FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: Agar426 on November 14, 2013, 10:33:37 PM
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Hello all! I am new to this forum, but not a new FE fanatic. What I am not, however, is a mechanic.
The car is a '67 Mustang Fastback S-Code, C6. The engine is the original block, with one rebuild on it. Don't know the specifics on the rebuild, but the PO said it has an "RV" cam. No matter....here is what I want:
1) I plan on swapping a 5-speed, Tremec TKO-600 is the plan....
2) I plan on running a rear end somewhere in the 3.70 range, but no lower than 4.10.....no higher than 3.50.
3) I want reliability, and driveability....turn the key and it starts....every time!!! NO routine!!
4) I want it to be fuel injected for both driveability and fuel economy. I realize that the EFI may cost top end performance and the increase in mileage will be minimal. But, I only get about 8 mpg right now, with that kind of economy, I may as well get some performance.
5) I am liking the idea of the 445 stroker kit
6) I am hoping that 1hp/ci should be a reasonable expectation (at sea level...I live at 7,400 ft, so I understand the difference), and still maintain some level of driveability. This is where I need your advice.
7) I am thinking Performer RPM intake, Edelbrock heads or the Survival heads, the afore mentioned 445 stroker kit. What about the cam? Should I look at a hyd roller? Are the performance benefits worth the expense? Would it improve driveability?
8 ) EFI? I am looking at the self learning TBI units, the cost of the Edelbrock MPFI kit is too high. Are there any "preferred" units out there? Atomic EFI? EZ-EFI? Etc???
9) SHould I look at a short block? If so, from where? I really like the stuff that Survival Motorsports is putting out there....do they offer short/long blocks?
Am I being unreasonable? Can an FE deliver the goods, yet be driveable? I am hoping with current techniques and technology, this is a viable option without breaking the bank. I do realize that big blocks are more expensive to build, and FE builds are no exception, if not at the higher end. I am basically looking for any advice that you can give.....
Thank you!
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I have some obvious bias here...but can provide some answers, and have a fair degree of experience on these too... 8)
The 445 package would be well suited to your needs. They pretty much always make 500+ lbs of torque, and normally deliver power between 475 HP and 525 HP at 650ish elevation depending on intake and heads. At your elevation you can expect less, but should still be within the intended range.
I have had some mixed luck on EFI conversions. The high end Big Stuff 3, and FAST xFI are expensive, challenging to wire, require a lot of user input, and have always worked as intended.
My experience with the self learning systems has been less enjoyable. I installed one MSD Atomic with worked nicely on the dyno - no report yet from the customer. It seemed to be a very nicely designed and structured kit. I installed a EZ-EFI with multi-port injectors in the manifold and a single 4 bbl throttle body in a stroked 428, which ran well and has been running well for a long time now. I did two installations with TWM/Inglese stack type intakes and the EZ-EFI controllers - both ran OK on the dyno, but both were undriveable in the cars and have been replaced by xFI systems so that we could manually target certain parts of the fuel mapping.
So far the MSD Atomic looks like the nicest self learning system - it also has a simple spark control function - linear curve only. FAST recently released a version 2 of the EZ-EFI that is said to address some of the shortcomings & limitations of version 1. There are others I have not had the chance to try yet - I wish they'd let me go into the mapping with a laptop to adjust the VE tables on the self learning systems - I think I could get them into a usable range pretty quickly and then let the system take over from there.
Either my heads or a set of modified Edelbrocks will reach your goals. Off the shelf Edelbrocks would meet the number at sea level but might fall short at altitude. I am out of castings right now, and it's looking like I will not have any until year end at best.
We machine and build short blocks, long blocks, and complete engines on site here at Survival. We deliver a nice part, but tend to run long on lead times. The vast majority of machining is done in house - bore/hone/deck/balance/dyno - on fairly new equipment. We do have several 390 block cores in stock. Pricing is done per quote, and is market competitive.
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I run a streetdriven 482 SEFI Mustang with a TKO-600 and 4.11s., it's a dream to drive, and a 445 would be very close in personality. I have done nothing to it other than oil changes in YEARS
Ran it carbed with 3.70s prior to the EFI, it was real nice too, but the EFI is significantly better. The key is to think about your gear ratios and driving, then pick cam, heads, and intake to match. With a 489 I chose the .64 5th and wouldnt even consider less, even when I ran 3.70s, but a little less torque you may want to consider the .82 tranny
As far as the TB conversions, they run good, not as adjustable as the port injected units, but still very good. I like to add a bung to the intake for a second water temp bung, but other than that they do fine. Avoid Powerjection IMHO, but any of the name brands should do you fine, spend the extra money on an in tank pump and return line.
Self-learning EFI is typically not that at all, they have a limit on how far they can adjust away from the initial setup, my hunch is, as you separate from the norm (mild cam/small block/etc) you need more range. Therefore if you go wild or unusual, you probably will not be as happy as you would be with a higher end kit.
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You will have no problem meeting your performance and drivability goals with a 390 stroker setup. I would definitely say yes on the hydraulic roller cam for your application. I am also a huge fan of EFI, but have no experience with the self learning kits. I have run FAST XFI, ems-pro, and Megasquirt MS3X systems and like the Megasquirt best. If you are computer literate and understand the basics of engine operation you would have no problem tuning that system; they are not that complicated once you understand how they work. If you decide to make that jump, I'd consider a Victor intake rather than the Performer RPM because it has bungs cast into the intake that can be drilled for the injectors. If you end up with one of the self learning kits then the Performer RPM is the way to go.
When you get done you will be amazed at the performance of your car...
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A 445 would make for a nice engine package for your Mustang. Coupled with a TKO, you could practically make it a modernized torque monster that's a pleasure to drive.
A 445 rotating assembly is the most cost effective way of getting usable horsepower and torque out of your 390. There are a couple of different strokes available, but they all are the same price...so there's no use in my mind in paying the same amount for a smaller engine. With ported Edelbrock heads, I think you could meet your horsepower goal, even at your elevation.
With your Mustang, you will probably have a few bouts with "room" as far as the engine and transmission go. The TKO will require some slight massaging of the trans tunnel, along with a custom cross member and a few other goodies. The Victor FE intake with MPFI would be nice, but you would have to take a close look at how much hood clearance you have. The Performer RPM with an EZ-EFI system or an MSD system would be a good compromise for you. A 3.70 rear gear with a 445 and a TKO 600 would make for a screamer of a Mustang.
As for short and long blocks, they are available, but if you are unsure of your mechanical abilities, it may be possibly worthwhile to buy a complete running engine, that's been dyno tested and ready to drop in. The engines that I offer are complete, down to the PCV valve, thermostat, pulleys, belts, etc. It takes a lot of the guesswork out of installing an engine.
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Wow! Thank you everyone for the fantastic responses!! I knew that FE fans were a tight group, but this is more like family.....outstanding!
The car this engine would be going in doesn't run bad, but the factory 390 leave a lot to be desired. It will rev to 5,000, but there's no point, as it stops doing anything interesting past 4,000. It's frustrating to drive on the highway because if I get on it, it will down shift and it's done. My only option is to lightly squeeze the throttle to get much past the speed limit....on a state highway, not even interstate speeds. In town it runs just fine, plenty of low end and a pretty steady idle. It's got a manual choke, and if left sitting for a few days, it takes a routine to start it up. If driven every day, it starts real nice.
Here's the deal - The car was to be left to my wife and me in my father in law's will. Instead, he gave it to us early, as he needed the garage space. Until I "make it my own," it will always feel like I'm babysitting his car for him. The car is in good shape, but not a show car. It's better than a 20 footer, in fact it's probably a solid 10 footer.....a good car for "local" car shows. Although it's become cliche', I am really wanting to put the Shelby parts on it, as the '67 GT500 is one of my favorite cars. With the Shelby "look" it had better be able to back it up. Even if I don't put the Shelby fiberglass on it, I still want it to be a strong runner. My wife and I have (I apologize for mentioning a different brand) a '12 SRT 392 Challenger, and it is amazing....the perfect blend of performance and driveability. I would like the Mustang to be able to hang with it, all things considered. I know that it won't hang top speed wise or handling wise. The handling can be improved but at great cost. I will not be auto crossing the car, but I do want it to be a better handling driver than it is. The SRT has a theoretical top speed of 182....I never plan on taking either car there, so I'm not trying to replicate that. What I want to replicate is the seat of pants feel, and more importantly, the flexibility of the powertrain. With the torque the 445 would be putting out, and the lighter weight of the Mustang....I am hoping that the Mustang should be able to hang with, if not out perform the SRT during regular driving. That being said, I do realize that the SRT has 40 years of technology on its side. I will gladly sacrifice HP for driveability.....but with 445 cubes, I think I should be able to get both. Your responses below have given me great encouragement! I wish I had the $$ to simply just buy a complete, dyno tuned engine. I don't....but I should have the money for a short block, or maybe even a long block. I have a trusted local mechanic who could handle the install, and if needed, finish the assembly of the engine. I could always look into the shops in Albuquerque (about 100 miles away) if my local guy is uncomfortable. I am wondering if adding the stroker kit and aftermarket goodies to my existing block would be a viable option as well?
Thank you for all of your help.....great forum!
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If the 390 is good shape and you are wallet thickness challenged like most of us.
Work the 390 short block.
The 67 S code 390 leaves a lot to be desired.
The C7 heads are low po at best. The S intake is even worse. The exhaust manifolds don't help.
With an "RV" cam your dangerously under powered. ::)
A set of Edlebrocks and RPM intake, a cam of 280* plus, headers and a fuel system of your choice will really wake it up.
A converter with a higher stall in the 2500 rpm range.
The dream big is great, but a built 445 Fuel Injected with a 5 speed will cost A LOT.
If your CC can take the punishment then disregard. :P
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If the 390 is good shape and you are wallet thickness challenged like most of us.
Work the 390 short block.
The 67 S code 390 leaves a lot to be desired.
The C7 heads are low po at best. The S intake is even worse. The exhaust manifolds don't help.
With an "RV" cam your dangerously under powered. ::)
A set of Edlebrocks and RPM intake, a cam of 280* plus, headers and a fuel system of your choice will really wake it up.
A converter with a higher stall in the 2500 rpm range.
The dream big is great, but a built 445 Fuel Injected with a 5 speed will cost A LOT.
If your CC can take the punishment then disregard. :P
ScotiaFE,
Good points, all of them! Here's my dilema: After the new year, I will be going "in house" at my job, meaning that I will convert from being a contractor. Once I make the transition, I will be able to sell back close to 400 hours of vacation/sick time. Uncle Sam will take about half, but I should end up with enough money to do one of the following three things:
1) New engine
2) TKO swap
3) Shelby Fiberglass kit
Tough call, but I figure since the car already looks pretty good, and there really is nothing wrong with a '67 fastback to begin with....the body kit is last on my list. I was hoping, that maybe I could do #2 and part of #1. Here's my thoughts.....can I do a little work to the 390 now (intake, electronic ignition, etc.) while swapping in the 5 speed? And then....when I can afford the 445, I will already have the intake, ignition, and whatever else I end up with? Or if my 390 doesn't need any machine work, could I just plop the stroker parts in, doing a basic rebuild and be able to keep costs down?
All in all, I am having a heck of a time working up all of the scenarios, and it's been a blast! I've only had the car in my posession for a couple of weeks, but it's been in the family for 15 years. I've been working these scenarios for a long time!
Thanks again for all the help!
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There is only one issue with doing an FE with C7AE-A or C8AE-H incrementally - headers. Headers, good exhaust, a distributor recurve and a good intake make a heck of a difference, night and day even. However, headers for a good set of aftermarket heads are CJ exhaust port location and bolt pattern, C7AE-A heads are GT exhaust port location which means they won't generally transfer to the next engine.
So, my normal recommendation is 1 - headers and duals, 2 - recurve dist, 3 - intake and carb. 4 - All the big stuff. If you follow that route you may have to buy a second set of headers for a big build later unless you have the C7AE-As ported which isn't always cost effective. Problem is, if you skip #1, you'll never really make any power because GT manifolds are really really bad.
Another option would be to 1 - Recurve the distributor and tune the motor the best you can, 2 - Do your TKO and gears first. The benefit would be a much deeper 1st gear combo for launch, then just shift where the motor wants you to shift, the top gear will still let you run fast.
Then you can start collecting engine parts. In my opinion, then you find a core engine and pluck away at it, whatever displacement you decide, you start the parts collection and build it, then swap it
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There is only one issue with doing an FE with C7AE-A or C8AE-H incrementally - headers. Headers, good exhaust, a distributor recurve and a good intake make a heck of a difference, night and day even. However, headers for a good set of aftermarket heads are CJ exhaust port location and bolt pattern, C7AE-A heads are GT exhaust port location which means they won't generally transfer to the next engine.
So, my normal recommendation is 1 - headers and duals, 2 - recurve dist, 3 - intake and carb. 4 - All the big stuff. If you follow that route you may have to buy a second set of headers for a big build later unless you have the C7AE-As ported which isn't always cost effective. Problem is, if you skip #1, you'll never really make any power because GT manifolds are really really bad.
Another option would be to 1 - Recurve the distributor and tune the motor the best you can, 2 - Do your TKO and gears first. The benefit would be a much deeper 1st gear combo for launch, then just shift where the motor wants you to shift, the top gear will still let you run fast.
Then you can start collecting engine parts. In my opinion, then you find a core engine and pluck away at it, whatever displacement you decide, you start the parts collection and build it, then swap it
Would swapping a set of Edelbrock heads on the existing engine be beneficial, or are they better suited to a higher end build? If viable on the stock engine, then the header issue would be solved, albeit with a significant cash outlay for the heads.
The distributor is the stock points distributor....would swapping to an MSD or the like be a good move on the current engine? If so, which one? MSD Billet? MSD ready to run? (what's the difference between those two anyway? I know the ready to run doesn't need the box, but otherwise, is the ready to run comparable to the billet with the box?).
I don't want a race car, but I want it to be strong. I want to line up to my cousins 383 Roadrunner and be able to know that he will have a hard time keeping up with me.....either on the strip, or on a road trip! :)
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Would swapping a set of Edelbrock heads on the existing engine be beneficial, or are they better suited to a higher end build? If viable on the stock engine, then the header issue would be solved, albeit with a significant cash outlay for the heads.
The distributor is the stock points distributor....would swapping to an MSD or the like be a good move on the current engine? If so, which one? MSD Billet? MSD ready to run? (what's the difference between those two anyway? I know the ready to run doesn't need the box, but otherwise, is the ready to run comparable to the billet with the box?).
I don't want a race car, but I want it to be strong. I want to line up to my cousins 383 Roadrunner and be able to know that he will have a hard time keeping up with me.....either on the strip, or on a road trip! :)
Good questions
1 - Swapping a set of Edelbrocks now, wouldn't be bad, but you'd also have to make sure you had the proper flat tappet springs. In addition, it would likely drop compression slightly. However, if you had the budget to do that, yes you could. Combining the heads, headers, good exhaust and an RPM intake and nice Holley would give you some gains. Not incredible, but it would make more power. If the 383 Road Runner is anything more than stock, I would not expect you to beat it without going inside the motor, but my hunch is it would be close depending on his build.
One very good thing about that plan is you don't have to worry about breaking the top exhaust manifold bolts.
2 - I recommend the MSD, the ready to run is good, but having a box is better because you can get a rev limiter and you get multi spark at low rpm. You can always go back and add a box though Even with those though, you need to recurve, because they deliver with slow curves. The curve doesnt really effect peak HP, but it makes a hell of a difference in part throttle response.
3 - Remember, a vehicle is a sum of its systems, this stuff isn't cheap. There is an old saying, fast, reliable and cheap, (if you don't spend the cash) pick any two.
Last thing, 383 Mopars aren't the fastest things, but they run well and respond well to aftermarket parts, so don't expect to dethrone him easily.
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Barry R at Survival is a known straight-shooter. If you talk to him, he'll be happy to talk parts and $$ and give you guidance. There are others but I have been able to trust his information for close to 15 years.
KS
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Would swapping a set of Edelbrock heads on the existing engine be beneficial, or are they better suited to a higher end build? If viable on the stock engine, then the header issue would be solved, albeit with a significant cash outlay for the heads.
The distributor is the stock points distributor....would swapping to an MSD or the like be a good move on the current engine? If so, which one? MSD Billet? MSD ready to run? (what's the difference between those two anyway? I know the ready to run doesn't need the box, but otherwise, is the ready to run comparable to the billet with the box?).
I don't want a race car, but I want it to be strong. I want to line up to my cousins 383 Roadrunner and be able to know that he will have a hard time keeping up with me.....either on the strip, or on a road trip! :)
Good questions
1 - Swapping a set of Edelbrocks now, wouldn't be bad, but you'd also have to make sure you had the proper flat tappet springs. In addition, it would likely drop compression slightly. However, if you had the budget to do that, yes you could. Combining the heads, headers, good exhaust and an RPM intake and nice Holley would give you some gains. Not incredible, but it would make more power. If the 383 Road Runner is anything more than stock, I would not expect you to beat it without going inside the motor, but my hunch is it would be close depending on his build.
One very good thing about that plan is you don't have to worry about breaking the top exhaust manifold bolts.
2 - I recommend the MSD, the ready to run is good, but having a box is better because you can get a rev limiter and you get multi spark at low rpm. You can always go back and add a box though Even with those though, you need to recurve, because they deliver with slow curves. The curve doesnt really effect peak HP, but it makes a hell of a difference in part throttle response.
3 - Remember, a vehicle is a sum of its systems, this stuff isn't cheap. There is an old saying, fast, reliable and cheap, (if you don't spend the cash) pick any two.
Last thing, 383 Mopars aren't the fastest things, but they run well and respond well to aftermarket parts, so don't expect to dethrone him easily.
Thanks again for the help! I noticed the MSD ready to run doesn't have a vacuum advance. Is this a disadvantage when compared to the MSD with a 6 or 7 box? I apologize for the newbie questions, but as I mentioned in the first post...I am not a mechanic! I wish I had the skills and knowledge you guys have!
My cousins Roadrunner.....yeah, it's a cool car. My uncle bought it when he got back from Vietam. The '71s were hitting the lots, so he got the '70 for something like $2,500 or so brand new. It's pretty well optioned....console, pistol grip, air grabber, etc. He had the 383 rebuilt some years ago, but it was a stock rebuild. It runs really well...a great "touring" engine. Doesn't do anything great, but does everything well. A really well rounded engine. I want to show them that the blue oval can hang! I'm guessing that when I can ultimately afford the 445 combo, combined with a several hundred pound weight advantage, I should be able to show him the tail lights! ;)
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Barry R at Survival is a known straight-shooter. If you talk to him, he'll be happy to talk parts and $$ and give you guidance. There are others but I have been able to trust his information for close to 15 years.
KS
That's definitely in my plans! I've only been on the forum a day, and have already gotten more than I could have hoped for. Everyone here is great!
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If you have the Edelbrocks, a Performer RPM, a 750/780 carb and a set of headers you should be able to give the Runner a good scare. I used to be able to hunt 383 cars with similar stuff back in the proverbial day. Just stay away from the 440 cars until you get the stroker and some cam in there - darn Mopes 440s are pretty strong on the street....experience talkin' here...
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If you have the Edelbrocks, a Performer RPM, a 750/780 carb and a set of headers you should be able to give the Runner a good scare. I used to be able to hunt 383 cars with similar stuff back in the proverbial day. Just stay away from the 440 cars until you get the stroker and some cam in there - darn Mopes 440s are pretty strong on the street....experience talkin' here...
You know.....I was born in 1970, but if I was driving back in '67-'68, I can understand the frustration the Ford contingent must have had with 383 Mopars and 396 Chevy's out there, and they get blessed with a passenger car version of the 390. Shouldn't have to add all kinds of aftermarket goodies just to be able to hang with a 383 or 396. Can't wait for that stroker! I've only had the car a couple of weeks, but I my head is swimming with ideas ( and with thoughts of needed repairs....steering, cowl....damn!). I'm even thinking of switching from a TKO to a T56 Magnum after reading up on the TKO some more.
As for the 440 Mopars....agreed! One night back in the '88 or so, my cousin and I were on the way back to his folks home (he was in high school and I was in college) in his 383 Roadrunner. We were exiting from I-40 to I-25 about 1:30 in the morning. There was nobody on the road except for us, and a '69 Charger R/T 440. We exited onto I-25 perfectly in line with the Charger. My cousin goosed it...just a quick stab. The Roadrunner lurched forward. The Charger responded and stabbed his...it lurched much quicker and harder. Then he punched it and left us like we were standing still. My cousin, who was the "leader" of his little clique, and generally pretty fond of himself.....suddenly felt like a 16 year old kid that just got taught a lesson, as he should have. I'm a huge Mopar fan as well....would love to have a '70 or '71 'Cuda.
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Remember that the 390 was NOT the top of the heap for Ford fans back then, it was just the common passenger car BB. The 427 had been around in various forms for quite some time and 428 CJ came out in 68. Since then, the 428 has shown up in a variety of cars, none of which would be scared of a 383 and most wouldn't worry about a 440 either. CJs still hold NHRA records. Bottom line, these guys are feeding you some great info and if you go with a 445 built like they are saying then your Mustang will kick the snot out of everything you've talked about including your Challenger. BTW, your Mustang can be built to run rings around your challenger on a road course as well, the after-market for those cars is staggering! I know you're gonna have a blast with this project.
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Remember that the 390 was NOT the top of the heap for Ford fans back then, it was just the common passenger car BB. The 427 had been around in various forms for quite some time and 428 CJ came out in 68. Since then, the 428 has shown up in a variety of cars, none of which would be scared of a 383 and most wouldn't worry about a 440 either. CJs still hold NHRA records. Bottom line, these guys are feeding you some great info and if you go with a 445 built like they are saying then your Mustang will kick the snot out of everything you've talked about including your Challenger. BTW, your Mustang can be built to run rings around your challenger on a road course as well, the after-market for those cars is staggering! I know you're gonna have a blast with this project.
I totally realize that Ford had plenty going on in the performance game! I'm just saying that it must have been a disappointment when they didn't bring their "A" game to the table. It's as if though they were checking the box "put a big block in the mustang," but didn't consider what the competition was bringing. I'm guessing there was also some corporate edict that wouldn't allow them to come to the table with something as potent as the Shelby's had to offer. Then again, maybe not, as the CJ came out later in the GT.
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Build your 445 , listen to all these guy s and match your parts well and you will be very happy . i currently have a 428 c j in my 69 mach with a tremec and 3.70 s and love it .. BUTT i am going to build 463 with my other 428 block and can hardly wait . good luck and keep us posted and welcome to the forum .. Bud
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Build your 445 , listen to all these guy s and match your parts well and you will be very happy . i currently have a 428 c j in my 69 mach with a tremec and 3.70 s and love it .. BUTT i am going to build 463 with my other 428 block and can hardly wait . good luck and keep us posted and welcome to the forum .. Bud
Agreed...this forum rocks! Great people, great responses, and a feeling that everyone genuinely is anticipating the final product. Gotta love it! Thanks for the welcome!
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My apologies....after reading back through this thread, I referenced the MSD distributors incorrectly, regarding the MSD ready to run dizzy not having the vacuum advance.
What I meant to say, was is the MSD pro billet with a 6a or 7 box at a disadvantage because it doesn't have a vacuum advance like the MSD ready to run has?
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Tremec TKO-600 replacing a C6-$... In my mind I'm adding on all the allied goody's that realistically must be done to a chassis, suspension, axle, exhaust, brakes etc when bumping the power in a 67 Mustang and thinking "this guy just got this car".??????? I can see $20,000, $30,000 and even higher if things get going good. Just beefing up a 390 Mustangs axle with disc's, 31 spline axles, locker, N-case, serious springs, shocks etc and $3000 is history in no time.
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What I meant to say, was is the MSD pro billet with a 6a or 7 box at a disadvantage because it doesn't have a vacuum advance like the MSD ready to run has?
The advantage of the vacuum advance is part throttle cruise. Highway speed cruising. It does net a bit more fuel economy. Now all my experience is with
carbs. With FI you will have the advantage of more fuel control.
The MSD Pro Billet works perfect with a Dig 6 box on the street. That's with a big Double Pumper and cam so it really was not a mileage maker. ::)
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Tremec TKO-600 replacing a C6-$... In my mind I'm adding on all the allied goody's that realistically must be done to a chassis, suspension, axle, exhaust, brakes etc when bumping the power in a 67 Mustang and thinking "this guy just got this car".??????? I can see $20,000, $30,000 and even higher if things get going good. Just beefing up a 390 Mustangs axle with disc's, 31 spline axles, locker, N-case, serious springs, shocks etc and $3000 is history in no time.
Same game we all play BB, got to eat the elephant one bite at a time...
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Agree the 66-69 GT390 did not set the world on fire.
Worked with three guys all 67's Fairlane's one C6 others wide ratio 2.78 first with 3.25 gear and 24" tires this was in 1967. The C6 car got the Ford 515" hyd cam, headers, Shelby intake 780 Holley, 4.11 gear ran much better. One 4 sp car got just a simple cam change. New car only 5,000 miles on it never pulled the heads or changed valve spring just installed a new Ford 427 cam C3AZ-AA 306/500" solid, lifters, push-rods and rockers from a 427 with oil restricters. Great idle and power brakes worked fine. It now could pull a few car lengths on our friends 68 440 Charger. Second 4 sp car got the works a new C4AE-B 324/.500" solid, lifters, push-rods and rockers from a 427 with oil restricters. 401HP Tri-power setup off my 62 which BTW was a single plane manifold not a dual plane like all the others I have seen, Hooker big tube headers 4.33 gear. Killer just needed tires. Lots of fun.
If I lived @ 7,000 ft I would bring my own air by adding a Procharger and aftercooler. Tune it adding EFI build a big exhaust and fuel system. then while getting the bugs out have Barry build an engine for so all you have to do is drop it in and re-tune the EFI.
Almost forgot buy yourself some Mallory points they make a std. set to fit the stock dist and will run to 5500 rpm+ and if you buy the same part number but add X the points will go 6500+ no problem. That is something you can do on the weekend.
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Hi all, this looks like an awesome forum for me. I currently belong to one called "www.Squarebirds.org". I have a 59 squarebird, but it's become more of an FE thing. I put a motor from a 67 LTD and toploader from a 69 Torino in her. This is my first hobby car and I'm having a blast.
I stumbled across this forum after reading Agar426, "Engine advice for a Mustang" and saw that you are obviously from the same area. I live in WR and work up at TA55. I just had a motor built for my 59 Ratbird (Thunderbird). I had Anderson's in Albuq put a 428 crank in my 390. They took the C4ae heads and put in stainless CJ exhaust valves, a Lunati CJ cam, and comp springs. I had a Edelbrock RPM Performer and 750 carb installed. I have headers from FPA. And lastly I put a centerforce dual friction clutch in it. It has a 4sp close ratio toploader and 3.89 rearend. The rearend is open so it's a one wheel spinner. Hopefully I can get a new pumpkin and put in a limited slip soon.
It was supposed to be a car for a retirement project one day, but I couldn't wait and have been having a blast with it. I'm breaking in the clutch and motor right now and still need to put another 300-400 miles on it. So if you see a faded beat up 59 T-bird with teeth painted on the side you'll know it's me.
Thought I would touch base, I'm not a mechanic either but I'm learning tons and figure I say hi to a kindred spirit.
regards, David M Jones.
If anyone wants to see a bunch of pix of my project here is a link to my online photo album.
https://picasaweb.google.com/101492851059660555641/StreetRatProject?authkey=Gv1sRgCJSKjNbR6eunsgE
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Welcome to the forum David, sounds like a great project. I've got a squarebird myself, a 1960 that my grandfather bought brand new. Kind of a family heirloom now, and I really don't want to modify it, but sometimes I get the itch to pop in a stroker motor ;D
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Thx Jay, Wow, I really like that 64 Galaxie. There's a local guy advertising one with a 289, 3 on the tree. If I had more time I think I'd buy it. I love a three pedal car, and finding a Z-bar and clutch pedal setup for my T-bird project was the toughest part!
I sent "agar426" an e-mail last night and it turns out I know him from work! Small world indeed. Especially considering I've corresponded with Squarebird guys from Sweden, the UK, and even New Zealand. I took pictures of a T-bird that was for sell in Santa Fe, NM for the guy in New Zealand, he was thinking about buying it. The FE people seem to be a great bunch of folks.
I just put a rebuilt motor in my Rat rod sort of project. It's a 390 with a 428 crank which basically makes it a 410 Mercury. It's bored .030 over so its actually a 416. A 428 is really a 426.5 so my motor is only 10.5 cubes smaller. The builder is an old Ford guy and knows FE's through and through. He refurbished my C4AE-g heads with stainless CJ exhaust valves, comp springs, shims. 410 pistons, the correct rods, and a Lunati CJ cam. I also bought an Edelbrock RPM Performer and Edelbrock manually choke 750 carb on Craigslist. I went with a Centerforce dual friction clutch. I already had a Petronix point set up. I wanted it to sound rowdy but the builder told me he wouldn't want to go with a super crazy cam because of out altitude - he said I would need the vacuum for my power disc brakes. (something that I never would have thought of) Albuquerque is a mile high, and up here above Santa Fe we are at 6800- 7400 feet. Anyway, I got it all back together and running so I'm breaking it in as weather permits.
Anyway, I'll be chiming in with questions here and there I'm sure. I haven't worked on cars like this since I was a high school kid some 35 years ago. Until I bought this old car I didn't even like to put gas in the dame things, yet alone work on one. Now I'm having a blast!
Are there dues or anything to this website. If nothing else I'd be glad to make a donation. Squarebird.org askes members for a $20 donation to post to it. That's nothing for the info and knowledge all you Ford guys have to offer!
regards, Dave J
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I just realized I repeated myself on the last post, sorry bout' that.
I also realized my avatar "gif" doesn't move. The guy on the bottom is trying to punch the other guy in the back of the head with his right hand and ends up hitting himself in the face. Reminds me of myself somehow.
Dave J
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Right now it just looks like two dudes in an embrace..................... :o
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Right now it just looks like two dudes in an embrace..................... :o
LOL Thats what I thought too, but hey, whatever floats yer boat :)
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Are there dues or anything to this website. If nothing else I'd be glad to make a donation. Squarebird.org askes members for a $20 donation to post to it. That's nothing for the info and knowledge all you Ford guys have to offer!
regards, Dave J
No dues, no donations, just enjoy the site. Although I'm tempted to charge you for using that avatar... ;D ;D ;D
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Welcome to the forum neighbor , and neat car for sure . Question for you would that be Doug Anderson at Automotive machine , if so he s a fe guy for sure years ! And an owner of an original T - BOLT .. I am in Albuquerque as well .. Bud
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Yep, Doug Anderson, glad he knows his stuff cuz I sure don't. I grew up in Albuquerque, been working up here in Los Alamos since 83. Thx for the welcome Bud.
Yeah, that avatar had to go.......
Hopefully my new avatar is a little better. It's a picture of my car on my redneck jack stands. (firewood rounds)
I guess "gif" files don't work on here.
Cheers, Dave J
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Wow, the world gets small sometimes. I was at Kirtland at times during 83 and 84, I loved that town. It seemed like the female to male ratio was like 2 to 1, the clubs were excellent!
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Kirtland base is no more. They closed it a while back if I remember correctly.
Albuquerque was more fun back then, I might have seen you in a bar or two back then. I like living away from the cities anymore. Can always go visit if I get the urge.