FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => Non-FE Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Joe-JDC on July 22, 2024, 02:54:32 PM
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I don't know how most of you are seeing your insurance rates change at renewal time, but I am simply appalled at my recent renewal rate for my 3 daily drivers, and my home insurance. It has risen from $2415.10 for my home and cars/truck in 2020 to $8428.10 due the first of August. The same vehicles, same insurance, and I have price compared and still have the best rates of all the major insurers. I have no accidents, tickets, or claims on the record for either me or my wife. Being on SS and retirement income, this is a major hit for a senior citizen. This is over $700.00 a month just for insurance and a 340% increase in 4 years. The insurance industry if out of control. My Hagerty insurance on two classic cars for replacement value has not changed but a few dollars in 5 years. How are you folks seeing your insurance renewal prices? Just wondering why this is so blatantly unreasonable to me. Sorry Jay if this is off limits, just delete it. Joe-JDC
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Joe, I also am from Texas (east TX) and have seen this similary in my area. I recently had changed from Germania due to increased rates. I went with State Farm and was dropped one week later after making a claim because a deer flew through the passenger side windshield and ended up in the back seat of Wife's 2018 Expedition. Wasn't her fault because the deer was hit and deflected from being hit by a different driver. Additionally, SF uses a third party to do home inspections, they came by unannounced and nobody was at home so they couldn't do the inspection in a timely manner and made the note of their trip that "there were ferocious dogs " in the yard....funny, this was their reason for dropping homowners (bundled policy). I did get a decent rate quote and am currently with Farmers.
I have never been dedicated to any insurance company and have changed several over the years, I'm 63. When I had moved local agents/companies over the years I have never had any of them to contact me afterward and ask " whats up or how can we help".
I am almost to the point of dropping homerowners completely. FYI, on homeowners raise the deductable as high that will allow especially if you own your home.
KARL
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Joe, I've seen the same thing with my home insurance, up to about $7500 a year for the house and the shop. Used to be $2800 5 years ago. According to my agent the insurance companies are losing their butts right now from all the weather issues, and claims arising from that. He claims that the insurance companies working in Minnesota where I am have lost money for 3 years running, and are looking for reasons to drop home customers with any issues. Before I could get them to insure me this year I had to spend $2200 on fireproof cabinets for storing race gas and paint, and also get six 10 pound fire extinguishers installed at various places in my shop, that have to be re-tagged each year just like a commercial property.
I have Auto Owners for my home and shop insurance, but still have State Farm for auto. I've been with State Farm since 1974, and never had an accident, so I think that's why the rates have stayed low. My agent for the home insurance, who is an old friend, tells me that Auto Owners is top notch in terms of paying claims, and that State Farm sucks for that, but I don't know if that's really true since I've never had to make a claim with them.
Anyway, insurance rates are definitely through the roof, and this year I seriously considered just bailing on the homeowners insurance. I've only had one claim in 27 years at this address, and it was only for $16K. The wife wouldn't have it though, so we are wasting money on insurance again this year...
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Speaking of Homeowners insurance, my home tax base has risen over 40% in the same time period, and if I were not a SCDAV, I would not be able to live in the home I have paid the loan off over 23 years ago. I see that the renewal is 1% of their appraised value, which is about 50K more than the County tax base appraisal. My point is that there does not seem to be any regulation on how much the insurance industry can raise the rates because everyone must have insurance to register and renew their license plates. TX requires an annual safety inspection on all vehicles, and that has been waived starting 1Jan25, but they are still going to increase the license fee the same amount for some project we do not have a say in. I had State Farm insurance for nearly 40 years, but when the local agent retired, the rates went through the roof, and have continued to climb. I found Safeco/Liberty through my credit union to be the best at this time. Allstate, Farmers, USAA, SF, Geico, and Progressive were all much higher than Safeco for the exact same coverages. Joe-JDC
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Same issues here in Ohio. My homeowners went up over 10% this year alone, which is way less than most people have seen. When I complained, I got the same standard issue response of "more storms and claims" as the reasoning. Bull. The same is happening all over the country from what I see on various forums I frequent, so that answer is crap.
The simple fact is that everything, everywhere, has gotten more expensive. When it costs 3-4 times as much as a couple years ago to purchase simple stuff like plywood, lumber, parts, food, basically everything, then the costs of replacing, repairing, rebuilding etc is going to follow suit.
It all started with the Covid lockdowns, which any reasonable person should have seen as a catastrophic response. I know you don't want this to get political, but it is. Stupid is as stupid does.
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Had a couple of long conversation with my independent insurance rep a couple of months ag. Our home owners went up $2000 this year, with Safeco. He tried to find a better rate with other providers and well as rewriting my policy with safeco. The best option was to continue with the renewal. Apparently the state legislature has changed the minimum deductible to 2%. Rewriting my policy or moving to another provider would change my deductible to 2%. The good news is the minimum deductible is moving to 5%!!! I purchased my house for $300k in 2015. The housing market has gone crazy here in the DFW area. The tax man says my house is valued at over $600k. I just do t see it… At 5% my deductible will be north of $30k! In short we will be paying higher rates for overpriced homes, high deductibles with no insurance benefit unless the house burns to the ground…
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100 percent Doug. Every thing is linked. when stuff goes up by 40 percent look for the remainder to follow suit. Like things like they are continue down this path , don't consider making a change !
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I have never filed a homeowners claim.
My Homeowners cost was going up two hundred dollars every 6 months.
I decided that it wasn't worth it and cancelled the homeowners insurance on both homes I own and my shop.
If everything burns down I will buy a nice tent from Walmart.
Greg
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Joe, our insurance has gone up just like yours, I’m well over $8,000 and our insurance company is requesting another 34% increase from the state insurance commissioner. I am also retired and on fixed income and my wife and I are debating canceling all but liability coverage or moving to another state.
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Let me tell you guys a story....
My daughter got in a wreck, 70K 2016 absolutely immaculate Jeep Wrangler Unlimited. Deployed two airbags, but Jeep didn't look wrecked, bent bumper, plastic fender flare torn. I arrived, cut the airbag out, and drove to bodyshop, not a squeak, rattle or issue driving. All the cost was airbag stuff
Now, when dad and I had the garage and bodyshop, adjusters would nickel and dime you for used parts, repairing parts, you name it, drop the price to fix. It was a pain, but understood, keep costs down, not an option today. Quote was determined by a third party who never saw the car in person. Body shop only took pictures for them from 4 corners
What happened here is they then added up LIST prices, for example, passenger side airbag was 2400.00 alone. Then totalled the vehicle at an over 20K repair bill.
As a legal and registered Nebraska auto repair business, I offered a discount quote, took the actual approved estimate and wrote up the same part numbers at retail prices, what any of us would pay at mopar.com, with sources, no shortcuts, same labor, same part numbers, same procedures. (that 2400-dollar airbag was 1600 retail, and my cost was 1100). Even at retail, I ended up at 14K, which wouldn't have totaled the car.
Their heads exploded, so I gave them my reasons I wanted to save the car and showed the extensive service records, recent pictures, upgrades, etc, and even offered a military discount to drop it further, not to mention full (and expected) option to reinspect and save all parts and receipts. (Remember, running driving car after the accident)
The bureaucracy would not allow it, so, with all my inputs on the car's quality and maintenance, they instead RAISED my payout by almost 4000 and paid me well for the now totaled Jeep.
As a recap
- LIST prices higher than retail lost the original local body shop the job
- Would not allow retail prices on the same quote from another business losing me as a repair shop
- Would not allow discounts, which just seems crazy
- PAID out ridiculously to the point I would have been silly to try to pursue.
She got a new Grand Cherokee, I ended up buying the Jeep back, cheap, and now I will be in it cheap as a spare parts runner and I can fix with used and aftermarket parts, but with a salvage title because of unrealistic and non-negotiable costs. As hail damage and other things happen, the scale of this is enormous, never mind homeowner insurance. Raising prices for everyone's insurance, be very careful if you have anything but a very high dollar car and you drive it in for damage. You may lose it, but you probably will get paid well
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it would be interesting to see a real audit of insurance companys-must have some numbers out in the world-- no way things are not changing-- i have seen comments that Fla/Cal may soon be unsurable due to weather storms/floods/building materials etc! far too much construction in flood/ storm prone areas !! along the missipp. river southern wi rivers several small towns have been moved over the years due to regular flooding-but were were built in places 100 + years ago with poor/ no planning re. flooding --- 10,000 years ago i would be living at the southern edge of the ice that covered every thing to the north-- in the 1940s when i was a kid we could ski/sled over plowed fields much of the winter--now not for 50+ years---with natural or man added? warming beware where things are being built--- it seems best insurance deals are best/good rated insurance companys that are regional that do not have a lot of coverage in cal. and southeast coastal coverage where effects of weather events are the worst and high property values---property value taxes and insurance has been a pain here too SE MN. john old iron
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The plan is to price people out of their with tax and insurance increases so the large investment banks can buy the property up and rent it back to you.
Remember, you'll own nothing and be happy
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we use AAA for home and auto in southern cal,,car ins went up to 2450 for three cars,1 is liability only,so i upped the deductable to max and it brought it down to $2k.we are not in a flood or fire zone so home ins has double in last 6 years.still reasonable
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Let me tell you guys a story....
My daughter got in a wreck, 70K 2016 absolutely immaculate Jeep Wrangler Unlimited. Deployed two airbags, but Jeep didn't look wrecked, bent bumper, plastic fender flare torn. I arrived, cut the airbag out, and drove to bodyshop, not a squeak, rattle or issue driving. All the cost was airbag stuff
Now, when dad and I had the garage and bodyshop, adjusters would nickel and dime you for used parts, repairing parts, you name it, drop the price to fix. It was a pain, but understood, keep costs down, not an option today. Quote was determined by a third party who never saw the car in person. Body shop only took pictures for them from 4 corners
What happened here is they then added up LIST prices, for example, passenger side airbag was 2400.00 alone. Then totalled the vehicle at an over 20K repair bill.
As a legal and registered Nebraska auto repair business, I offered a discount quote, took the actual approved estimate and wrote up the same part numbers at retail prices, what any of us would pay at mopar.com, with sources, no shortcuts, same labor, same part numbers, same procedures. (that 2400-dollar airbag was 1600 retail, and my cost was 1100). Even at retail, I ended up at 14K, which wouldn't have totaled the car.
Their heads exploded, so I gave them my reasons I wanted to save the car and showed the extensive service records, recent pictures, upgrades, etc, and even offered a military discount to drop it further, not to mention full (and expected) option to reinspect and save all parts and receipts. (Remember, running driving car after the accident)
The bureaucracy would not allow it, so, with all my inputs on the car's quality and maintenance, they instead RAISED my payout by almost 4000 and paid me well for the now totaled Jeep.
As a recap
- LIST prices higher than retail lost the original local body shop the job
- Would not allow retail prices on the same quote from another business losing me as a repair shop
- Would not allow discounts, which just seems crazy
- PAID out ridiculously to the point I would have been silly to try to pursue.
She got a new Grand Cherokee, I ended up buying the Jeep back, cheap, and now I will be in it cheap as a spare parts runner and I can fix with used and aftermarket parts, but with a salvage title because of unrealistic and non-negotiable costs. As hail damage and other things happen, the scale of this is enormous, never mind homeowner insurance. Raising prices for everyone's insurance, be very careful if you have anything but a very high dollar car and you drive it in for damage. You may lose it, but you probably will get paid well
This is the new normal in the auto repair industry.
An incident occurs and the vehicle is damaged, but not much....often still being safe and driveable without repairs.
The insurance company takes a cursory look and declares the vehicles a total loss....often times to the detriment of the vehicle owner.
Most people have little to no mechanical abilites or understanding concerning the ways of mechanical things so they take the loss appraisal at face value and proceed with the total loss claim.
At which point an otherwise viable vehicle is removed from the road and often a new vehicle is purchased as the replacement.
Because this makes very little mechanical and financial sense....specifically because the repairs required are not extensive or critical, I have come to believe there is a concerted effort to simply remove any older vehicles from the road, and claiming a "total loss" by insurance is but one method for doing just that.
Its just a theory based on direct experiences I have had dealing with lightly damaged vehicles being written off as a "total loss" by the insurance company.
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I was rear ended and pushed in to the back of a pickup in my 2015 Ford Focus(in 2018) the first estimate by an adjuster from my insurance co was for If I recall $9700. I thought that was low and had it sent to a shop not far from me. They did a inspection and estimated it at $11,000ish. The insurance co for the guy that hit me though that was high and ordered them to partly dismantle the car for a better estimate. That came in at closer to $14,000. At the time almost full retail value of the car. Note, none of my air bags deployed.
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+1 super snake
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WOOOOHHH almost $8500 in insurance :o :o :o I pay about $35 for the galaxie $150 for the dayly Mercedes and wifes SL500 is about$250
and house about $300 so 700-800 total
In north of Sweden that is i probably should have told
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I am not sure why all the surprise. We should all have known this was, or is, coming. Home values up 35-50% in less than five years. A truck is now $70,000. Food, etc. double. Building materials...up 50%. Insurance is a business model, and they have to make money. When inflation hits, it hits them as well and that is passed on to the payers...i.e. us. Best advice I can give is shop it. I have had good luck with a broker. Also keep in mind that with insane inflation that means deductibles should rise equally. 500 is now 1,000 etc. With that, one would think it would keep the playing field somewhat level with simply increasing your deductible, but it won't.
Now if you want to be real upset...let us talk taxes! Their 20% is now a bigger dollar value simply based on rising cost. We are not going to see any help from that.
Like MStang said, the auto side is a racquet in itself.
I for one do not advocate for not having insurance. You may go on for years not needing it, but the one time you do need it for a major event it can really impact your livelihood. Work it so it works for you but things are way to pricey if you do not have the money set aside to replace it. Just my .02 that is now .06 or is .0001....guess it depends.
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Insurance, taxes, new cars,??? How about plumbers and HVAC guys? I had my water heater quit on me yesterday, and I went to Lowes to buy an new one and ask for a local plumber to give a quote to install it for me. I got a call while still in the Lowes store for an appointment today and was told a guy would be here in 30-45 minutes, and two hours later another call for another 30-45 minutes. Anyway, a young guy came in a company vehicle, looked at the water heater, checked the circuit breaker, and gave me a quote of $1600.00 labor for a 45 minute job. Claimed it is the normal price to replace a water heater--an electric water heater. Three pipes, no soldering, an electric cord, and done. If the water pressure needed a pressure reducing valve, another $500.00. OK, maybe I am getting older and cranky, but this is just plain robbery. Am I losing touch with reality? LOL Being retired is beginning to not be fun. Joe-JDC
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Joe, do it yourself, not hard. I think I have replaced 2 or 3 of them and only needed help getting a new 75gal tank up onto the raised platform in my garage. Took me maybe a few hours because I clean up and paint behind it before installation.
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+1 on doing it yourself, I've done mine and it was pretty easy. I think there are more and more companies out there who are doing stupid high estimates for household work, figuring that one in 10 or 20 customers will go for it and they can make a killing. I had a plumbing company come out and offer to plastic coat the inside of my house drain line to the septic tank, which gets filled with roots every few years and needs to be augured out. They came in with cameras, took a fancy video of the inside of the pipe, then hit me with a $14,000 estimate! The line is only about 50 feet, and it costs about $150 every few years to keep it clean. I don't know who would pay for something like that, but apparently there are people who will...
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Speaking of insurance! Wifes sisters house burned down yesterday lets see what the insurance company is
willing to pay. In one hour it was only the chimney left of it, she was working in the garden went in for some
tools did not smell any smoke or someting suspisious. 10-15 minutes later they saw smoke pouring out of the
chimney 45 minutes later only the chimney was left. fire department arrived in 15 minutes from she saw the
smoke but to late to save anything
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+1 on doing it yourself, I've done mine and it was pretty easy. I think there are more and more companies out there who are doing stupid high estimates for household work, figuring that one in 10 or 20 customers will go for it and they can make a killing. I had a plumbing company come out and offer to plastic coat the inside of my house drain line to the septic tank, which gets filled with roots every few years and needs to be augured out. They came in with cameras, took a fancy video of the inside of the pipe, then hit me with a $14,000 estimate! The line is only about 50 feet, and it costs about $150 every few years to keep it clean. I don't know who would pay for something like that, but apparently there are people who will...
:o :o Plumbers must be the royalties in USA! I just had Geotermal heating installed and they drove a 6 in steeltube through earth 200 feet, drilled through 800feet
bedrock, installed dual plastic tube those 1000 feet filled it with cooling media (Alcohol). At a cost of about $9,000
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I'm sure you guys have heard this one:
A pipe burst in a doctor's house. He called a plumber. The plumber arrived, unpacked his tools, did the plumber-things for an hour, and handed the doctor a bill for $600.
The doctor exclaimed, "This is ridiculous! I don't even make that much as a doctor!."
The plumber quietly answered, "Neither did I when I was a doctor."
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I did it myself! I installed a new expansion tank, new inline pressure reducer valve, new fittings, and tubing for $226.00 for a net savings of $1874.00. When a 78 year old great-grandfather can replace a hot water heater successfully by himself for $226.00 plus $565.00 for a 50 gallon water heater, it should make any plumber ashamed to quote same $2100.00 labor. JMO. Joe-JDC
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Great job, one more comment. Did you replace it with an energy efficient water heater?
(Most of them are) The city I lived in was offering rebates if you used a new energy efficient model and it cut my cost in half.
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....which gets filled with roots every few years and needs to be augured out....
There is a product called RootX. This is a treatment for sewer pipes with root problems. I did the auger thing a couple time, then used the RootX and the roots never came back. https://rootx.com/
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Just seen report California should expect 30-40% increase in insurance next year and electricity has passed rent in so cal $1300 rent $1800 electricity. We have smud in Sacramento set stat at 80 for summer no shop lights in daylight we have a well with 5hp pump all major watering is set up so pump comes on and stays on water heater and cooking is propane lawn in pretty much dead $600 per month. Let me tell you Democrat super majority don't work!
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I replaced my water heater earlier this year....Here is what I found new to me.
In 2004 I replaced my homes water heater with a high end, professional grade unit, that was about as top of the line as one could get that year in terms of a plain, gas fired, water heater.
I did not need any special monitoring, electronic controls, or other devices that year so i purchased a good water heater.....and it lasted 20 years without an issue.
Yeah, I did regular flushing and other maintenance items as suggested by the manufacturer, but for the most part the water heater just heated water for 20 years straight....Good in my book.
This year that old water heater tank began to seep water....just a hint of moisture on the floor and after checking I found a slight crack in the main tank.....time for a new water heater I figured.
Guess what? The new rules, at least here in Minnesota, will not allow me to purchase that level of quality water heater without a professional plumbers license.
I tried, and tried, and eventually ws relegated to buying what the home stores have to offer.
Menards, Home Depot, LOWES do NOT carry the quality level of water heater I was replacing, but seeing as I don't have a professional plumbers license I could not go to other suppliers to purchase a high end water heater.
I purchased a nice water heater from LOWES, and it was on sale too.
$1,200 for the same basic parameters water heater I purchased in 2004 for $365, but the new version is nowhere near the quality.....I hope it lasts ten years.
I learned I have been restricted by new commerce laws concerning what I can purchase and install in my own home....for my own safety of course......
I learned I, effectively, can not purchase a high quality, well made, water heater because the stores simply do not carry those items any longer...The homes stores do not have the brand name or models I had before eventhough that brand name and model is still in existence and not rare in terms of what plumbers can attain.
I learned it now costs me 4x the price to get lesser products than just 20 years ago.
I learned the industry has become complacent with the idea that 10 years is considered a long time for a water heater to last.
I learned that expansion tanks are made to last 3-4 years.....just 3-4 years before they are expected to fail!!!!! and the industry is fine with replacement ever 2-3 years as the normal.
Yes, there are some critical things one must know and understand when installing a water heater....especially during initial install.
But the level of expertise required to replace and existing water heater is basic common sense and attention to details.
The water heater I replaced in 2004 was 12 year old unit with the cobbled result of a "professional" (all the tags, receipts, and paperwork were present from the company that did the work) install that required me to fix the gas piping system, exhaust venting system, water plumbing system as well as a few other items when I did my install of the new water heater in 2004.
All the work I redid, as a non-professional plumber, was far superior to anything I have seen in other homes, and was a HUGE improvement to both safety and usability in my own home.
This work/repair I performed in 2004 resulted in me having to do very little new work in 2024 with the recent water heater replacement, and the new unit is a different make and model than what was removed so i expected there to be some modification required......nope, pretty standard dimensions, making the removal and install pretty easy by my standards.
Now, with that in mind, I was quoted in the $2,000+ range to have a professional install the new water heater I just put in.....and the price of the water heater would be extra on top of that.
I was not aware plumbers were earning $300-$500 per hour these days.
As it was, I invested a total of about 20 hours between initial diagnosis of the failed water heater, research and subsequent failures to attain a new water heater due to the BS safety rules preventing me from purchasing what I had previously purchased, removal of the old unit, clean up of the surrounding area (a thing you will NOT get when the PRO does the install) and install of the new unit.....which included diagnosing and replacement of the gas valve under warranty because the brand new POS gas valve did not work right out of the box.
Had I paid to have a plumber do all of the work I did I would have likely had $4,000 into this water heater replacement.
Instead I purchased what I could and had it installed on one weeked afternoon.
Had the gas valve not been faulty I would have gone from shut off and removal of old to fire up and use of new on that Saturday.
My mechanical and electrical knowledge and abilities have been useful my whole life as I undertake these tasks that, to me anyway, make sense and seem relatively simple.
But with this new twist of "NO you can't for your own safety" becoming a real hurtle to my own self preservation and maintenance of my home, I have become a bit concerned how the future will play out in my ability to afford the things I have come to provide for me and my family.
$3,000-$5,000, expected every ten years for a water heater, furnace, A/C unit, along with all the other expenses normal life brings...and I'm not even talking about an extravagant lifestyle, seems untenable from my positon....and I am doing a bit better than average!!!!!!
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Expect to replace your water heater every 7~10, that's just how it is. The kind of water heater that lasted 24 years in our old house just doesn't seem to exist anymore. And - be careful about crowing about DIY and saving tons of money on the local social page. Lots of cities are requiring permits for this work, even DIY. There is a lot of hack work and so much unpermitted work causes cities a lot of grief and expense, so you can hardly blame them. I see it a lot here. The city did streamline the permit process so they try to make it as easy as possible.
And yea, we had to go house insurance shopping this year. The existing company - Hippo - went up and re-set the type of coverage. Basically, the adjustment for deterioration would have made replacing our $10K+ roof all our expense after about 10 years. Hail storm at year 11 - on you, buddy. Not gonna do it, wouldn't be prudent. I think State Farm wrote a decent policy and the only agent that responded to requests for quote is 400ish miles away, go figure. In Houston, where rates are way high thanks to repeated flooding and potential hurricane damage. Here, all we have to fret about is giant hail and tornadoes. My wife, who is from New Mexico, gently reminds me that "they don't have those problems in Albuquerque..." ;D There may be another shop build in my future LOL.