FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: Yellow Truck on December 28, 2021, 02:33:39 PM
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I was recently asked about an FE build and it seems there are no quality aluminium heads available. I tend not to recommend Edelbrock as their product is a little dated, but they aren't available anyway. Survival seems to be hiding the link to the FeLony head, and is pushing Blue Thunder, and BBM says they have assembled heads ready to ship, but they also say they are out of stock.
It really seems a wasteland out there for anyone trying to do a build. While we are at it, what is the situation with rotating assemblies?
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I went though all that and I don't think there are any left.
I went ahead and bought a pair of used edelbrock's from gregwill 16 and will be ready to assemble them as soon as my valves come in.
Oh there is one gouger on ebay who has a set of speedmasters for $3800.00.
I would use stock low risers before I would buy from him.
Good luck in your search.
Greg
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I think Blair still has heads available.
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Edelbrock cast a bit over a hundred of my heads before they went sideways. They were unable to machine them as they previously had done, and I had to find a local machining source and generate a program for turning them into heads starting from truly raw castings. Took me three efforts to find somebody who had both the desire and the capability to take the project on. The place that is doing the work is a large scale OEM style facility, where some old contacts were kind enough to help me out after the prior folks were unable to handle the task. Turns out that this volume is too large for a little guy operation but actually too small for a big outfit. Figures....
I finally got a sample from my machining center about a week ago and have assembled and test fit it, and given them the "go ahead" on production machining. They ran a couple of them in production mode yesterday to determine cycle time, so we can finalize costs. I expect costs and pricing to go up a bit, but hopefully not too much. First couple production heads were taking about an hour and a half per head on the machine from raw to completed. I am kind of amazed how fast they go - these machines can cut some serious metal. Once done we need to install seats, guides, and heli-coils by hand.
I am almost scared to put a delivery date out there yet since this has taken so long. I owe a half dozen sets to some very patient folks, and need a few sets for in house builds. Seems realistic to say that the remainder could start becoming available in the middle/end of January. Fingers crossed...
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Given the sketchiness of the entire industry right now, I'm surprised any smaller build shop would be willing to sell sets of heads (not counting orders already taken). Builds are your guys bread and butter, and once product is gone, except for using factory iron, builds are impossible. I feel bad for all the small business guys doing this stuff right now. I hope you all can make it work through these times.
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Barry, very glad you were able to land some castings even if the process after that has been fraught with challenges. I remember when I did my build Edelbrock was not performing for you and you couldn't supply heads. Is it really true that there are no foundries left in the US that can produce heads?
CJ - that is what I told them. Better to ask for a build than a head.
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anyone approached Mercruiser about heads? didn't they do the Zr-1 stuff for the Vettes?
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I have to wonder, who does the aluminum head castings for AFR, Brodix, Dart etc.And does Holley, Weiand, and Offenhauser cast their own intake manifolds? How about smaller brands like the old B&A Track Boss, Blue Thunder, or my Parker Funnel Web on my SBF?
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I have to wonder, who does the aluminum head castings for AFR, Brodix, Dart etc.And does Holley, Weiand, and Offenhauser cast their own intake manifolds? How about smaller brands like the old B&A Track Boss, Blue Thunder, or my Parker Funnel Web on my SBF?
AFR is in the same boat right now, so I'm not sure who does their stuff. I don't use Brodix so not sure on them. Dart is pretty much non-existent right now as far as blocks and heads go.
The Parker Funnel Web is not made by Parker anymore, it's cast by a Chinese company. They bought the rights to the Windsor Funnel Web from Terry Parker many years ago. He still does the Cleveland Funnel Web down in Aussie Land.
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There are plenty of foundries in the US that cast heads. I get my heads cast at a local foundry, I met another foundry at PRI that does some work for TrickFlow, Dart gets their heads cast at a foundry in Wisconsin, last I checked Buddy Bar is still around and they cast heads and intakes, etc. etc. etc. The problem is that the foundry business is a huge mess right now. First Covid hit, demand for casting products dried up, and all the manufacturers that buy from the foundries cancelled their orders. (The same thing happened in automotive electronics by the way, as many of us know). Then, demand bounced back far faster than anyone expected, but with the $600 per week stimulus check package, for many foundry employees it made more sense to stay home and collect that, rather than go back to work. So, the foundries were short staffed, with a big glut of orders. The manufacturers that provide raw materials, like aluminum ingots for casting, were in the same boat, so there was a shortage of casting materials. Lead times stretched way out as a result, and the biggest customers are always going to get their parts first, leaving smaller markets like automotive aftermarket to wait. Even now, the employees are not returning to the foundries very fast, because hourly rates have gone up so much that better jobs are available at the same wage. After all, a foundry is a tough place to work; it is hot, loud, and dirty, with sand everywhere. So if the foundry I use is any indicator, the foundry business in general is still understaffed, and they have to pay more to retain their employees.
Things are beginning to loosen up now, at least at the foundry that I use, and they may be more or less back to normal in 6 months or so. But I still have product there that I ordered at the beginning of March, that has not been delivered. I've gone to the extreme of looking for other foundries that can cast my parts, but all the ones I've talked to locally are not even accepting new customers; they are concentrating on delivering to the customers that they have.
So, lead times are still extended, and prices will be going up due to higher wages and higher raw materials costs. Pretty much all we can do is deal with it...
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Small business is still getting crushed. It has been two years. Everyone keeps talking about the light at the end of the tunnel. That might be the train's headlight. Manufacturing is a complex system. Making pencils seems pretty simple. But you have to start with cutting down trees and how that works before you get to gluing lead between the wood. It is best to be optimistic, but patience might be the better virtue for where we now are. Another year. Maybe two before we have some idea of which way is up.
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Foundry price for various grade's of aluminum have risen more than 60% this year. That's just the raw material, labor costs, price for electric, and natural gas have moved considerably higher as well. A foundry that I have communication with, said they basically can't guarantee any prices. They are being forced to honor some contacts with large customers, but are losing their shirt.
The forecast from material suppliers is to expect the prices to continue their rise throughout 2022.
That being said, what kind of reasonable business model can one construct in this Environment ??
I keep telling people, " if you really need that part, look for a used one"! Everything is backordered .
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I was lucky enough just short of a year ago to have the FE builder (a member here) find me a pair of ported Edel. heads that flow just over 300.
427 CO with a 428 crank.
I'm now saving my 2 sets of C4AE-H low risers for future builds not needing the HP.
Never thought I'd find aluminum heads that I could afford. I'll be only street driving my 427 so won't need the extra horsepower.
Richard >>> FERoadster
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Try and get creative in how you search for products. A couple months ago I was able to get a set of Trick Flow heads when everyone else said they were on backorder. I found a smaller supplier who had them in stock at the same price as the big retailers with no tax. I did check again and the are now out of stock.
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For those who may be interested, I just posted a pair of Stage 2 Edelbrocks in the for sale section.
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>He still does the Cleveland Funnel Web down in Aussie Land.
I went on a hunt last half of 2021 for a 9.2 deck intake to fit my "clevor" AFD head build. CHI had one (1) in the US and I bought it damn quick, calling Aussie Land from the US in the middle of the CST night. At the time, I did not know that Terry was still making the 351C Funnelwebs. That did explain why his web site was still up LOL. Still, I never turned up any in the US.
The tentative ship date (hah) of my 351W dragster oil pan from Milodon is 1/31/22 - 14 months after placing the order.
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Seems even normally readily available parts, like AFR SB Ford heads are in short supply, and I have been trying to buy mew MT slicks for the Fairmont for a few months no, with no luck.
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Seems there are a few for sale and in stock on ebay currently. There was nothing a few days ago except those Pro Comp/Speedmasters the guy has listed for ($3500!!) lol.
The ones I saw were Edelbrocks at Jegs and TFS at sparktecmotors.
If you absolutely can't wait for one of our community vendors to have them in stock, there you go.