FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: Jb427 on May 08, 2024, 08:48:22 AM
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My engine has be in my car now for just over 2 years now and has well over 5000miles but less then 7k on it engine is a solid roller bbm block and heads and intake and it has been flawless. I was thinking of pulling the engine soon and doing a check of lifters and pull a few main and rod caps just to see how everything looks. Am I crazy for thinking about it? when would be a good time to think about it?.
It has had a pretty easy life so far no strip runs just street driving and a skid once and a wile and lots of highway miles
Second half of this post has to do with oil temps and highway driving I have always had a concern about my oil temp when highway driving not really a problem @65mph @3000rpm sits at about 200 might get to 220 on a hot day and 70mph for 30min to an hour. Last weekend I gave the car a bit of a hard run on the way to a local car show ran at 75/80mph for around 30min at 3500 3600rpms engine oil temp hit 230@60/65psi. Oil temp is stable and it came right back down 190 200 as soon as I had to slow down for built up area's 40/50mph speed zones. I do run an oil cooler I am not sure if I should change oil type at the moment I am running Penrite HPR 30 20w/60 https://penriteoil.com.au/products/hpr-30-20w-60-mineral Every oil change has looked great nothing abnormal in the oil filter. Would the BBM block being cast solid below the water plugs be why? everything else is great water temp will only get to 200 on the hottest of days the day before I went to another local event and sat in bumper to bumper traffic for 2 hours to do a 2 lap cruise of the main streets of the town near me with about 1000+ other cars water temp sat at 165 to 180 engine oil sat at 180/190@40/45psi at idle trans temp sat at 180/190 the entire time it was a cooler night 26 deg C. Any thoughts on oils I can't get some of the oils you can get in the USA here in Australia but I thinking of switching to a synthetic oil.
Thoughts? Cheers JB.
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200*F for oil, or water, temps is just fine...no worries.
220*F for oil, or water temps is just fine....but getting up there.
Many choose temps in the 160-180 range and that is not ideal for many reasons...too cool.
But even 235*F is okay for one of these engines.
As long as those temps are under control things are fine.
"Under control" means the temp has been reached but the temp is sustained....not creeping up, or going up, down, up, down, quickly without a peak or sustained temp the engine reaches.
60 weight oil seems excessively heavy.
This is causing a lot more stress on the oil pump driveshaft, and cam gear driving that oil pump.
If your bearing tolerances are correct (depends on parameters of build) you should be able to run a thinner oil with no issues...a 10W/30 for instance.
Switching to a synthetic oil, after break in, is not a bad idea so long as you run an oil with a useful additive package for your needs.....Most synthetics these days are already set for anti-corrosion as well as coating/sticking to metal surfaces to prevent corrosion when the engine sits. Check into the specific oil you intend to use to learn the parameters of that oil formulation.
By the way, those formulations are subject to change every 6 months so check up on that from time to time to know what is in the oil....this stinks because it is effort we should not have to deal with, but it is the realities of engine oil these days.
Concerning your temps with the oil cooler....They do seem a bit high at 230*F while using an oil cooler....Maybe your oil cooler is too small, or not working efficiently.
But then you say you have the solid block so there is less water in the block taking away heat.
Again, as long as temps are under control it sounds fine.
If you are not running a T-stat with your oil cooler I suggest you install one.
With the T-stat you have better control over the oil temps, which serves the engine better.
Set the oil cooler T-stat around 195*F (meaning it bypasses the cooler until temps reach 195*F)
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Bit more info on the engine 482ci Scat steel crank 4.25" callies ultra rods 6.7" diamond flat top pistons cnc bbm heads t&d race rockers 260psi seat 630psi @.700 lift morel lifters camshaft is 258 264 @50 695 695 110lsa 11.3 to 1 cr bbm tunnel wedge 2x 735 cfm carbs moroso t pan pop hv oil pump bbm block 4.250 car is 3800 pounds
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On pulling the engine, I wouldn't bother with that at any time. However, I would recommend pulling the solid roller lifters at around 8K-10K miles, and either replacing them or getting them rebuilt. Provided they have the pin oiling feature, and the lash is under control, they should be good for at least that long, but you don't want to take a chance of one of them failing.
Synthetics handle heat a lot better than mineral oils, but even at 230 degrees I don't think you are pushing the envelope too hard. At Drag Week in 2016 I ran 250 degrees all week, with Valvoline VR1 10W-30. I changed the oil once during the week just to be cautious, but it looked fine when it came out. This was with a partially filled Shelby block, and no oil cooler. I was uncomfortable with it at 250, so I will be adding an oil cooler to the car, but when that engine came apart after the event it looked brand new inside.
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On pulling the engine, I wouldn't bother with that at any time. However, I would recommend pulling the solid roller lifters at around 8K-10K miles, and either replacing them or getting them rebuilt. Provided they have the pin oiling feature, and the lash is under control, they should be good for at least that long, but you don't want to take a chance of one of them failing.
Synthetics handle heat a lot better than mineral oils, but even at 230 degrees I don't think you are pushing the envelope too hard. At Drag Week in 2016 I ran 250 degrees all week, with Valvoline VR1 10W-30. I changed the oil once during the week just to be cautious, but it looked fine when it came out. This was with a partially filled Shelby block, and no oil cooler. I was uncomfortable with it at 250, so I will be adding an oil cooler to the car, but when that engine came apart after the event it looked brand new inside.
That is why I am thinking of pulling the engine Jay I think it is less hassle to just pull the engine to check the lifters over doing it in the car and the engine gets regular oil changes and it always looks clean lash has always been good so far I will have to have a look at my notes to see exactly how many miles I have on them I do have a second set of lifters here ready to go.
As for the oil I think I would of been at 250 with out an oil cooler and oil temp is fine at 3000rpm and below for as long a drive as you like even on the hottest of days.
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200*F for oil, or water, temps is just fine...no worries.
220*F for oil, or water temps is just fine....but getting up there.
Many choose temps in the 160-180 range and that is not ideal for many reasons...too cool.
But even 235*F is okay for one of these engines.
Not to hijack the thread, but I have read many conflicting opinions on the 160-180 topic. Lots of people say this is too cool, many others say it's fine and that they've never had an engine wear out prematurely for running temp in that range. My engine was running in the 210-215 range with a 180 stat in the first 100 miles (90-100f southern summer days), but I altered the grill for better airflow and now it sits happy in 178-182. When I was in the 215 range, it dieseled badly on shutdown.
Just curious what your thoughts are on the 160-180 being too cool.
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Just curious what your thoughts are on the 160-180 being too cool.
Reference the chart in this post (http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=11627.msg128153#msg128153) and decide for yourself. Seems to me that the decision would come down to "How will I be running this engine?".
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200*F for oil, or water, temps is just fine...no worries.
220*F for oil, or water temps is just fine....but getting up there.
Many choose temps in the 160-180 range and that is not ideal for many reasons...too cool.
But even 235*F is okay for one of these engines.
Not to hijack the thread, but I have read many conflicting opinions on the 160-180 topic. Lots of people say this is too cool, many others say it's fine and that they've never had an engine wear out prematurely for running temp in that range. My engine was running in the 210-215 range with a 180 stat in the first 100 miles (90-100f southern summer days), but I altered the grill for better airflow and now it sits happy in 178-182. When I was in the 215 range, it dieseled badly on shutdown.
Just curious what your thoughts are on the 160-180 being too cool.
I run a 160 thermostat and I set my fan to come on and off at around 170 for my set up that seems to work the best normal running temp is 180 no matter the weather for me if my car goes much over 200 even under the hottest days 35C to 40deg C then I know there is a problem with fans or water pump belt and It only gets to 200 on highway drives and I think that is because of my fan shroud set up is restricting airflow at speed but is amazing in traffic just goes up to 180 fans kick on and pull it back down to 165 170 and turn off or it will just hold it at 180 on a hot day.
I really need to try a no shroud set up I bet that would fix highway heat but it will make it worse in traffic.
As for Run On mine did that when it was fresh and tight too I though it was too much timing but it was not and went away as it loosened up. I broke my engine in driving up a mountain.
I think people confuse 160 thermostat with that is where my temp will run but that is not the case all it will do is allow the water to flow @160 your fans and rad still need to be able to control the heat. If your cooling set up can maintain 160deg f that is a super cooling set up. It is hot here all year round I would be lucky to see a few weeks a year of sub 10deg C mornings and average of 20deg c days other 49 weeks of the year is 30deg c to 40deg c day or night .
If I was in a cooler climate I would run a 180 thermostat. I think running at 200 210 is fine too but you have very little margin for error if anything happens you will be pushing water out before you can find a good place to park and let it cool down. Just got to find what works for your car and climate.
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I am one of those supposedly "not ideal" proponents of cool running FEs. I have been running 160 degree thermostats in my FEs for 45 years, in everything from the nearly stock 390 in my 74 F350, that I owned for 26 years, 24 of those years with a ball honed std bore low compression 390. I sold that truck 10 years ago to a racing buddy, and as of the end of last year, it was still running fine. In my several street strip 428 CJ Mustangs, Cobra Fairlanes, and my current 59 2 door sedan, I usually see coolant gauge numbers of 160, to 180 (on hotter days), while driving, and it can climb up to 200 or a bit higher if sitting in traffic congestion for 10 minutes or more on a hot summer day, but it drops back down fairly quickly once it gets moving again. In addition to the better performance with a cooler running engine, I like having a "cushion" if I get stuck in gridlock. Maybe the performance of a factory late model computer controlled EFI engine, that is designed to run at well over 200 degree temps, doesn`t suffer much, but a 50-60 year old carbureted was not. Between vapour lock, fuel percolation, slow cranking to start such a hot engine, with a tight engine compartment, I will stick with running my engines "too cool", which has served me well for decades. As for the temp vs wear chart shown above, it looks pretty level from about 160 degrees upward, pretty sure that chart is showing how really cold temps , like starting a dead cold engine in freezing temperatures, is likely to cause increased wear.
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I always run a 160 degree thermostat and try to keep the engine temps at 170-180 or less. I think if I wanted the engine to go 100K miles I might be inclined to run a higher temperature, but in the vehicles I have the engines will never be driven that many miles, so that kind of longevity is not a concern. I like the fact that at the lower temps I am far away from any potential overheating issue, and of course the engine will make more power at lower temperatures, so that is a plus.
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Not saying that your engine can’t take it but highway cruising I like to be at 2800 rpm 3000 max. Driving at 3600 for 30 plus minutes is screaming to me. Maybe I’m being to cautious when I’m on the parkway. A drive like that could really get those ztemps up.
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Not saying that your engine can’t take it but highway cruising I like to be at 2800 rpm 3000 max. Driving at 3600 for 30 plus minutes is screaming to me. Maybe I’m being to cautious when I’m on the parkway. A drive like that could really get those ztemps up.
I agree Stangman it 100% is not good I would call it thrashing not to the extreme but I am sure it was harder then all the rips to 6500 combined Just like you said 2800 3000 is good. But it was interesting to see how everything responded when abused and I don't have any plans to repeat it. Over all I think it did pretty well oil got up in temp but it was stable.
I got in contact with the morel dealer here in Australia today so I will find out soon what it is worth and how long to rebuild a set of lifters.
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On pulling the engine, I wouldn't bother with that at any time. However, I would recommend pulling the solid roller lifters at around 8K-10K miles, and either replacing them or getting them rebuilt. Provided they have the pin oiling feature, and the lash is under control, they should be good for at least that long, but you don't want to take a chance of one of them failing.
Interesting, This is the first I've heard of this preventive maintenance. Can you expand on the reasons for this a bit? I'm coming up on 6000 street miles on my Harland Sharp RR set up on my 500 hp 427. Is this something I need to be doing as well?
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On pulling the engine, I wouldn't bother with that at any time. However, I would recommend pulling the solid roller lifters at around 8K-10K miles, and either replacing them or getting them rebuilt. Provided they have the pin oiling feature, and the lash is under control, they should be good for at least that long, but you don't want to take a chance of one of them failing.
Interesting, This is the first I've heard of this preventive maintenance. Can you expand on the reasons for this a bit? I'm coming up on 6000 street miles on my Harland Sharp RR set up on my 500 hp 427. Is this something I need to be doing as well?
It all has to do with running a Mechanical roller camshaft or some call them solid roller camshaft they use high spring pressure and because of that it is very hard on the solid roller lifters and other parts of the valve train. flat tappet, hydraulic flat tappet, hydraulic roller camshafts and lifter don't require such high spring pressure.
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Ahhhhh, thanks for that. I totally glossed past "solid roller"
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Not to hijack the thread, but I have read many conflicting opinions on the 160-180 topic. Lots of people say this is too cool, many others say it's fine and that they've never had an engine wear out prematurely for running temp in that range. My engine was running in the 210-215 range with a 180 stat in the first 100 miles (90-100f southern summer days), but I altered the grill for better airflow and now it sits happy in 178-182. When I was in the 215 range, it dieseled badly on shutdown.
Just curious what your thoughts are on the 160-180 being too cool.
FWIW - I run my race engines at 180, that includes if running methanol. Do I give up a few HPs? Sure, who cares. I bracket race and consistency wins, not HP. It's damn hard to keep an engine at 160 in the Texas heat when the ground under you in staging is 140. I have big fans and a big radiator but burning up battery juice trying to hold that colder temp is IMHO wasted time and effort. It's a lot easier to control in staging at 180. If I'm 180~190 rolling into the beams on a hot August day, we're good to go. Especially with methanol, running "in the window" jetting and staging at 180 and ending at 180~200 keeps the oil clean, which can be a serious problem with alcohol. It is kinda fun to have your engine idling at 180 and your intake manifold feeling like you could chill a Coke on it.