FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: zukinut on May 04, 2013, 09:37:56 AM
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I dint know if postig a link to anither site is allowed but Here is a link to the original thread on the fe forum. http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/message/1365864228/For+crying+out+loud+now+it+won%27t+run%2C+any+ideas
It from needing a lot of advance to backfiring etc.
Here is what I did yesterday.
Today before I did anything I pulled the vc's off and turned the engine over to see if I had a stuck valve, bad cam lobe, bent pushrods, etc. everything checked out ok. Then I tried starting it, it started but had to be "pedaled" if to much fuel was given it would die, the same with not enough. It had a small fuel leak at the primary shaft so I changed the carb to a rebuilt spare 4100, after changing both spacer gaskets. It ran about the same. Checked that distributor was in correctly at tdc. It was. It wouldn't run. It would start but wouldnt stay running on its own. I called Brent and he gave me a couple pointers. I dropped the dist in 20* advanced as he said and it lit off. I turned the dist cw and it finally stayed running. I adjusted the idle mixture screws, set the idle speed to 750 and started to check timing. It was aUt around 20 initial so I started to retard it and it died instantly. Advanced it and after several attempts got it to start. From that point on no matter what I did it would die if I did anything with the timing. Then it went back to not starting. Once it cooled down it would start with some effort. It pretty much won't start at all warm. It has not backfired since the different carb was installed. In fact,other than a slight hesitation off idle, it sounds much "stronger" than when it was running great before all this.
I' checked to see if the balancer had slipped but now don't believe that. Imade 2 reference marks on the spacer when I put the new timing chain in before I put the engine in the truck. They still line up when on compression stroke of #1.
Does anybody see anything I've missed? Could have something major happened coincidentally at the same time as the distributor change? Before all this nonsense this engine would smoothly idle as low as 500 rpm.
I can tell that this is a performance based forum, if y'all don't answer questions like these I completely understand. I also see that several people from the other forum are in here as well, I apologize for y'all having to read this again.
Thanks in advance
Will
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If I understood you correctly, all these problems are after a distributor change?
Is it possible you have crossed plug wires at the cap?
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Agreed! 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
I once fixed a a 3.0L Aerostar that had just returned from a "professional" mechanic. It barely ran, sputtering and bucking like crazy. No diagnostic codes or other obvious things (pre- OBD-II days). The problem turned out to be two plug wires reversed on the distributor cap.
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I didn't remove the plug wires from the cap when I did the change. Nonetheless ive checked, rechecked and checked again. 15426378. I know that number sequence as well as my ssn.
Only reason I changed the dist was that I wanted to send mine off to get recurved. I've since reinstalled the known good distributor.
The points condenser cap and button have all been changed from known good to New from napa.
The only weird thing that I've noticed is the excessive amount of blowby coming out of the pcv and breather.
Will
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Sure sounds like a firing order mixup. Did you swap out any other parts? I had a bad "new" coil with semi-similar symptoms a few weeks ago that cost me a few hours head scratching.
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Jus rechecked the plug wires. It's correct. The coil is an epoxy flame thrower 2. It's about 6 months old. The ground strap in the dist. If it was routed wrong would that cause an issue?
No other parts were changed.
Will
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Jus rechecked the plug wires. It's correct. The coil is an epoxy flame thrower 2. It's about 6 months old. The ground strap in the dist. If it was routed wrong would that cause an issue?
No other parts were changed.
Will
^^ That ground strap would do it indeed.
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How is it supposed to be routed? I jus routed it like I see it in the picture in the factory service manual.
Will
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How is it supposed to be routed? I jus routed it like I see it in the picture in the factory service manual.
Will
Not so much the routing.. the grounding. As log as there is no interference and the plate moves freely you are fine. Make sure to clean up the actual grounding points so they make good contact. A poor or intermittent ground can cause the issues your are describing. Have you tried putting the "known good" old points back on? I could not tell from your earlier pose.
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Yes, the known good points and condenser are back on.
I did some checking today and I have 12 volts at the coil and points, not 8 like I should have. Nothing has been tampered with so I don't know what is causing that. I also don't know if that is causing all this craziness.
Will
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Yes, the known good points and condenser are back on.
I did some checking today and I have 12 volts at the coil and points, not 8 like I should have. Nothing has been tampered with so I don't know what is causing that. I also don't know if that is causing all this craziness.
Will
I did not read through the thread you linked, (format is kinda wonky to me). Are you running the stock wiring with a ballast resistor or resistance wire? If yes, you should be getting full battery at 12v+ at start. Then after it should kick the V's down to whatever the ballast or resistance wire specs are. Have you tried running a jumper from the battery to the coil?
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Wiring is factory and unmolested. It has a resistor wire built in. But it's not dropping the voltage. Maybe theirin lies the problem?
Will
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May have been said in your posts somewhere but don't remember.....inspect the distributor cap for tracks across posts on the inside. It happens with just a little amount of moisture.
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No signs of tracks in either cap.
Will
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Other things to check:
Coil wired backwards
Distributor rotor incompatible with cap
Bad Duraspark distributor, happened to me several times, the box store rebuilt ones are suspect until proven otherwise.
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I had it running good before all this with the cap and rotor that I'm using now
Coil wiring hasn't been changed.
The only thing that could be causing the factory resistance wire to not be working would be the relay. At least that's how I'm reading the diagram.
When y'all say points burnt up, what exactly do you mean? I guess I'm asking how do I tell if they are burnt up.
Will
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When y'all say points burnt up, what exactly do you mean? I guess I'm asking how do I tell if they are burnt up.
Will
When someone says "the points burnt up" they are meaning the actual contact point s on the breaker bar.
The dist cam spinning would open and close the points and a small spark would be generated. Over time this would
burn the points up. You could also burn them with the key on and the exact situation where the sun, moon and earth all lined up,,
but the engine not running.
I have not run points for a really long time, and why would you?
A couple of tests.
Check the engine/chassis ground. It must be perfect.
Put the timing light on each wire and check for light.
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I Think its a bad coil trye a nother coil
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Would the coil cause it to not idle tho and die anytime the timing is retarded? The coil is a 4 month old flame thrower 2.
Nonetheless I'll try it and see what happens.
Will
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Jus rechecked the plug wires. It's correct. The coil is an epoxy flame thrower 2. It's about 6 months old. The ground strap in the dist. If it was routed wrong would that cause an issue?
No other parts were changed.
Will
Had similar problem, was due to the non grounding of the distributor plate. Take a multimeter and probe from the start of the ground strap to the finish point. You should have a reading (ohm only) at all times.
Graeme
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Spent a few hours looking over stuff and testing stuff. The truck failed the resistance wire test with flying colors. It passed all the other tests.
The truck starts fine. But dies immediately. Will 12 volts instantly kill points? I would venture to guess that it would at least run for a bit before they burnt up.
It's definitely at tdc. Is definitely getting fuel, and it's definitely getting enough spark to at least start. But why would it die immediately after it lights off and the key or remote starter is released.
Also when checking with a test light, If I put one end on the positive side of coil (with key on) shouldn't the test light light up if put the other end on the negative side of the battery?
Any ideas, I'm gettin close finally.
Thanks in advance
Will
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It sure sounds like your not getting power to the coil after the start. have you tried running a wire straight from the battery to the coil just for troubleshooting?
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Went out today to test the relay again and the ignition switch wire again. Even pulle the vc off AGAIN to check tdc for the 190th or so time.
Hit the remote start button and it lit off and ran but wouldn't idle, it ran at mid throttle for a bit then died. The coil was to hot to touch. Replaced it with a new one I bought "just in case" as someone on fe power had suggested. Hooked it up started it and do far so good.
It appears that the resistor wire died and took the coil with it. I thought the pertronix coils could take a full 12volts but I guess not. I guess I got lucky and it died in the driveway. Although it woulda been much easier to diagnose had it not died at the same time the distributor was changed.
I'm actually good at the kiss principle. But I guess I lost that when this happened because nothing has been simple in this truck build.
I head out of town for work later this evening but when I get back next weekend I'm gonna see if it starts and runs. And then I'll take it for a test drive.
Thanks again for all the help.
Will