FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => Non-FE Discussion Forum => Topic started by: ogasman on February 21, 2022, 07:31:26 PM
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Long story, I will try to make it short. I own nothing but Fords. Have about 15 Fords in the garage right now. Wanted a new Bronco. Put in a reservation and deposit in October 2020. I still have no vehicle. Really wanted a v8 in my new toy, but nothing available. I put in all the options for what I could. About $54,000. Heard they were doing a Raptor version this summer and tried to sign up. No way to do it. End of January got an email from Ford. It said if I was interested in a Raptor Bronco, click the link on the email. They would let me know by Feb 11th. Got a no love email from Ford on Feb 11th, said I couldn't get one. Called up Ford corporate to see what was going on. Basically it was a lottery email they sent out. Maybe gave one guy a chance to buy the Raptor Bronco at sticker price, but they let it slip that the dealers would still get Raptors to sell. Ford said they "should go to reservation holders" first. After a couple calls to my dealer, they lied constantly about what was going on, finally heard that they were going to charge about $20,000 over sticker for the Raptor Bronco. That means the sticker base $68,500 + $20,000. Sounds like a good deal to me! Really interesting right after Ford put out stories about cracking down on dealers up charging for specialty vehicles. I am dealing with Ricart Ford, in Columbus Ohio. I think they are still the largest Ford dealer in America. I also learned that 40% of the Broncos produced are sold to walk in buyers. No reservation necessary. I will never give Ford another dime. I am cancelling my reservation, will only buy aftermarket parts from here on out.
Paul
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Paul
Your frustration seems well justified. I will say that pretty much all of the car dealers are doing this same thing. Manufacturers keeping demand high by limiting production and the dealers taking advantage of the demand. You can read a post like yours on Forums from Kia to Porsche. Not saying it is right, it just is right now.
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Same deal with my daughter she got the reservation then they called her to come in and build one. I went with her and she got the Badlands model, by the time she was done it was 67 grand. A lot but she makes good money and is young and not married so if you were going to do it now would be the time. They told her up front that it would take 6 to 8 months. After about 7 months she got an email saying if she wanted one of her options the truck wouldn’t be done til the end of 2021. So she cancelled that option to get it quicker. About 6 months or the time she was supposed to get the truck she got an email saying if she wanted the top that she ordered the truck wouldn’t be done till the middle of 2023. At this point she went and got her 500 dollar deposit and went and ordered a Jeep. It’s a shame Ford is doing this. My daughter isn’t the only one that this is happening to. I talked to a guy that was driving one and he said they did the same thing to him and then they just called him one day and said come on down your bronco is in. Now this wasn’t a highly optioned truck maybe that’s why. Either way it’s not right. They are overwhelmed.
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It's same with Audi. They offered me an eye-opening $43K on my almost 4+ year old 2018 S5 coupe with 26K miles. I them asked what was the same car in 2022, no trade. Answer: about 20K more than I paid for the exact model in 2018. Ford Gm Kia and Porsche aren't the only ones who can't control (or don't want to) dealer pricing.
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Sounds like Ford(and others) just want to sell generic grocery getter, rental car versions of everything. Just to get them out in the market so you can see them driving around. String everyone along with stories of the "cool stuff" and then just set the delivery date out so far that you give up on it.
I can't say I've seen anything other then the mini version of the Bronco around here and with just base options(plain wheels, etc). I'm glad I have ZERO interest in any new cars. Nadda, nuthing.
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I have learned that if you order something now with Ford 360 option on it you are screwed because of the chip shortage (or something related to that) interrupting the supply of parts. I think that feature is standard on some of the high end products so that becomes a dilemma of sorts.
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Our 2022 Lariat F-350 has shipped. Ordered before the 12/8 price increases so we're paying what the price was when ordered. The dealer we're using refuses to bump pricing "We don't pull that bullshit on our customers". The truck has 360 cams and was held up after build about a 2 weeks or so for 5th wheel prep, probably because of the difficulty getting parts out of Canada.
We paid $1K over invoice on the 2021 F-150 at another dealer, which is why we ordered from someone else. The "other" dealer sold a F-250 at $4k over while we standing on the lot. The sale guy said one of the other sales people had bought a Gen 1 Bronco at around $70K and promptly flipped it for $200K. It's just a freakish market right now. I ordered a 2020 F-350 7.3L in December 2019, got it in Feb 2020. Paid $51,300. Sold it to the ordering dealer in Nov 2021 with 20K and a cracked windshield for $50K. Yes the Lariat will cost me over a years salary but might be the last time I get to do something like this, so why the hell not.
On a not unrelated front - everything is going nuts. Paid $180/drum for M1 Methanol last year - $250/drum this spring.
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I understand what you are saying, to an extent. Dealing with a car dealership is always horrible. That is why online places are booming. But this really goes back to Ford corporate. They had a press conference recently were they said how terrible price gouging was, and that there were going to be penalties to the dealership. I call major BS! Why are any of the dealerships getting Bronco's, and in my case the Raptor version if people who have reservations are bypassed. I have been standing in line for 1 1/2 years waiting for my vehicle, and the whole time Ford has been giving 40% of the Bronco's produced to the dealers to sell to walk in buyers. Why were Raptors allocated to the dealerships, when reservation holders were bypassed?
Ford Sucks
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I have a good friend that ordered a F250 XLT Diesel Crewcab in March of 2021 with an estimated delivery date of November 2021. Still no truck and they’re not telling him anything, at least that’s what he has told me. Sold his similar 2011 F250 to his son back in April so he’s not a happy camper.
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If I don't ever have to walk into a dealership again, I'll be happy. Since we're Left Coast tree-huggers, and my wife works for the company, we just got a Rivian R1T electric truck.
No dealers! It's all done direct, with out-the-door pricing. They even gave me high KBB retail for my trade. The truck was delivered to my door by a nice guy who gave us a full run-through before driving my old vehicle away. I needed a software update that couldn't be done over-the-air, so I drove up to a nearby service center. Painless! They give you a rental car or a $150 Uber voucher. Nobody's trying to sell you $100 windshield wiper blades or nitrogen for your tires...
Just kidding about the tree-hugger stuff. I'll always love the sounds and sensations of our dinosaur burners. Still, the Rivian is an absolute rocket! 835 HP and 905 ft-lbs to all four wheels. It'll smoke just about anything on the road. I guess the future won't be that bad.
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Dealing with Ford in general has been a pain in recent years. I bought a new RAM truck in 2018 because I went to 2 different Ford dealers and they absolutely wouldn't work with me at all on a new F150. Wouldn't even honor deals that were advertised online. I went straight from the last Ford dealer to the local Dodge dealer and they knocked off $11k immediately.
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Not Ford dealers in general, all brands - dealers will take out new cars and put miles on them so they can sell the cars as "used", bypassing the ire of Ford and GM corporate.
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The last time I walked into a Ford stealership was in December 1997 when I bought the last V8 "NASCAR" Thunderbird in stock.
Surprised it took you guys this long to learn.
We've had a few Toyota's in the meantime.
Mrs.-T wanted a Buick so I bought her one. She likes it and it's like driving your cushy couch down the highway. I guess we're the age.
We'll probably buy a used Toyota next time around.
My hot rods are all Fords, but I couldn't give a crap what my driver is as long as it has an auto trans, power steering and brakes, cold A/C, and a working radio.
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My local Ford dealer got a new Bronco 4 door soft top in for stock. 3 days later an out of state dealer offered him 5k over list and sent a transport company to pick it up. It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out. For now I'm just driving what I got.
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There is a LOT going on here......
1) Auto manufacturers have had some pretty serious parts attainment issues that have caused major delays in finishing vehicles to sell...some to the point of not being able to finish them period.
2) Demand has far outstripped supply, which will always create headaches for those trying to source something new.....Remember fist fights in toy stores, and ultra high resale prices, when trying to buy the ultra limited Cabbage Patch dolls for Christmas in the mid 1980's? Then, come around Feb of the next year, the stores were filled with all you could want....supply meeting demand stopped the insanity.
3) Why get on a Pre-Order, reservation, wait list for a production vehicle? Is it that important to be the first person in your neighborhood to have a new Bronco?....Okay I guess, but I don't see the need.
4) Webasto, the maker of the Bronco top, was unable to product the tops in enough volume to meet demand, then toss in the issues with very early fading and things got even worse.
Ford did contract Webasto to make the tops, so ultimately Ford is responsible, but Webasto...for many reasons, has been incapable of meeting demand.
5) The dealership lying to you is not a corporate Ford issue. While that dealership does represent Ford by selling Ford vehicles, you should not write off Ford vehicles because of a bad dealership....Try a different dealership supplying Ford vehicles.
6) When the price gouging happens you have choices to make.
Pay the Vig, or don't....but to pay it and then complain about it means you specifically incentivised them to gauge because you were willing to pay the gouge.
I strongly suggest you don't purchase when these price hikes are happening.
Be certain to tell them specifically why you will not purchase when the gouge is present to give them a chance to chage their ways.....Let the rest fall where it lies knowing you may have to find a different dealership to do business with from this point forward.
7) Lots of what gets discussed concerning these issues is little more than hearsay, gossip, and water cooler talk because those talking don't really know all the details.
If you don't know all the details at least take time to acknowledge that fact when trying to deal with your frustrations....It may help.
8) There are areas we are not supposed to venture into on this forum, and for Jay's sake I will not go there. Just understand this style of disruption is an intergral part of the plan and must occur before the next steps can be implemented.
9) I have a friend who fully paid for his full sized Bronco more than a year ago...Not on a wait list, not a reservation...he spent the money and they cashed the check so to speak....Yet he still has no Bronco.......Something big is going on concerning building and delivering Bronco's and I would bet it has to do with a few small steps that can not be finished.
10) Something to consider....2020/2021 vehicles were still being produced but many were unable to be finished for some reason. Where are those vehicles? They did sell all of them? It seems plausible we might see a special sale on brand new 2020/2021 vehicles finally completed and ready for sale in 2023-2024...or something like that.
Part of that special sale may include finished Broncos that are now a few years old.
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From a dealer publication, " the average buyer of a non-luxury car, paid $900 above MSRP, in January 2022."
Dealerships, depending on their specific floor plan, can charge whatever they want for a vehicle. Several court cases, have been found in favor of the dealership. The manufacturers can threaten , but that's about all.
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I left Ford a few years ago over my F-150 Crew Cab fiasco, but on the flip side, I have a friend who ordered a new 2021 F-150 Single cab short bed 5.0 with the Roush stage I engine package(650hp) and all the bells and whistles, posi-traction, gears, 10 speed automatic, AC, etc., through his local Ford dealership, and had it delivered to his home for under 40K. That truck scoots with the 650hp and 10 speed. The dealership is where the problems are manifesting themselves. I took my wife's Avalon back to the selling dealership for the back-up camera not working, and they quoted me $1400.00 to repair. I bought a complete aftermarket system for less than $150.00. $150.00 per hour to trouble shoot. That is bogus at best. Joe-JDC
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Every brand has it's issues, and many of them are at the dealer level. I have dozens of stories about newish (still under warranty) vehicles that I end up working on because a dealer is incapable of, unwilling to, or have some other issue. Many of these were still under warranty!
I stopped buying brand new vehicles awhile ago because of this. But then, I'm fine with old stuff. No one will let me order what I want anyway, I've tried to order a Mustang, Camaro and Corvette and no one will build one anymore. I want whatever the biggest HP offered, with nice interior but none of the touch screen GPS crap. So instead I just keep driving my 73 F250 and commuting in my 01 Ranger. Eventually I'll have to replace the Ranger, but it'll be used unless I find a decent dealer again which I doubt. And honestly, at 313k, the trucks in pretty good shape, I may just put an engine and and trans on it and keep going.
The 1 thing I'm sure of, is EVERY brand has dealers that do this kind of crap. You either have to go find a dealer for the brand you want to buy thats good, or find the good dealer in town and buy whatever brand they sell.
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OK, I will give you the long version.
Like most of you on here, I bleed Ford blue. I have pretty much driven nothing but Fords my whole life. I currently have 13 Fords in the garage. From projects, to fully finished nice vehicles. I retired last year. I ordered the Bronco as a retirement present to myself. I could care less about getting the newest, greatest, latest anything. I placed the order in October 2020. I had no idea this COVID thing would stretch on this long, and I am in the medical field. I also had no idea the economy would be actively crushed for a political agenda.
Ford corporate started this reservation system. It was their idea, but they wanted to have it all. Very greedy. Forty percent of all the Broncos produced to date bypassed the reservation system. They went directly to the dealers so they could have something to gouge the public with. These are facts reported by reliable news agencies, not internet gossip. I brought this up with my dealer. He suggested they were probably "base models that nobody wanted". Nobody from Ford or the dealership ever contacted me to see if I was interested in any of these "extra base models". Go on Facebook marketplace and see how many new, nicely optioned Broncos come up. They are listed by Ford dealerships that are asking 5 to 10 thousand over sticker. Amazing Ford can find the chips, tops and pieces for these, but not the Bronco I ordered.
I can afford to buy whatever I want. I wanted a hotrod version of the Bronco from day 1. Nothing was available. This summer Ford officially announced the Bronco Raptor. I tried to hop on it them, and order one. No way to do it. On January 27 Ford sent out an official email about the Raptor version. Click the email link if I was interested. It was pretty much of a lottery to see if you got a Raptor. On Feb 11th I was told I did not win the lottery. I called up Ford corporate and asked them what was up. The rejection email said I should just go ahead with my reservation of the regular Bronco. I have been waiting a year and a half, and Ford had sent me an email previously that said my Bronco would be built first quarter of 2022. I should just about be on the top of the reservation list by now. That is when the rep slipped up and told me that the dealers were getting allocations of the Raptor versions. The dealers are supposed to make the Raptors available to the reservation holders according to Ford corporate.
I hate getting screwed by car dealers. This place is great, and I have had the opportunity to use the X-plan pins because of the members on here. You cannot use an x-plan pin for any of the special Ford vehicles. That means if the dealer wants to gouge me over on the price of a Raptor, my only option is to not buy it. I reported the dealer to Ford corporate for price gouging today. Ricart Ford in Columbus Ohio is the dealer. I believe they are still the largest Ford dealership in America. Nothing will happen, despite what Ford top brass have said recently.
Paul
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I agree that individual dealers are usually the problem, but there's a lot going on right now. Dealers are desperate to get vehicles on the lot for all the reasons mentioned above. Ford needs to get whatever they can to dealers or else the dealers will be in a bad spot and may not recover. I don't think they care about 'orders', just getting vehicles to dealers to sell, which they do immediately. That's why most all dealers are so desperate for used vehicles at the moment.
GM is literally sending out vehicles with buttons that do not work; all because of the chip issues. Each chip is specific to all the options on any given vehicle, but in the name of getting cars out, and a severe lack of proper chips, they are installing ones that aren't correct, just to get them out the door. Whether they are actually telling people this, I don't know.
Having said that, our most local Ford dealer sucks. BAD!! Seen them rip people off WAY too many times. The sellers are dishonest, the mechanics incompetent, and the owners just don't give a damn about the customer. The most local GM dealer has been better, but still NOT what you expect when paying the price of a small house for a car.
I'm with Larry. You will never catch me on a dealer lot. I have zero interest in new vehicles, for all the reasons that people have stated above and then some.
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3X or 4X on not wanting a new car. I can't understand why there are computer chips sprinkled all over new cars like salt on french fries.
I blame the dealer and often individual salesmen on poor buying experiences across all products...cars, tires, house windows, etc. Though sometimes it is the mothership (Ford in this case) that can really pull a boner. When I find a place that takes care of me I latch on to them and they get all my business in what ever their business is.
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I have a good friend that ordered a F250 XLT Diesel Crewcab in March of 2021 with an estimated delivery date of November 2021. Still no truck and they’re not telling him anything, at least that’s what he has told me. Sold his similar 2011 F250 to his son back in April so he’s not a happy camper.
If he has the order number and a VIN he can at least track the status here
https://shop.ford.com/vehicleordertracking#/
Also - Ford Truck enthusiasts has lots of info on order tracking, delivery info, things holding up production, etc. Especially for Super Duty units.
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Dealerships being consolidated into large corporate firms owning multiple brands is part of the problem. They lose the hands on day to day customer oriented small business operation that a single owner generates.
The local Ford dealer was bought out 4 or 5 years ago. The parts are all at list price now. They really push the junk warranties and service packages hard. The employees looked stressed out. Its like a strange mixture of the 3 stooges, the Dilbert cartoon, and a Hitler comedy movie.
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When I read all the stuff about supply chain issue's two things come to mind 1 Henry must be doing boulder flips when they stoped building Ford and started building suppliers products and 2 American manufacturing help we sold the NYSE to the Germans globalization is bullshit.