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FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: Royce on October 21, 2021, 01:14:20 PM

Title: The dreaded clunk
Post by: Royce on October 21, 2021, 01:14:20 PM
Of the oil pump drive shaft falling into the pan.. Last idiot in this engine did not install the retainer washer and just as the distributor was to clear the manifold it dropped out... Anyone have any clever ways to retrieve it without removing the pan or front cover?  Leave it at the bottom of the pan?
Title: Re: The dreaded clunk
Post by: My427stang on October 21, 2021, 01:46:09 PM
I know you aren't asking this, but as much as it stinks, the only "right" answer in to drop the pan

I have never fished one in from the top, but all I can picture is after all the work to get it out, or acceptance to leave it, you end up one tooth off and "clunk" now you have two in there LOL


Title: Re: The dreaded clunk
Post by: Royce on October 21, 2021, 02:57:14 PM
I hear ya.....  I figured I would pull the water pump and front cover and get at it... Less time on my back under the car...  I am temped to leave it.. This car does not get driven much and the chance of the shaft leaping off the bottom into the crank seems small..  I think I will drain the oil and see if it is visible.. If that's a no go. then I would glue the new shaft into the distributor drive to install it...
Title: Re: The dreaded clunk
Post by: Rory428 on October 21, 2021, 04:36:51 PM
I would advise against using "glue" to hold the oil pump drive shaft. If a chunk of dried glue finds it`s way into the oil pump, you will have bigger issues than worrying about an extra drive shaft rolling around the bottom of the oil pan.
Title: Re: The dreaded clunk
Post by: jayb on October 21, 2021, 04:53:23 PM
Royce, if you are sure it is all the way in the pan, and not hanging up on the oil pump somehow, leave it in the pan.  Just get yourself a big magnet to attach to the bottom of the pan so that it grabs the oil pump drive shaft.  I know it's kind of a hack, but it works.  Been there, done that in my younger days... :o
Title: Re: The dreaded clunk
Post by: Royce on October 21, 2021, 05:24:45 PM
Hey  I am all about the hack   LOL... In the pan she goes..  Great idea on the magnet  Going to use a dab of RTV to "glue" the shaft into the distributor drive.  I was hoping the shaft was hung up on the oil pump but no luck there.
Title: Re: The dreaded clunk
Post by: jayb on October 21, 2021, 07:35:27 PM
Hey  I am all about the hack   LOL...

It's all that work on the dyno  ;D
Title: Re: The dreaded clunk
Post by: 427Fastback on October 21, 2021, 08:57:58 PM
Had it happen a few times....i put grease in the distributer and push the shaft in..
Title: Re: The dreaded clunk
Post by: BruceS on October 22, 2021, 08:16:23 AM
In my younger days, the first time I pulled the distributor on my 390 Mustang the shaft came loose and fell.  The car was almost new at the time so I have to guess that Ford didn't install a retainer washer in my engine either.  Luckily my buddy who was helping me, his Father owned an auto parts store so we were able to go and get a replacement since it was at night (as usual).  Left the original shaft in the pan never to be seen or heard from again!   
Title: Re: The dreaded clunk
Post by: durkzz8 on October 22, 2021, 09:59:31 AM
Had a 69 F100 with a 360 and I dropped one and left it in the pan. Was the stock front sump pan. After a couple years in there it decided to somehow hit the crank and come out the side of the oil pan when I was on the ramp putting the boat in the lake. I heard a bang and oil pressure started dropping. Found half of it still in the pan mangled up.
Title: Re: The dreaded clunk
Post by: Falcon67 on October 22, 2021, 01:02:29 PM
Royce, if you are sure it is all the way in the pan, and not hanging up on the oil pump somehow, leave it in the pan.  Just get yourself a big magnet to attach to the bottom of the pan so that it grabs the oil pump drive shaft.  I know it's kind of a hack, but it works.  Been there, done that in my younger days... :o

Find an old hard drive or two and pull them apart.  The magnets inside to guide the read head(s) are extremely powerful.  My have to trim the brackets.  Most are strong enough to require a screwdriver to pry off a flat metal surface.
Title: Re: The dreaded clunk
Post by: shady on October 22, 2021, 02:00:43 PM
Old microwave oven magnetron tubes have great magnets in them.
Title: Re: The dreaded clunk
Post by: wayne on October 22, 2021, 03:23:48 PM
Time to go to habor freight and get one of their small tellascoping magnets its small enough  to go down from the top i think.
Title: Re: The dreaded clunk
Post by: Royce on October 22, 2021, 06:32:19 PM
Ol Henry must be watching over the hack mechanics.. Drained the oil, went to parts store and bought a light on a long flexible stalk  Got down in there and could see it.. I was able to wiggle a telescoping magnet past the cast distributor seat and grabbed the tip and GENTLY pulled it out.  Miracle ....  A piece of tape on the shaft to make it fit tight in the distributor and it drops in no problem. Must be living right this week...

Set the timing and went for a test drive

 
Title: Re: The dreaded clunk
Post by: cammerfe on October 22, 2021, 10:21:38 PM
Ol Henry must be watching over the hack mechanics.. Drained the oil, went to parts store and bought a light on a long flexible stalk  Got down in there and could see it.. I was able to wiggle a telescoping magnet past the cast distributor seat and grabbed the tip and GENTLY pulled it out.  Miracle ....  A piece of tape on the shaft to make it fit tight in the distributor and it drops in no problem. Must be living right this week...

Set the timing and went for a test drive

 

Use a SERIOUS degreasing spray on the pump shaft end and the socket in the end of the diz 'hex'. Put one drop of red Locktite in the hex and put the driveshaft in. One drop isn't enough cause overflow. (You'll have removed the washer, of course.)

Now you can pull the diz innumerable times without fear of dropping the !@#$#@! thing into the pan and not fear having 'glue' loose in the oiling system either.

Did this on Brother Lon's '67 Mustang/427 TP. :)

KS
Title: Re: The dreaded clunk
Post by: WConley on October 23, 2021, 12:36:08 AM
^^^^  This!!  Good advice from Ken  :D
Title: Re: The dreaded clunk
Post by: wayne on October 23, 2021, 10:41:11 AM
I like the locktite idea
Title: Re: The dreaded clunk
Post by: katink on October 25, 2021, 11:22:49 AM
I had that problem, the retainer wouldn't hold the shaft in the block because it was poorly made and the shaft was stuck rather well in the end of the distributor.  So after one dropped shaft and a couple of 'Oh @#$%&!' moments and the resulting hacks to get the shaft out successfully I found a different shaft.  Milodon makes a fat shaft that will not pass through the hole in the block when pulling the distributor.  No help to you at this point in time, sorry.  But the stamped keeper is a failure point.  The fat shaft is not.  As far as magnets, I tried to move a shaft around in the rear sump pan with a number of big magnets after I had the engine out and the pan in hand.  Did not budge.  Your results may vary.
Title: Re: The dreaded clunk
Post by: Blueoval77 on October 25, 2021, 05:39:20 PM
CMon now Royce , you arent being completely honest here I think. Now I have done this on several occasions over the years and its never just a clunk !! Its always a "Clunk" followed by a string of words that just come out all on their own.......   8) 8) 8) 

The main issue with leaving them is that "In my experience" they dont fall all the way. They get stuck in the vertical position and the crank dispatches them when you crank it the first time. No , not the end of the world for sure but on a good engine its not a road you want to go down. Ive never had it happen on an FE but had it happen plenty of times on small blocks where people didnt put the clip back on or broke a shaft and installed the new one top down...
Title: Re: The dreaded clunk
Post by: cammerfe on October 25, 2021, 09:49:58 PM
Another possibility is to go to an engine management system that uses the COP approach. Adding a dry sump makes it possible to do away with the diz altogether, and the internal pump also. Voila!!! You'll never drop another hex oil pump driveshaft. Put a cover on the diz hole after making sure to deal with the potential for an internal oil leak. ;) ;D

KS
Title: Re: The dreaded clunk
Post by: Royce on October 26, 2021, 07:24:23 PM
Well Blue you caught me on that one.  A very long string of expletives including the letters M F and C. It's all good now though.
Title: Re: The dreaded clunk
Post by: TimeWarpF100 on October 28, 2021, 10:25:27 PM
Of the oil pump drive shaft falling into the pan.. Last idiot in this engine did not install the retainer washer and just as the distributor was to clear the manifold it dropped out... Anyone have any clever ways to retrieve it without removing the pan or front cover?  Leave it at the bottom of the pan?

What pan are you using? I have pulled plenty out thru the drain plug hole.
Title: Re: The dreaded clunk
Post by: SAcobra427 on October 31, 2021, 07:06:56 PM
Not sure if this will work for you, depends on how the shaft is setting in there but I had this happen to me once and I easily retrieved the shaft by slipping a drinking straw from like Mc Donalds or Burger King down over it and pulled back out.