FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: 1967 XR7 GT on August 11, 2024, 10:10:46 AM
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I, went with a Set of Jays TP, with SE Exh Ports from his FE Power Cyl Heads
For Valves, I choose Manley's Severe Duty 8mm Hollow Stemmed 2.300" headed Int Valves @ 142g & Manley's Severe Duty 5/16" Stemmed 1.675" Headed Exh Valves @106g
For Valve Guides, I went with C.H.E. Precision Guides, I prefer a Quality Guide, these provide increased wear characteristics due to CHE's proprietary Bronze Blend, which help provide reduced wear, even with todays lifts & spring pressures. Most of this is from their onsite sales pitch.
Stem Seals: It's said the 5/16" seals will work on 8mm valves, but I went ahead and got 8mm seals, because those are what should be used.
I, was able to find a manifold, that I had Vapor Honed.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/i134/Type4Unleashed/DSCF0526.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/i134/Type4Unleashed/DSCF0527.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/i134/Type4Unleashed/DSCF0512.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/i134/Type4Unleashed/DSCF0499.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
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Very nice!!!
What is the reason that your going smaller on the exhaust valves?
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Just guessing but probably because he went so big on intake. But I could be wrong.
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Did you have to fill the floor of the intake ?
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Very nice!!!
What is the reason that your going smaller on the exhaust valves?
The valve spacing on Jay's TPs will allow for a 1.75" valve and will only work on 4.233" bore or larger, but the SE port was designed with the 1.675" valve, because the valve spacing is smaller on Jays FE Power heads so their able to fit smaller bores.
I, chose the 1.675" valve over the others for several reasons, 1st, with the SE Port it already will flow about 240 cfm @ .600" lift, and I believe Jay mention it should support about 900 HP.
I,chose the 5/16" stemmed 1.675" headed valve that weighs 106g, it's 18g lighter than the 3/8 stemmed, 1.75" headed valve @
124g, a 11/32" stem would be a little lighter, as would a 1.71" valve.
Another issue besides weight, a chose the smaller valve because a larger valve increases shrouding issues.
To answer Stangman's Post:
No, I didn't use the 1.675" valve because of the 2.300" Int, actually because of the 1.675" valve, I could of went to a 2.350" valve easily, maybe even 2.400", but then I would definitely would of had shrouding issues.
To answer e philpott's Post:
No, Jays New Aluminum Tunnel Ports, come cast with the Raised Floor on the Intakes.
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Looks great to me, what are the bolting on to?
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I had to abandon my .309 valves because they were no longer in stock with my valve supplier and would have to wait 4 mo to get them.
I was going to run them with 11/32, 1.75 ex valves, to match in/ex weight, so, I had to buy both at 11/32 and have them drop to Jay so, he can drop ship them to Blair, with the heads, for his 7 angle valve job.
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Did you have to fill the floor on the intake manifold too ?
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Did you have to fill the floor on the intake manifold too ?
I, wasn't paying attention before. Yes, I'll have the Int Manifold Ports filled in to match the heads. I, wonder how bad it could be though, the majority of the flow is at the top of the ports, since the air is being sucked thru the manifold. Where the Exh has more of an issue since it's being pushed instead of being drawn, mostly.
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Did Jay mention the push rod mods that you'll have to make on a factory intake, for a ~.700 lift cam?
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Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't. Just depends on the lifter, rocker, and pushrod diameter. I've ran a lot of factory TP intakes with more than .700" lift without having to change/modify the tubes. Also ran a factory 2x4 dual plane TP intake that needed the tubes modified with just .600" lift. Lots of variables.
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Pictures
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/i134/Type4Unleashed/(edited)_Daspit4_ex7EkSXwqqRwHRudqaZZRf.png?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
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Are you going to do anything to the casting flash around the outside of yours?
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Are you going to do anything to the casting flash around the outside of yours?
Your, talking about what looks like a parting line on the exh side that goes over and connects the exh ports.
I, haven't figured out what to do, if I were to grind it away, the flash would be gone, but where it was ground away would still leave a mark from the grinding, that just replaces the flash, that is still different enough from the rest of the head, which would still be kinda unsightly.
Could paint the heads to cover up the grinding, which would burn away over the exh ports, which would look like crap.
Grinding the rest of the head to match, forget that. I think maybe, wire wheel the rest of the head some what, so as to blend in the grinding so it doesn't stick out as bad, which shouldn't be to work intensive, I think would be the best option.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/i134/Type4Unleashed/Daspit_Heads_2_kTXcPeCi2pcwcGRBDT4sot.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
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In a shock tower car you won’t even see it. If the heads work well that’s the important part. I would probably leave it. JMO
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Exh flow numbers for the FE power Cyl heads, with the SE exh port and 1.675" valve.
Hopefully, the Tunnel Port heads with the SE exh ports (Pictured), will have the flow numbers as good as the FE power heads or at least close. I, am mentioning this because, From what Jay said, their not exactly the same, and so the flow numbers may not be either, and until we have the ports flowed, the numbers are a guess.
The chamber in my SE and RE heads is better for flow than the tunnel port chamber I designed. The reason is that the valves are moved towards the intake side of the head, making them closer to the center of the bore with my SE and RE heads. This allows for a more gradual turn to the deck on those heads than is possible with the tunnel port design, or any FE design for that matter with the stock valve location.
The bottom head is a TP with the stock exh, to compare with a TP with the SE exh.
(http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/FEP Head Flow Data.jpg)
TP With SE Exh Port
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/i134/Type4Unleashed/(edited)_Daspit3.png?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
(https://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Prototype Head Flow Numbers.JPG)
TP With Stand Exh Port
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/i134/Type4Unleashed/TP005_(1)_(3).jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
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funny,that last picture kind of looks like they were 3d printed.
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funny,that last picture kind of looks like they were 3d printed.
The casting cores are 3D printed, which helps Jay keep the costs down.
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I, was thinking new Intake gaskets for the raised port TP's along these lines, some trimming required.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/i134/Type4Unleashed/DSCF0544.JPG?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds)
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When we do “ported” factory TP heads, we always fill the floors and I just use a standard Mr Gasket TP intake gasket.
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When we do “ported” factory TP heads, we always fill the floors and I just use a standard Mr Gasket TP intake gasket.
I, thought I would step up and have some ran, since there are none available anywhere. I, bought a set about 6 months ago, Mr. Gasket 205G, a couple months back I was going to pick up a spare set, just to have on hand, but they were no where to be found, so I looked into having some ran, and thought why not fill the gasket in for the raised port.
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When we do “ported” factory TP heads, we always fill the floors and I just use a standard Mr Gasket TP intake gasket.
I, thought I would step up and have some ran, since there are none available anywhere. I, bought a set about 6 months ago, Mr. Gasket 205G, a couple months back I was going to pick up a spare set, just to have on hand, but they were no where to be found, so I looked into having some ran, and thought why not fill the gasket in for the raised port.
Good idea.
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Richard, are you selling them?
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Just a FYI for the group, Cometic makes Tunnel Port intake gaskets, and makes them in different thicknesses. They don’t show them in their catalog, but they have the pattern. There may be a slight wait to get them since they’re not a “shelf” item. I have bought them from Cometic because I needed a thicker gasket than the Mr Gasket ones.
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Richard, are you selling them?
I, am trying to work out some issues, to keep costs reasonable, if so, I'll have them for sale.
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Heads so far.
2.300" Int's
1.675" Exh's
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/i134/Type4Unleashed/chamber.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
As is, the SE Exh ports flow 240 cfm @ .600" lift.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/i134/Type4Unleashed/heads2fliped.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
As is, the stock Int Ports flow 339 cfm @ .600" lift
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/i134/Type4Unleashed/heads1fliped.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
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Richard, are you going to flow them with the 2.3 valves?
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Richard, are you going to flow them with the 2.3 valves?
I, should have flow numbers after I get them ported.
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I got my Heads and Manifold back today.
Here are the flow Numbers for the Head's Intk's. Actually, their still a work in progress. Currently the Chamber Bore's are @ 4.250" and are shrouding both the Int's & Exh, so the Chambers will be open up to a 4.310" Bore. I, didn't really want to go that large a bore, but because of the Int size, I have no choice. But then, unshrouding the valves will pick up the flow slightly.
The 1.675" exh valve is too small, I'll be going to a 1.800" valve and opening up the seat to match where the issue lies, it was also recommended to go to Tulip valves to assist flow, but I don't like their extra weight.
These specs from bowl cleanup & valve job
(https://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/Prototype Head Flow Numbers.JPG) (http://fepower.net/Photos/Posts/FEP Head Flow Data.jpg)
My TP Heads Int Flow Numbers
.400 258.16
.500 308.48
.600 356.53
.700 390.40
.800 411.79
.900 425.16
First prototype tunnel port head Ported by Joe Craine
Lift Intake Exhaust (no pipe)
.100" 78 58
.200" 155 114
.300" 227 141
.400" 285 192
.500" 330 212
.600" 357 219
.700" 379 222
.800" 390 230 (260 with pipe)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/00d86f4e-1be6-4e20-9152-e5f798d927b9/77bd5d7f-5361-4530-8425-62ebd1b1f0cf.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/00d86f4e-1be6-4e20-9152-e5f798d927b9/d90e3267-ba2d-4fdd-8c6f-621974af823a.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/00d86f4e-1be6-4e20-9152-e5f798d927b9/f7de2051-72f3-40e3-aed5-7226ddeef0ec.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds)
Here's a picture of the Epoxied & Ported Int, which had an Averaged flow of 460CFM
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/00d86f4e-1be6-4e20-9152-e5f798d927b9/c74287ed-4e57-4628-a563-994112a832a1.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/00d86f4e-1be6-4e20-9152-e5f798d927b9/8d5e5742-faf9-43f5-90d2-20d299bfda58.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/00d86f4e-1be6-4e20-9152-e5f798d927b9/9d254ada-2f40-4a95-9add-6502fd4ddf0b.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds)
The Exh:
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/00d86f4e-1be6-4e20-9152-e5f798d927b9/664f15d1-3565-474f-87a3-055d4acdcc65.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds)
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serious high lift numbers !! Can you change the seat angles to get some of the lower lift flow back or are you using a high lift cam and concentrating on high end power ?
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Hi
It has 5 angle seat, so I doubt it can be changed. I, think the valve size & port combo may have something to do with the lower lift flow. The other TP flow numbers were with the smaller int, so they had better numbers.
The 2.3" valve didn't do to bad, I am actually happy with it. Some Cubic Inches will probably help.
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The gaskets I ordered showed.
The initial sample I received, I didn't like the material: NV-565, I didn't like it's feel, it was a crappy lower grade material, I ended up going with a higher grade material, CMP-4000, which should allow re-use several times easily.
NV-565:
The Upgraded CMP-4000:
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/00d86f4e-1be6-4e20-9152-e5f798d927b9/7e9edc08-8b62-467b-a0ad-588199e025db.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/00d86f4e-1be6-4e20-9152-e5f798d927b9/dae8648e-0403-471c-a85c-b1f7f414987e.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds)
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Tunnel Port Chamber
2.300" INT
1.675" EXH
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I, got my heads back after reworking the exh. Originally I went with th SE exh port on the Tunnel Ports with the 1.675" valve, same as the FE Power Cylinder heads with the SE exh port with te 1.675" valve which were flowing around 260 cfm @ .800" lift with no porting.
The problem, the SE exh ports with the 1.675" valve on the TP heads didn't flow the same numbers as the FE Power Cylinder Heads with the SE exh port and the 1.675" valve. The chambers on the TP heads were stock, and so were not designed like the FE Power Cylinder Heads, which had modified chamber locations, relocated valve locations with shorter & longer port lengths.
I, was concerned with the exh, so I had them ported, so the SE port with the 1.675" valve and ported, didn't flow worth a crap.
I, had shrouding issues, I wanted a 4.250" bore chamber hence the shrouding issue. Ended up opening the Chamber to a 4.300" Bore to help relieve the shrouding issue a little.
Next, it was recommended to increase valve size to 1.750", to open the throat of the valve seat for better flow. It was also recommended to run a Tulip valve instead of the nail head design I was using. I believe the Tulip was a 25 degree angle, and the weight from the 1.675" valve to the 1.735" Tulip went from 106g to 118g. As you can see the 1.750" valve is now 1.735" and that was due to flow testing, which determined that the Valve Margins need to be increased to help flow, I measured the magin and it's at about .090", I don't know what it was before the valve was cut down from 1.750" to 1.735".
Flow 1 is with the port work and the 1.750" valves installed.
Flow 2 is with the valve margin increse 4.300" chamber bore
and chamber work around the exh valve, which picked up
mid range
TP Exh Flow Numbers
Lift.......Flow1.....Flow2
0.100......55..........58
0.200....107........119
0.300....157........181
0.400....189........208
0.500....210........229
0.600....230........240
0.700....242........244
0.800....247........247
The chamber bore increase to 4.300" may have help to relieve
the Int shrouding slightly and help with flow
My TP Heads Int Flow Numbers
.400 258.16
.500 308.48
.600 356.53
.700 390.40
.800 411.79
.900 425.16