FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: fajr22 on July 04, 2021, 11:21:36 AM
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This is a 427 Fairlane that was sold out of Mississippi in the mid 90’s. I bought the car recently and am looking for any information regarding this car. It appears as though the car was raced heavily to the point it was altered from a 66 to a 67 for racing or marketing purposes. Does anyone in the Mississippi area know the car or it’s history. The car was originally Aqua and raced in Wimbledon white, then painted its current color. YES ITS AN R CODE car was built in Atlanta early October 65 production, currently has 500 interior and denotes this on the door tag. Thank you.
Unfortunately I can’t upload the photos :(
Pm me and I can email them or text me 207-664-8699
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If the car is truly a 66 R code, then the original color was not Aqua. The original color of all 66 R code Fairlanes were Wimbledon White.
You might try the "66 67 427 fairlane/67 427 comet registry" on Facebook to see if anyone may have info or be able to help out.
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If its a 66 R code Fairlane its one of 56 or 57 and as stated above would have been white.Definitely worth researching.
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If the car is truly a 66 R code, then the original color was not Aqua. The original color of all 66 R code Fairlanes were Wimbledon White.
You might try the "66 67 427 fairlane/67 427 comet registry" on Facebook to see if anyone may have info or be able to help out.
Unfortunately this isn’t always true. To the common knowledge person of Fairlane they were all white, but there were cars pulled from the line for marketing purposes and NOT counted amongst the original 57 built. I’m not here to debate it, I’m here to find the cars history to answer the where and who’s of its past. Thanks for commenting.
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/214578672222051/
Perhaps some info may be found here, not sure
Ricky.
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/214578672222051/
Perhaps some info may be found here, not sure
Ricky.
That’s my car in the first post
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I remember the original Hot Rod or Car Craft article (can't remember which, but I do have the magazine) containing the "new" 427 Fairlane. It's a pretty extensive article, and the pictures are in black and white, but I do know the car was distinctly a dark color. Yes, it most likely was not a regular production car, but just shows that there were other versions produced.
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Well based on the photos on Facebook my first question is whether your car has the holes in the shock towers for the upper exhaust manifold bolts.
Over the years I've personally tried to purchase 8 of the 57 66 R-codes, all of them have been white, manual disc brakes, black bench seat interiors radio delete with heater.
I can see the bracket for the power brake booster on your car.
With out any additional info regarding the vin it is going to to be difficult to confirm what your car is.
I currently have a Vintage Burgundy 67 R-code 500LX Fairlane I have had for 20 years.
Rob
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I remember the original Hot Rod or Car Craft article (can't remember which, but I do have the magazine) containing the "new" 427 Fairlane. It's a pretty extensive article, and the pictures are in black and white, but I do know the car was distinctly a dark color. Yes, it most likely was not a regular production car, but just shows that there were other versions produced.
EXACTLY!! We also know of the Ed Terry car that started off as a prototype and was raced extensively. I’ve seen the article as well, and that’s the area that I believe this car falls into.
As far as my Vin, I’ve given it to a few people to help with the car that also believe the car has a legitimate unique history. Passing it around isn’t doing anything more than VIN collecting. The point of the post is to find the previous owner and history of the car. That’s exactly why I’m searching for information regionally. The car likely is known to someone in the Mississippi area or southern racing community
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I can see the bracket for the power brake booster on your car.
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That may have been done to use those Weiand pentroof covers. I have no opinion on this car being what is described.
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I remember the original Hot Rod or Car Craft article (can't remember which, but I do have the magazine) containing the "new" 427 Fairlane. It's a pretty extensive article, and the pictures are in black and white, but I do know the car was distinctly a dark color. Yes, it most likely was not a regular production car, but just shows that there were other versions produced.
EXACTLY!! We also know of the Ed Terry car that started off as a prototype and was raced extensively. I’ve seen the article as well, and that’s the area that I believe this car falls into.
As far as my Vin, I’ve given it to a few people to help with the car that also believe the car has a legitimate unique history. Passing it around isn’t doing anything more than VIN collecting. The point of the post is to find the previous owner and history of the car. That’s exactly why I’m searching for information regionally. The car likely is known to someone in the Mississippi area or southern racing community
Don’t forget that the Ed Terry car was actually a Z code, not an R. You’ll need some extraordinary documentation to prove that you have a car that is outside of the official number of 66 R codes Ford is known to have built.
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Contact Don Antilla up Southbury, Connecticut and get a Marti report.
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Contact Don Antilla up Southbury, Connecticut and get a Marti report.
There are no Marti reports for a ‘66, Marti reports start with the 1967 model year.
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Sorry, I forgot about that.
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Contact Don Antilla up Southbury, Connecticut and get a Marti report.
I have spoken with Don, he’s a Facebook friend.
BH107... Um that’s why I’m here trying to track down the cars history ??? You’re pointing out the obvious. The point is like the July 66 Hot Rod article these cars do exist and ARE out there. That’s the entire point of trying to line out what the cars part was in history. I’m not making any false claims or assumptions, just the facts of the car and it’s existence. I find it strange that everyone wants to take their jab at it or discrediting a car they know ZERO about, rather than maybe ask around. The car IS AN R CODE with Ford Vins and tag. Like it or not.
427wedge.... Even if there was a Marti, it doesn’t mean it would give the cars history. Beyond production. Which if it was pulled, it likely could’ve left different than the Marti says.
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Although Marti does not have all the information for 1966, he may have some. It would be worthwhile to contact him. He may have who ordered the car and who it was sold to. I'd think that information would be very helpful to trying to learn the cars history.
As for people being skeptical cannot blame them. Are a lot of fakes and frauds out there.
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If it’s an R code vin on the tag, it’s clearly not a fake. Nobody just makes tags. Especially as old as this car is and all the accurate information on it. Most people just want to be skeptical because it’s not theirs. Like I said before, I’m not here claiming the car is anything more than it is. The information I’ve provided matches the door tag. That’s why it’s going to be a car that’s history is only known by the previous or original owner.
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If it’s an R code vin on the tag, it’s clearly not a fake. Nobody just makes tags. Especially as old as this car is and all the accurate information on it. Most people just want to skeptical because it’s not there’s. Like I said before, I’m not here claiming the car is anything more than it is. The information I’ve provided match the door tag. That’s why it’s going to be a car that’s history is only known by the previous or original owner.
Yes they do make door tags (https://www.ebay.com/itm/121814389580), and yes they are faked all the time. You can get a door tag made with any codes put on it that you want. Were you not aware of that? You can even get "original" style rivets to make them look authentic.
There are quite a few guys here who have been racing Fords since the early '60s, and some even for Ford corporate. Throwing stones at people without knowing who they are is not going to get you anywhere.
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Well why don’t they contribute to the topic then?? I don’t believe I asked anyone anything beyond that. If they have information, give it up. Throwing stones at the car because you do t own it, isn’t answering the question.
;D ;D ;D You really think I don’t know in modern years they made tags??? Nobody was faking these cars in the 60’s & 70’s unless it was the manufacturer.. There was no money in it and certainly nobody making bootleg tags for them. They were worthless used up junk. Never ceases to amaze me how some forums are more interested in bashing someone’s car rather than answering the question at hand. If you don’t have any history on the car, then just keep scrolling. I don’t need Google information. All of us have that already..
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I think what people are trying to point out is that when Ford was building prototypes it wasn't unusual for them to use a chassis intended for a different powertrain hence they had a different engine code on the VIN tag.The fact that your car has the R code in the VIN implies that it was built farther along in the process possibly after normal production began.The build date in Oct 65 you referenced was clearly after the start of normal 66 production,and I've never seen the 66 427 Fairlanes referenced as 66 1/2's which leads me to believe that they started production of them at or near the beginning of 66 production.
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As far as VIN tags being the only source of the VIN that simply isn't the case,the VIN including the 5th digit engine code is stamped into the body panels in multiple places.Depending on the model it can be stamped on the edge of the inner apron,or on the core support for unibody cars and on the firewall/cowl area on fullsized cars.Even the 62 and earlier Galaxies had it stamped into the top of the frame rail.
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Thank you, exactly the point. He has been on the defense about this car without any answering any specific questions.
Without its origin, time slips, residual lettering under a layer of paint it is going to be difficult and or next to impossible to trace its history.
1) If it is one of factory Drag council team cars it would not be unusual that a modified pre-production version would be supplied by Ford to r-code specs by the various Ford vendors (DTS, Holman Moody, Ford X Garage ).
I have one on the 11 factory 62 lightweight Galaxies re bodied to a 63. It is not a R code but a G code and doesn't fall into a production category but is still a 63 lightweight.
2) Is reason there was 57 66's is because Ford Engine Foundry could only supply 57 427's to the Atlanta plant by the required due date. His is not hearsay but Ford interoffice document's I've seen.
3) Press cars usually because of the leed time would be pre production vehicles and not matching engine codes or transmission combinations (example, automatic transmission in in the Phil Bonner 427 Fairlane test).
4) It was not unusual back in the day for race cars to be updated with the next year sheet metal so I wouldn't be concerned about that.
I asked specific questions regarding the holes in the shock towers and contacting Don Antilla without a answer.
I am not trying to slam this car nor am I jealous but in all honesty from the FB pictures and the current separate thread, I haven't seen anything that would convince me that it is a 66 production R-code Fairlane.
Moving on to race history it would be helpful to have a time frame and specific location.
I get it, these cars can be a size able investment and you want to make sure what you buy is a legit vehicle
If I am wrong in my opinion I will gladly apologize in this forum as to any error in my opinion.
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How about a picture of the door tag?
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How about a picture of the door tag?
A while back, some poor fellow made a post about a Fairlane he bought. He posted the info on the door tag, which matched the title, but the car didn't seem to reflect the door tag. I told him that on the unibody 66-67 Fairlanes, the VIN was on the driver side top of the core support. Guess what? The core support VIN and the door tag VIN didn't match. I had to inform the poor soul that all he bought and titled was a door.
Door tags are meaningless. You have to get the registration VINs.
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Contact Don Antilla up Southbury, Connecticut and get a Marti report.
I have spoken with Don, he’s a Facebook friend.
BH107... Um that’s why I’m here trying to track down the cars history ??? You’re pointing out the obvious. The point is like the July 66 Hot Rod article these cars do exist and ARE out there. That’s the entire point of trying to line out what the cars part was in history. I’m not making any false claims or assumptions, just the facts of the car and it’s existence. I find it strange that everyone wants to take their jab at it or discrediting a car they know ZERO about, rather than maybe ask around. The car IS AN R CODE with Ford Vins and tag. Like it or not.
427wedge.... Even if there was a Marti, it doesn’t mean it would give the cars history. Beyond production. Which if it was pulled, it likely could’ve left different than the Marti says.
Actually I have talked to several people about your car and there are many problems including that your door tag says it’s a 67, while several of the codes on the tag were 66 only. What about it calling out a C4 transmission which we obviously know Ford never put behind a 427 or any other FE for that matter? Or if it was a prototype or advertising car why does it have a standard Memphis DSO?
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B107, there’s several answers to that in which are being sorted out. The people in the know believe the car was pulled from the line and restamped by ford then sent to Memphis DSO to be sold to the public after they were done with it. Since the history of the car lines up with that. Thanks though for being a posting my cars information online, if I wanted it here, I would’ve posted it. The information has zero to do with what I asked about IE the cars owner history. Clearly the information of the cars history requires me to search elsewhere. Have a good day.
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If you don’t have any history on the car, then just keep scrolling. I don’t need Google information. All of us have that already..
This is a forum, open to members to comment, so feel free to ignore my posts if you want.
Just an observation to guys that drag raced these cars, but wouldn't the rubber isolators on the rear springs be one of the first things to eliminate for racing? Seems a bit odd that they are still in place. And I'd consider it a minor miracle if in fact that is "the original date coded engine", given the assumption that it was raced for several years. 427's weren't exactly known for being bulletproof in the drag racing world. Does anyone have an idea of how many 427 factory race cars still retain their original engine? I can only think of a couple examples that have come to light.
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Frjr22 you sure get defensive quick. Hate to tell you but all everyone here is trying to do is help and pointing out the inconsistencies of your car which is not out of line. Let me say I could care less about your car. To say anyone on here is jealous is just insulting. . That said is a Cougar started life as a 67 was used as a prototype has several vin stamps on it. Prototypes are supposed to get destroyed. The few that get out to the public usually do so thru a Ford employee or factory race team. Never heard of a car being put back on the line and sold as normal. Good luck with it. Going keep scrolling now....
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I assume you have exhausted efforts to track it down through DMV records.. Just saying that non standard cars with out of the ordinary back stories probably require 2 times the provenance than a regular production 427 car.. Reason being there have been a lot of cars and owners who have stories that are a bit offbeat and can't be validated.. As long as you are not offering the car for sale and are satisfied it is what it is, then who cares...
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So this car doesn't have the shock tower holes for the upper exhaust manifold bolts ??
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From the engine compartment shot I don't see it and I've asked that question 2 times now and no response.
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Sorry, I have been unable to post pictures of the shock towers from my R-code to show the upper access holes that are on all 66-67 R and W code Fairlanes and Comets.
You can see that access hole on the drivers side tower on the Ed Terry car.
Since you have dismissed all of us as Google experts why not go back and post your question in the FB
66 67 427 fairlane/67 427 comet registry.
The only thing so far that sounds possibly be an r-code is the Spec casing. But then you could have found out about that in a Google search.
At this point I am going to file this with the 1968 W code Mustang.
Good luck with your research.
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B107, there’s several answers to that in which are being sorted out. The people in the know believe the car was pulled from the line and restamped by ford then sent to Memphis DSO to be sold to the public after they were done with it. Since the history of the car lines up with that. Thanks though for being a posting my cars information online, if I wanted it here, I would’ve posted it. The information has zero to do with what I asked about IE the cars owner history. Clearly the information of the cars history requires me to search elsewhere. Have a good day.
In an attempt to get history like you are asking for I checked with some guys who are not the form type... one already knew about the car and that is where I got the information. Others that are "in the know" just said its likely fake. Another pointed out that these types of test cars would not have been done in Atlanta, and in October of 65 there were certain 427 Fairlane specific parts that would not have been released yet let alone sent to Atlanta to be fit to a production line car. These were also not given R code vins, just like the Ed Terry car.
Sure we know that test cars were built, used in advertising and even loaned out for PR, but then destroyed. That is why none of the SOHC 427 Galaxies or others exist...
This kind of smells like a John Rummel story....
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That’s kind of weird since I’ve spent a fairly extensive time with 2 of them on the phone that said exactly the opposite... The fact you stated the cars were built on the production line kind of shows your limited knowledge. The cars (even the 57) were pulled and as assembled as parts became available. Another source noted for a fact in the 60’s ford would pull cars from the assembly line and assemble them as my car has been, Not being R codes (like Ed Terry’s) Z car. Some of these cars do exist and they’re hard to document but were built and are out there. Let me refer you to July 1966 HotRod magazine... So to call it a Rummel story is pretty tasteless. My car isn’t restored, isn’t being sold and isn’t all doctored up with cock n Bull stories. Hard to say likely a fake when you have zero history, knowledge or even inspected the car. One of the unique features on the car stood out as a very unique feature in which helped lean towards the car being a legitimate race car from the day. It’s pretty obvious my car was important enough to call someone and try to debate or discredit it.. So that usually means it peaked your interest enough to make a phone call to Cory... I mean everyone pretty much knows in 67 there was no 6 code for a transmission, but in 68 it was correct for a 4 speed... I’d have thought you would’ve popped on the 2:80 rear ratio...but hey that’s just me.. :D That in itself is humorous because I simply came here to see if the car was known in a certain area. Must’ve ruffled some feathers, otherwise you wouldn’t have bothered Ben... ;D ;D ;D
Oh and as all of us know... especially ME, all test cars aren’t destroyed... I mean I do own 1 and the Fairlane GTX was one of those cars... So there goes that ironclad theory
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No worries Fred, you are free to believe what you want. Didn’t need to talk to Cory to get the info I posted, and without some documentation there will always be doubts about the legitimacy of this car.
Carry on, and let me know when the next lobster dinner is.
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Thank you, exactly the point. He has been on the defense about this car without any answering any specific questions.
Without its origin, time slips, residual lettering under a layer of paint it is going to be difficult and or next to impossible to trace its history.
1) If a it is factory Drag console team cars it would not be unusually that a modified pre-production version would be supplied by Ford to r-code specs by the various Ford vendors (DTS, Holman Moody, Ford X Garage ).
I have one on the 11 factory 62 lightweight Galaxies re bodied to a 63. It is not a R code but a G code and doesn't fall into a production category but is still a 63 lightweight.
2) Is reason there was 57 66's is because Ford Engine Foundry could only supply 57 427's to the Atlanta plant by the required due date. His is not hearsay but Ford interoffice document's I've seen.
3) Press cars usually because of the leed time would be pre production vehicles and not matching engine codes or transmission combinations (example, automatic transmission in in the Phil Bonner 427 Fairlane test).
4) It was not unusual back in the day for race cars to be updated with the next year sheet metal so I wouldn't be concerned about that.
I asked specific questions regarding the holes in the shock towers and contacting Don Antilla without a answer.
I am not trying to slam this car nor am I jealous but in all honesty from the FB pictures and the current separate thread, I haven't seen anything that would convince me that it is a 66 production R-code Fairlane.
Moving on to race history it would be helpful to have a time frame and specific location.
I get it, these cars can be a size able investment and you want to make sure what you buy is a legit vehicle
If I am wrong in my opinion I will gladly apologize in this forum as to any error in my opinion.
As to regards to #4 a former co worker once owned and raced one of the 57 and related to me how the they updated it to 67 appearance and updated to the tunnel port power in late 1967 and they raced it in that configuration until switching to a Maverick and Pro Stock in late 69 early 1970.
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That’s kind of weird since I’ve spent a fairly extensive time with 2 of them on the phone that said exactly the opposite... The fact you stated the cars were built on the production line kind of shows your limited knowledge. The cars (even the 57) were pulled and as assembled as parts became available. Another source noted for a fact in the 60’s ford would pull cars from the assembly line and assemble them as my car has been, Not being R codes (like Ed Terry’s) Z car. Some of these cars do exist and they’re hard to document but were built and are out there. Let me refer you to July 1966 HotRod magazine... So to call it a Rummel story is pretty tasteless. My car isn’t restored, isn’t being sold and isn’t all doctored up with cock n Bull stories. Hard to say likely a fake when you have zero history, knowledge or even inspected the car. One of the unique features on the car stood out as a very unique feature in which helped lean towards the car being a legitimate race car from the day. It’s pretty obvious my car was important enough to call someone and try to debate or discredit it.. So that usually means it peaked your interest enough to make a phone call to Cory... I mean everyone pretty much knows in 67 there was no 6 code for a transmission, but in 68 it was correct for a 4 speed... I’d have thought you would’ve popped on the 2:80 rear ratio...but hey that’s just me.. :D That in itself is humorous because I simply came here to see if the car was known in a certain area. Must’ve ruffled some feathers, otherwise you wouldn’t have bothered Ben... ;D ;D ;D
Oh and as all of us know... especially ME, all test cars aren’t destroyed... I mean I do own 1 and the Fairlane GTX was one of those cars... So there goes that ironclad theory
A chassis can't be "pulled" from the assembly line unless it has been built there first,if it is assembled on some special jig then it doesn't need to be "pulled" from the assembly line.
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Also while I don't dispute that this car may be an original 427 I would point out that the prescence of single piston caliper front disc brakes proves that this car has been modified to some extent over the years since they weren't introduced for another 2 years.
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Having worked in Ford Engineering, every car that goes down the assembly line has an order and a destination before the build starts. That order could be special, for an engineering test vehicle or the race program, or it could be for a retail / fleet customer. The Atlanta '66 R-code Fairlanes were all ordered ahead of time with a special build configuration for the 427 engine. This is well documented. Special builds are also usually run together or at least in batches, since assembly operators have to be trained.
It would be extremely unlikely that a "normal" optioned build car would be "pulled" from production and then extensively modified. The special cars were built as much as possible for their final purpose. If a final special part wasn't available at the plant, a minimum spec production version of the part would be put on so you could safely drive the car onto the transporter. This minimized waste.
Now at the time it was pretty common for dealers to swap in performance engines. One of my old friends had a '67 GT-500 that had a documented dealer-installed 427 high riser. As to the R-code door tag, that's been discussed above. I'd look at the chassis stamps as a more reliable telltale.
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"As to regards to #4 a former co worker once owned and raced one of the 57 and related to me how the they updated it to 67 appearance and updated to the tunnel port power in late 1967 and they raced it in that configuration until switching to a Maverick and Pro Stock in late 69 early 1970."
Would that be Bill Ireland or Sam Auxier jr.?
My first tunnel port motor came from Bill.
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Unfortunately I never had the pleasure of working with either of those guys,though my cyclone did pass thru Bill Irelands shop at some time prior to my ownership.This guys name was Schultz and he was partnered with another guy who's name escapes me they raced together for years from the mid 60's to the early 70's and then had some sort of falling out. He made it sound like while they did OK in SS for independents they weren't very successful in Pro Stock.
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Fred ,
There are several indicators from the pictures that your car was drag raced. The flat front shock plates are there for added shock travel. The dual rear shocks and electric fuel pump also indicate drag racing heritage. "History" searches are often very difficult. As a drag racer of 55 years I find it interesting that the car doesn't have "some" form of traction bar on it. Fairlanes and Mustangs were notorious for wheel hop. "Bolt on" traction bars certainly could have been removed over time.
WConley's "inside" information is spot on. "Builds" were scheduled on the assembly line so workers could be trained about the unique options AND so that the required parts were in place at the various stations. The line HAD to keep going. It the case of the special built '66s , they would have been built as complete as possible ( less the glass hood and hood pins) and sent to another area ( off line) to receive the hood and modifications. The cars did not go "back on the line as some envision. I was not aware of any "flat hood" '66 427 Fairlanes built.
Another note is that "prototype" cars retained by specific departments "most" often recieved brass "asset tags" for tracking and accounting purposes. Lists of these vehicles ( for various years) have been copied and are "out there " in some people's hands. I have a couple myself. They include specific vin numbers. BTW VIN numbers were RARELY changed ( by Ford) as the test vehicles were NOT meant to be sold , but as we all know "some" did get out. I do know of two specific Mustangs that had their vins changed "by Ford , at Ford" to comply with SCCA rules. This was NOT the "norm".
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To throw another iron into the fire, I watched, over a several week period, as a '69 Mustang was delivered, brand new, to the Exec Garage in the southwest corner of T&C Livonia, stripped down, and turned into a full-on Trans-AM SCCA Boss. The body work was done (the cut-in scoops in the rear quarters were not used in the Boss cars, so they were filled.)
If I remember correctly, an engine came in on a pallet with markings showing it came from Bud Moore.
It came in as a brand new car. It went out as a brand new car, as well. But it went away as a fully done-up road racer, and it was all done on FMoCo property by Ford employees. I have no idea what the vin tags said. As I remember, that car was destroyed, and the driver killed in an SCCA race of the 'round-the-houses' sort. It happened on Wide Track Drive in Pontiac a few months after the car was finished.
And we haven't even mentioned the facility over on the edge of Melvindale where they did the years-ahead planning of assembly lines. They had a large store of cars there that had been modified to be used in the planning. If you knew who to talk to, it was entirely possible to get a 'dollar' car there to be turned into some sort of competition vehicle. I personally participated in two such activities---showing up with a roll-back truck in one instance and a pick-up and trailer the other time.
All sorts of things were possible if you knew who to ask.
KS
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You are probably talking about the Black and gold Smokey Yunick car which was an M code 351W. The two prototype T/A cars were R code 428s. One ( blue) to Shelby and the other ( red , white , and black) to Bud. I have all of the vins.
Randy