FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: dozz302 on October 22, 2023, 11:41:18 AM
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Hello, I have a distributor that won't budge. Motor has been sitting for decades. I pulled the pan and the distributor gear looks OK (no rust) but the rods do have surface rust. All in all the insides didn't look too bad. Heads are off and intake will move around so it is stuck in the bottom. I pulled the pan and put heat on the nose where it rests in the block as have been tapping the oil pump drive rod (not too hard) been putting PB Blaster on it and it won't budge or even spin on the shaft. It's a CJ distributor so don't want to damage it. Next I'm going to put spacers under the intake (to raise it up for more access maybe an inch or 2) and see if I can get channel locks (with rubber to protect distributor casting) on the part that rests in the intake where the rubber seal is and see if I can at least get it to spin.
At this point I'm willing to listen to any suggestions, Thank you
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Make a wrench to fit the housing that slips over the flat. Then tap it loose.
Or get a pipe wrench. Get a left handed one though it turns left handed. ;D
If you have patience oiling and wiggling will work over time.
The one in my 427 has marks from being beat out so that is an option also.
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Another problem I dealt with long ago, I think I wedged a long 2x4 or some piece of wood between the distributor housing and the intake and was able to pry it up.
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Tap it forwards and bacwards, then side to side gently with a rubber mallet
If you can lift the intake a bit or tear the rubber gasket off the get some PbBlaster in there
An oil filter wrench with rubber wrapped around the distributor, turning clocke wise and counter clockwise
...........................................
All of the muffler clamps on my65 were rusted after 25 years, sprayed them with PbBlaster twice a day for a week
They then turned right off, I blasted them, painted them high heat paint and reused them
Ricky.
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I guess there's only so many things you can do. Can't pry hard or will damage case. It won't move at all. Case is welded to the shaft and shaft welded to the block. That's what is feels like. Yes I will first have to get the case to spin or move on the shaft.
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What often happens to aluminum in a corrosive environment is the aluminum corrodes and as it does, the oxide layers begin to stratify. Essentially, swelling the distributor. You have to use penetrants to break the corrosive bond between the block and distributor. Auto trans fluid and acetone work well. That are a lot of witches brews that will do this so don't think one is better than another. Whatever you do, don't force anything. Tempting as it might be to use your Kung Fu grip, it can be costly.
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I have used brake fluid mixed with auto transmission fluid to remove corroded pistons in a rusty block with good success. It might be worth a try!.
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kroil and give it a tap or two every time you walk by it.
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Heat is usually your friend in these situations. Can you apply some? I bought some FE distributor cores at Carlisle this year. One was broken off at the bottom of the "bowl" due no doubt to an extraction effort. It can happen.
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I recall working with my old man at the Ford dealer one FE dist. that wouldn't move. Being we were working on commission and the truck was a commercial vehicle we didn't have the luxury of spraying it down every few hours and tapping on it. We had to get the truck back on the road. We set the engine on the floor and started disassembling it for a new short block tapping/prying on the distributor occasionally but it wouldn't budge. Even with the oil pan off it wouldn't move tapping from below. I think my old man lost patience and broke the bowl on it prying but it wouldn't move. After he broke the bowl it was game on. He took a long punch and big hammer and wailed on it from the bottom. It finally came out in 3 pieces. I still remember him saying "huh, looks like it has a bad distributor" when it popped out.
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dozz302, you have good info already so I'm just adding to the pile.
1) Patience is your best tool with this job.....if you care to keep the distributor housing anyway.
2) JB-80, Kroil, and PB Blaster have all proven to work well in side to side tests against other penetrants.
3) A 50:50 mix of acetone and automatic transmission fluid works well but the acetone makes it pretty flammable, and the acetone evaporates quickly, so only apply where needed and apply often while being careful to not get it on any painted surfaces you care about.
4) Apply some penetrant, let sit overnight, give the housing a twist right, a twist left, then a bump front/back/side/side with about enough force to just barely dent a new car fender using a rubber mallet or soft faced dead blow hammer......but always error on the side of not hitting hard enough....again, time and patience is your best tool for this job.
5) Depending on how badly corroded the distributor is this will get the housing out within a few hours up to a couple weeks....usually you get some useful movement within a day or two, but keep oiling between wiggle sessions while staying patient and not just twisting it off.
Good luck.
I hope the housing neck is not pitted beyond use once you get it removed.
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OK, coming from left field...
Many years ago, I inherited a 1940's Johnson outboard that came in the trunk of an old Ford. Frozen solid, wouldn't turn over. My shade-tree mechanic buddy suggested I pour Coca-Cola into the spark plug holes & let it work. VOILA! Success! It even ran afterwards.
You could try dumping some on just to see... Probably too messy.
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be patient,i have a 360 in my truck that was stuck,i took off the rockers,sprayed trans fluid and pb in the spark plug holes,tried to break it free with a big bar on the crank.i pushed and pulled on it for 10 days every morning.i then tried tapping the starter and it moved a little.after another week of tapping the starter,it moved a total of about 6 inches.i then tried tapping the starter WHILE pushing on the bar on the crank at the same time and it started spinning and spitting fluid out the spark plug holes. engine starts right up and runs good.
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Thanks for all the responses.
Well, the shaft turns now. Timing chain and gears are off and was able to get cam turning with distributor still not budging. Distributor is not corroded. Again, motor has been sitting for decades. I have been putting heat on the block (small bottle torch) where I can get it and tapping case to try and get it to start moving, from bottom and on top trying to get the case to spin. So it's stuck where aluminum touches cast iron in the block. I guess patience and tapping and putting a solution on it (maybe trying your suggestions). At least I know exactly what is holding it in now that the shaft turns.
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Maybe time to pull the pan and remove the oil pump and lightly tap the oil pump drive shaft. No expertise in this area, just a thought.
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You may not be getting enough heat. If not using MAPP gas, go to the home store & grab a yellow bottle. MAPP will provide more heat.
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Tapping the drive will do little. The body is corroded to the block. Breaking that corrosion is the real problem. You need to get your liquid of choice below the top gasket so it can work on the corrosion. If the block is out of the car then attack the problem from the bottom. Tapping on the bottom of the distributor itself after the joint has soaked in your liquid of choice is your best approach. May take several soakings.
I put a light coating of anti-seize on the body of the distributor before assembly. Probably a waste of time as my stuff seldom stays together for long.
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I don`t want to be a "downer", but sometimes, corrosion is just too severe to have a happy ending. About 10 years ago, I bought a 59 Ford parts car, that had a 68 390 just setting on the mounts, but never fully installed. The guy I bought it from, claimed that the 390 ran great, when he pulled it from a Galaxie, and stuck it in the 59, and get around to having it driving "some day". Some day turned into a few years, with the car sitting outside, with no carb, but a towel and tarp over the engine. Anyhow, when I got the car home, the crank wouldn`t budge, even with a breaker bar, so I tried all kinds of penetrating oils and homebrew concoctions that were "sure to free it up". I was in no rush, so over a period of about 3 months, I poured the following liquids down the intake manifold carb holes, and filled the cylinders as far as I could, be the following, all tried after allowing each to attempt to soak in for at least 2 weeks each. I tried PB Blaster, Marvel Mystery Oil, Liquid Wrench, diesel fuel, ATF, ATF mixed with solvent, and brake fluid. Each liquid was allowed to set for several days, when I would try to get the crankshaft to turn, and with all those "cures", and all that time, it never would budge. At that point, I figured it would be nice to at least be able to salvage the crank and rods, and hopefully the block, so I pulled the engine and removed the oil pan. The bottom end actually looked pretty clean, with no rust on the crank and ros, the bearings even looked decent. But when I tried to knock out the pistons that had the rods positioned in a location where the nuts for the rod caps could be removed, it was evident that the problem was that the pistons were totally corroded to the cylinder wall. I was able to get a few of pistons out, by really hammering the hell out of the pistons from below, and a couple of the pistons shattered in the attempt. After 3 months of various fluids, none of them ever made their way down the sides of the pistons at all. The rest of the rods, I had to cut off with a torch, to be able to remove the crankshaft, which was surprisedly in great condition. Other than the crank and 3 rods, the rest went on the scrap pile. The aluminum pistons were all that white fuzzy mess, and I guess that caused them to expand and eliminate any clearance between the piston and cylinder walls, and prevent any type of fluid to get past.
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Well, it finally came out undamaged.
I used the PB Blaster & heat mostly. Probably used the torch from under the intake and the front of the block at least 10 times in each spot spraying PB when warm so when it cooled it could get in when the metals are moving & tapping in many spots. Spraying a couple times a day also. Last thing I did was put vinegar on it once after heating then the next morning put an oil filter wrench around the top (really nice fit) and wrapped duct tape around the top as to not damage the casting flipping over so sticky side was out for more grip. Pulled pretty hard then.....it moved an 1/8". Thats when I knew I had it licked. Back and forth for about 30 minutes and she came out. Patience patience patience
What I learned was first make sure the nose of the shaft it not seized in the block. If so free it up with PB Blaster (or similar) with heat.
If still stuck, then you know exactly where. (the aluminum housing is seized on the 2 1/4" wide rings that seat it in the block).
This all, start to finish took about a little less than 2 weeks.
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I had one like Rory's in a 67 Tbird back in 1977 when I was 16. It sat for ten or more years and I actually got it to fire up but decided the timing was off... no amount of effort would get it to move. I broke out the seal so I could spray down, then undid the intake and pivoted it around so I could spray where it was stuck in the block. Finally pulled the pan (all while in the TBird still) and tried to punch it up. Mangled the distributor completely and then sawed it off so I could get the intake off. Still could not budge it and the block got chucked and the car scrapped. Neighbor pair $500 for it with the intention of driving it!
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...i then tried tapping the starter WHILE pushing on the bar on the crank at the same time and it started spinning...
How did you not get hit by the breaker bar when the starter spun it?
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So, why didn't Ford use the more common design of dropping the ditzy freely and holding it down ala' the SBC & later Windsor/Cleveland designs, flat mating surfaces and a thin, flat gasket?
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The FE Power brain trust wasn't around for the engineers to ask.
Well most of them anyway...
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No Ford pushrod V8 uses a flat distributor gasket like a Chevy, and they all have the block machined for a close fit of the distributor body. I have had 351C distributors stuck in the block, just like a FE can. The SB Windsor, 351C, 351M-400, and 429-460s use a rubber O ring to seal the distributor to the block.
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I have been through this and for me it was self inflicted. The distributor wasn't fully seated when the intake was tightened then after timing was set and distributor was tight it all became one piece. I had to pull the intake to get it loose. I would guess this happens quite often and when it is self inflicted as in my case it only happened twice lol. I learned to fully seat the distributor before fully tightening the intake.
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No Ford pushrod V8 uses a flat distributor gasket like a Chevy, and they all have the block machined for a close fit of the distributor body. I have had 351C distributors stuck in the block, just like a FE can. The SB Windsor, 351C, 351M-400, and 429-460s use a rubber O ring to seal the distributor to the block.
True Rory and I knew that. I should have used the Fords with the rubber 0-ring as an example rather than the Chevy.
But, I still wonder why Ford's engineers used this system on the FE series. And yes, I've had a share of stuck ditzys on FE's and C's but not as bad as our poster detailed. Btw, I can't remember any GM make (Olds, Buick, Pontiac, etc.) I ever worked on that had a similar ditzy seal like the FE's...unless I've forgotten!