500rpm. Not very good data, too many variables.
I put a 4.10 open rear in it and slapper bars, it does NOT spin on the street, or at the track...with the open gear. Sad. I basically slipped it a little then nailed it, and it fell on it's face, 2.5 60ft. It pulls fine if you punch it at 2000rpm, first thought is my pump shot is way off. Feels a little flat up top, better than it was. I will say, feels MUCH better with the 4.10s as you'd expect it to.
So, it's a turd right now. Have three day weekend coming up. I can't trust my wideband right now, so unfortunately that's out. Going to try:
1) Blue cam on primary side
2) Blue cam on secondary if it likes it on primary
3) Run fuel pressure gauge to windshield
4) Put 2* more timing initial
Just seat of pants for now, called local dyno guy that I like and he was booked, will see him soon.
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Seems like first time out its always like that. I think you're probably right about the pump shot. A little carb tuning will make a world of difference.
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First time out with a new combo doesn't mean much to me, like you said too many variables. There's an easy half second to be had in the 60 ft with a tune and better technique. Also MPH seems a little low to me. 100 would be closer to where your at. Fuel pressure gauge is a good idea. Keep playing with the tune and something will turn up. First time I took my stang to the track I ran a 9.30 1/8 mile. Got beat by a Jr. Dragster. Haha. No traction at all. Damn near hit the cone at the end. It took a couple years, gears, cal-tracs, fuel system and some tuning to drop it over 2 seconds. My bud Josh has a pro street 69 montego with a very mild 351 c. First time out ran 9.80. With gears, 4500 stall and lots of tuning he runs 7.80 at 86. 1/4 mile is 12.09 at 109. Don't be disappointed till you get the issues ironed out, good luck!
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Thanks, I knew there would be teething problems so this is just part of the process. I agree with you, think the combo is capable of 100mph trap. I wish I had traction problems at this point :)
It's just a street car so to be honest, not so much concerned with ETs as just getting it to feel strong throughout the powerband right now. I will start working through systematically this weekend and report back, good info from you guys so far is appreciated.
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I can relate, same thing happened to me on my first trip to the track.
I will say that going from a close ratio to a wide ratio (with a David Kee kit) made a huge difference in my hole shot. Your SLR of 9.7 is probably hurting you as much as anything.
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I'd love to do same but it's a T10. I am mulling over putting a 5spd in it over the winter which would be a big improvement at launch, not to mention cruise.
For now, try to improve what I have and see how she does.
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Ah, that's right. I forgot that.
Wish I would have done it your way and gone with the 5 speed also - I would saved a lot of money over the way I'm going.
dave
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Alright, start of baseline today. Drove it around, car pulls clean at part throttle normal driving, any rpm...it'll pull 1500rpm in fourth without bucking. However, if you go WOT in 1st or 2nd, it doesn't pop or bog really, it's just "flat" feeling, doesn't wind up...but then it's like a light switch at 3000rpm, it changes tone, and takes off.
So, I'm waiting for it to cool a bit. Just to check, I'm going to get a static CR reading. Then thinking lighter advance spring as it comes in around 2800rpm, which jives with where it starts running better? I'm going to mess with squirter since it's easy, but it doesn't really bog or pop, so I don't necessarily see this as the issue.
Could be power valve? Seems that could be why it picks up at 3000rpm when velocity picks up and it starts pulling more through main circuit?
Will get some data and check back in.
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Cylinders 1-4 show 165psi or so with engine warm, cranking three revolutions, throttle open. If I keep cranking, 180psi or so. Doing research now, but with some research seems ok for a 9.5:1 nominal, 270H (106lca) setup?
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Imo if your going to drag race and or play with jetting/ squirters sizes ect buy a lc-1 / air fuel gauge kit .... there like $150 and will make your life WAY better.....
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I do have one as stated in first post, I've run it in the car and it's giving some results I don't trust. Took ton of jet out of it and it was still reading 10:1 so I need to get it verified before I can really use it to tune.
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Went to .028 primary squirter down from .031 and it seemed to help, still bogging, I need to put an .028 in the secondary side and see what happens.