FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: Stangman on July 03, 2024, 11:13:53 PM
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Is there such a thing as a 170 degree thermostat in the larger diameter. If I punch it in they come up the small diameter. Has anyone found one and know part number.
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I've never heard of a 170 stat. Factory is 195, and they're readily available in 160, 180, and 195. The smallblock MOPAR (and others) uses the same large diameter stat so you might try searching Rockauto to see if something turns up there.
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Are they 2 1/2 inch?
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Are they 2 1/2 inch?
I believe the thermostat is 2-1/2" OD and the hole in the housing is 2-3/8".
(https://i.imgur.com/BQZ9tpEl.jpg)
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Ok not that it really helps Stangman but that size is very common here in Australia
Tridon part #tt334-170 check the web page see if this will fit size is all metric https://www.tridon.com.au/products/Tridon/35/479/thermostats-nd-gaskets/381955/thermostat/1325/TT334-170#
ns
I can't find any of the Australian brand names in the USA.
If you get stuck I can get one and post it over. The retail for around 65 70 AUD they are not really cheap.
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I see the flange diameter is 64 mm, I believe the Ford one is 58 mm which I believe is 2.5 inches. Every time I punch in it comes up the small thermostat. I really just wanted to try it. I usually use a 180. I just used a 160 but the fan come on and stays on. The 180 depending on the outside temperature the fans go on at 192 and will shut off sometimes. Would just like to leave myself a little wiggle room with the 170. Gonna get a new cooling system as soon as I save a little and then I probably will be good. I told Harry what I was getting and he went and got it and it’s working out well for him. He’s got 625 horse and he’s saying around 185 even in hot weather.
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58mm is 2.28 inches so just over 2 1/4 inch they don't make a 58mm one but there is a 56mm or 2.2 inch
https://www.tridon.com.au/products/Tridon/35/479/thermostats-nd-gaskets/528046/thermostat-high-flow/1306/TT281-170
That sounds more like how you have your fans set up are you using a stand alone fan controller?
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Hmm I guess 2.5 inches is 64 mm. I’m using a single temp sensor for both fans. To be honest at the moment I don’t have a thermostat in there so maybe that’s why it was running a little hot today. When it was just sitting there and I was making timing adjustment and carb adjustments it wouldn’t go over 180/185. Sitting there for 30 minutes. Then drove to a buddies house about 7 miles away and it was 195 all the way. I know it’s not terrible but it’s not what I want. I’m gonna get the cooling system I want but I did want to try a 170 thermostat with a fan switch of 185 and I think that would be a nice compromise. I’m gonna see if my parts store can get that thermostat your showing
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I hope you have some luck with thermostat I would not be surprised if that brand is just called something else in the USA.
I think for your new set up you should look into something like this for your fans
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/dcw-dc-0444
I run one and I just use my autometer temp gauge inside the car and adjust the digital fan switch to dial in the temp I want to aim for.
for example on my car when my gauge hits 180 (probe for it is in manifold) I look at what the temp is on the digital fan switch ( fan switch probe is external in radiator fins) it may say 165 deg.
That gives me a guide actual water temp and what my fan switch temp probe is at then I just adjust it so my fans only turn on when my gauge inside hits 180 and will turn off when below that temp you can also have one fan come on at a set temp and the second at another temp
I rate those switch's very highly only down side is they are some what ugly but you can hide it as long as you can see the screen and get to the buttons for adjustments.
One last question when you went for your short drive and it ran at 195 dose it come back down to 180 185 when you stop and let it idle for a min or 2?
that is a good way to tell if you have enough fan and radiator now if it can pull the temp back down to 180 fairly quickly your good if it can't or it takes more then a min or 2 then your current set up may be right on the edge
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The controller is a good idea. I had one like that before I went with what I have. It was my first ride I still have to put a thermostat in but I’m thinking I want to get the cooling system soon. It does cool down after a few minutes last year after I got car squared away it was good 95 percent of the time unless I got stuck in traffic on a hot day.
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Chrysler 440 thermostats are 2.5 inches and readily available, at 2.5 inches OD, and available in 160 or 180. I use the 180 style all the time for the big FE housing
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Wanted to try a 170 but been using 180 forever. Tried a 160 but then fan is always on. Gonna get cooling system and will post my results..
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I would only add that 195 is not "hot" and that the higher water temp will transfer more heat out of the engine and the temp differential makes the radiator work better, especially if it's aluminum. Aluminum dual core radiator and electric fans - I'd run nothing under 195 as a thermostat. Even my race cars run a 180 because it way easier to control staging temp and keep the engine at an even temp over all with the hotter fluid. That includes running on both gas and methanol.
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It is an aluminum 2 row 1 1/4 inch tubes. It doesn’t run hot but I want to be able to drive my car anytime I want. As is that can’t happen. If I am in traffic on a really hot day it would keep creeping and eventually it would overheat. I won’t let it because I would pull over in time. Normally on really hot days I just don’t drive it besides it’s not a pleasant ride in that kind of heat. But if I’m going to a car show or something like that and it’s hot out and I’m on a line I would like it to not overheat. I do normally run a 180 thermostat but wanted to try a 170. It really was just a thought. If I could keep it 5 to 10 degrees cooler I could better gauge the temperature if I’m on some sort of line.
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If the system does not have the capacity a lower thermostat would only delay the inevitable.
What temp do you consider overheating? What is the highest temp you have see?
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Probably around 200 but I don’t let it go over that. That would be in traffic not while it’s driving. It never actually overheats I just want it to cool better. My last motor it ran a little cooler. I guess another 75 horse and it’s running a smidge hotter. Maybe I’m just being to picky but if I can keep it cool it’s a win in my mind.
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If your seeing a max of 200 deg your well in the safe zone. I would not be getting concerned until it starts to head over 220 deg.
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If your seeing a max of 200 deg your well in the safe zone. I would not be getting concerned until it starts to head over 220 deg.
I agree with Mike
I also do not think a thermostat will help anyway, low speed overheating is generally air flow. On a Mustang it could be fan/pulley sizing or exit airflow issues. The Mustang shock towers don't help
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I've never heard of a 170 stat. Factory is 195, and they're readily available in 160, 180, and 195. The smallblock MOPAR (and others) uses the same large diameter stat so you might try searching Rockauto to see if something turns up there.
I have never heard of any FE engine ever coming with a 195 degree thermostat. Those may be common in modern computer controlled, EFI engines, but I would certainly never run one in an older carbureted engine, especially one that I wanted performance from. Between the increased chances of pinging, reduced performance, and obviously an engine running at 195 degrees is much closer to overheating than the same engine running at 170-180 degrees. Personally, I am not a big fan of aftermarket electric fans, I know to many people that have had overheating issues with them. There is a huge difference between an OE electric fan system, than the typical aftermarket stuff. Compare the size of the wiring and alternator output on a modern car with electric fans, to the wiring most aftermarket fans use.I have been running 160 thermostats in my FEs for close to 50 years, and my current 428 CJ also has one, and with an aluminum 2 row (1 1/8" tubes), with a 7 blade 18" mechanical fan, and driving down the road in usually runs 165-170 degrees, maybe a touch higher on hot summer days. If I get stuck in a gridlock situation for 15 minutes or more , on a warm day, it can slowly climb up t about 200, but goes back down pretty quickly once moving again. I have had it idling for over 1/2 hour on a hot summer day, and it has never overheated.
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As usual. Spot on real world input from Rory. I’ve followed his comments on here for awhile and find his input to be of great value .
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Rory is that 18 inch fan a clutch fan. And are you running a shroud. Is it the original type radiator or switched over to a crossflow
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If your seeing a max of 200 deg your well in the safe zone. I would not be getting concerned until it starts to head over 220 deg.
I agree with Mike
I also do not think a thermostat will help anyway, low speed overheating is generally air flow. On a Mustang it could be fan/pulley sizing or exit airflow issues. The Mustang shock towers don't help
Just as an example on the effect of pulley size. Someone gave me a nice looking aluminium water pump pulley. It was about 3/8 larger than the one that was on there, it just fitted. When I tried it there was an immediate and quite noticeable rise in idle temps. Removed it immediately. Was it the fan speed drop, pump speed drop or a combo? Dunno, but I was very surprised how little of a change made a significant difference.
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Stangman what do you use to trigger your fans?
Do you use a electronic fan switch mounted in the manifold or radiator thermostat housing? link here of what I am talking about https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-890117
They come in many temp ranges you can check exactly what one you have with boiling water thermometer and a multimeter I would use one with 170 to 180 range = fan come on @ 180 and fan turns off @ 170
I think your getting lost in the thermostat temp. Thermostat temp 160 170 180 only lets the water flow at that temp.
160 thermostat and electronic fan switch 170 to 180 range for a warm to hot climate is what I would use in any of these type of cars/engines
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In stop and go traffic the engine isn’t making any power, so really not generating a lot of heat, although if your initial timing is a little low it can heat things a little bit
What is happening is you are losing airflow under the car and into the radiator, which is why they get warm, both help cooling air flow
If you cannot add fan volume with speed or fan size, you could try to add a couple degrees initial, and/or you could try a 160 thermostat, but as I said I think it’s airflow
Been there with mine too
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Rory is that 18 inch fan a clutch fan. And are you running a shroud. Is it the original type radiator or switched over to a crossflow
No, the fan is a stainless steel Flax A Lite 18" 7 blade HD model, and no shroud, as 59 Ford cars never came with them. And it is a stock style "up and down" style radiator. Many years before, I ran the exact same model fan , (with the factory fan shroud), in my 70 428 CJ Mach 1, with a 160 thermostat, with similar results, using the factory CJ radiator. And on my old 69 428 CJ Mach 1, the factory clutch fan, shroud, and radiator also worked well.
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If your seeing a max of 200 deg your well in the safe zone. I would not be getting concerned until it starts to head over 220 deg.
I agree with Mike
I also do not think a thermostat will help anyway, low speed overheating is generally air flow. On a Mustang it could be fan/pulley sizing or exit airflow issues. The Mustang shock towers don't help
Just as an example on the effect of pulley size. Someone gave me a nice looking aluminium water pump pulley. It was about 3/8 larger than the one that was on there, it just fitted. When I tried it there was an immediate and quite noticeable rise in idle temps. Removed it immediately. Was it the fan speed drop, pump speed drop or a combo? Dunno, but I was very surprised how little of a change made a significant difference.
I do have a smaller water pump pulley from CVF. It did make a difference over the stock pulley
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Stangman what do you use to trigger your fans?
Do you use a electronic fan switch mounted in the manifold or radiator thermostat housing? link here of what I am talking about https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-890117
They come in many temp ranges you can check exactly what one you have with boiling water thermometer and a multimeter I would use one with 170 to 180 range = fan come on @ 180 and fan turns off @ 170
I think your getting lost in the thermostat temp. Thermostat temp 160 170 180 only lets the water flow at that temp.
160 thermostat and electronic fan switch 170 to 180 range for a warm to hot climate is what I would use in any of these type of cars/engines
Like I said as of the moment I don’t even have a thermostat in there couldn’t find my old one and my parts store was closed it was a Sunday. But yes I do have that same switch. When I was running the 180 thermostat I had a switch that turned on at 190 and shut off at 175 although if it was hot out it wouldn’t shut off but would stay somewhere around 187-190 which is fine unless I get stuck in traffic.
Now with the new motor I had tried a 160 stat and a temp switch of I think 175 on and 160 off. And if I don’t get caught in traffic or if it’s not brutally hot it runs about the same as the other set up 185-190. I want to be able to drive in any weather.
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Rory is that 18 inch fan a clutch fan. And are you running a shroud. Is it the original type radiator or switched over to a crossflow
No, the fan is a stainless steel Flax A Lite 18" 7 blade HD model, and no shroud, as 59 Ford cars never came with them. And it is a stock style "up and down" style radiator. Many years before, I ran the exact same model fan , (with the factory fan shroud), in my 70 428 CJ Mach 1, with a 160 thermostat, with similar results, using the factory CJ radiator. And on my old 69 428 CJ Mach 1, the factory clutch fan, shroud, and radiator also worked well.
Years ago I had a steel fan it was a stock one I don’t know where my dad got it I think it was a 7 blade fan. It would still do what it does now. I’ve been a temperature gauge watching driver forever.
Boy wouldn’t it be nice to not have to watch it all the time.
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In stop and go traffic the engine isn’t making any power, so really not generating a lot of heat, although if your initial timing is a little low it can heat things a little bit
What is happening is you are losing airflow under the car and into the radiator, which is why they get warm, both help cooling air flow
If you cannot add fan volume with speed or fan size, you could try to add a couple degrees initial, and/or you could try a 160 thermostat, but as I said I think it’s airflow
Been there with mine too.
My initial is already fairly high. I keep it between 22 and 26, I do think it’s air flow and maybe not enough fan speed. I do have an electric pump and a dual fan setup and my alternator is a pumped up 55 amp which is around 70 now. That is another thing that will be getting upgraded. At idle with fans on you can hear them spin a little slower which could also be a part of this problem. I do believe with my new setup and a bigger alternator it’s gonna be better.
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I ended up running an 18 inch Flexalite clutch fan and 5555 clutch with a aftermarket shroud and ceramic coated headers However, what made the biggest difference sitting in traffic was the Boss 9 scoop.
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I ended up running an 18 inch Flexalite clutch fan and 5555 clutch with a aftermarket shroud and ceramic coated headers However, what made the biggest difference sitting in traffic was the Boss 9 scoop.
I definetly want to get the 67 Shelby scoop hood for my car. Been looking to see who makes the best one. They also make one with louvers. I’m not a big fan of louvers but boy would that let the heat out.
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Joe, we bought a Dynacorn Shelby hood, haven't used it yet. It has the metal frame underneath with the fiberglass top. Very nice. It's heavy, but very good quality.
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I ended up running an 18 inch Flexalite clutch fan and 5555 clutch with a aftermarket shroud and ceramic coated headers However, what made the biggest difference sitting in traffic was the Boss 9 scoop.
I definetly want to get the 67 Shelby scoop hood for my car. Been looking to see who makes the best one. They also make one with louvers. I’m not a big fan of louvers but boy would that let the heat out.
Stangman, the fit of the fiberglass Shelby hood is just not as good as factory sheet metal. My original Shelby wasn’t bad but just not as tight and aligned as well. My Tony Branda hood on the race car is off more than I would like but unless I wanted to spend a ton getting it modified to fit better I just have to learn to live with it. The louvers were an option I should have gone with to get more air flow out of the engine compartment but it hasn’t overheated yet and I was racing it in 95 degree weather.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FdfrZyr2/20240415-190707.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FdfrZyr2)
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I ended up running an 18 inch Flexalite clutch fan and 5555 clutch with a aftermarket shroud and ceramic coated headers However, what made the biggest difference sitting in traffic was the Boss 9 scoop.
I definetly want to get the 67 Shelby scoop hood for my car. Been looking to see who makes the best one. They also make one with louvers. I’m not a big fan of louvers but boy would that let the heat out.
Be a bit careful, and selective, in the hood openings you choose to run in a non-race car.
While the hood opening can allow for better underhood airflow they can also change the in car comfort too.
Example, the 1969 Shelby GT500 hood has three forward, and two rear NACA ducts in the hood.
The rear ducts are allowing hot underhood air to flow out....but that hot underhood air flows directly into the cowl "fresh air" inlets.
This makes the use of the fresh air vents inside the cabin pretty useless because they flow pretty hot air, rather than the cooler outside air we are used to with other vehicles that dont have rear style hood openings letting hot underhood air into the cowl vents.
I would work on directing air through the radiator first, and only after that has failed to improve things would I think about putting vents/holes in the hood to let hot air out.
This is something that has become standard practice in the Sunbeam Tiger world.
When new the Tiger had marginal cooling at best.
Add a little power to the small block and things just get worse.
But when you examine the way the front end is built, including the radiator core support, it is easy to spot plenty of areas where the airflow is allowed to flow around the radiator instead of being directed through the radiator.
By blocking and redirecting airflow around the radiator to now go through the radiator, the cooling system suddenly becomes much more capable while not having changed anything about the literal cooling system components.
Add a better radiator and better fan and the cooling capacity goes up even more.
Work on directing the airflow, even that only pulled by the fan while sitting in traffic, through the radiator by eliminating areas where the air can flow around the radiator first.
A useful fan that moves enough air.
A properly fitted shroud with the fan set into the shroud at least 1/3 of the fans blade depth.
Areas of the radiator core support blocked to direct air through the radiator best.
Air deflectors under hood to help air escape out the back, lower portion of the engine compartment....cardboard cutouts duct taped into place work great as test pieces before making anything more premanent.
Good luck.