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FE Power Forums => FE Technical Forum => Topic started by: philminotti on May 16, 2021, 03:08:47 PM

Title: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: philminotti on May 16, 2021, 03:08:47 PM
Or is that an old wives tale?  If so, is it months, years, or decades?

Phil
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: GerryP on May 16, 2021, 03:19:03 PM
Theoretically true.  If you consider that molecules not at absolute zero are free to move around and that seemingly solid objects are always fluid, then a crank can sag.  But you have entropy too, so it's possible that you could lay it down one day and come back the next day and it's a dust pile of Fe.

I always store things as safely as possible.  I've never seen a crank fall off the floor or fall over while laying on its side.
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: philminotti on May 16, 2021, 03:24:52 PM
I hear you on the safety issue... It's currently laying on my bench...but my wife and children have been known to repurpose my tools from time to time, and I would absolutely lose my shit if I walked into my shop to see it fallen over if I had it standing up!
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: blykins on May 16, 2021, 03:29:31 PM
You can put back in its box, it will be safe there.   It's ok to store them on their side.   Think of how many crankshafts are stored in their boxes with only the nose and hindend supported.
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: ch3no2 on May 16, 2021, 04:47:34 PM
I hang'em.
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: wowens on May 16, 2021, 05:12:45 PM
Could machine shops standing cranks on end due to lack of storage space and not because cranks bend be the daddy of this idea ?
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: GerryP on May 16, 2021, 05:19:54 PM
Yes.  You can go to outer space vertical.  Horzontal, just to the end of your garage.
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: Stangman on May 16, 2021, 07:58:25 PM
If you live on Long Island and get your crank cut at any shop it goes to one guy. He says he does about 80 percent of the cranks from the engine shops. We were talking about this subject and he said that laying a crank on its side will never bend or warp a crank.
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: cjshaker on May 16, 2021, 08:15:39 PM
I hang'em.

Careful, they might stretch doing that!  ;D
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: 475fetoploader on May 16, 2021, 11:59:07 PM
After I install an engine in a car, I always store the car vertically, if I don’t intend to drive it for an extended period.
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: chilly460 on May 17, 2021, 06:35:15 AM
This one always seemed silly to me.  If you stand it on end, are the bending forces also still not at work, trying to pinch the counterweights together?  The crank is more supported on it's side than standing, the way I see it. 
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: My427stang on May 17, 2021, 06:46:21 AM
This one always seemed silly to me.  If you stand it on end, are the bending forces also still not at work, trying to pinch the counterweights together?  The crank is more supported on it's side than standing, the way I see it.

If you live on Long Island and get your crank cut at any shop it goes to one guy. He says he does about 80 percent of the cranks from the engine shops. We were talking about this subject and he said that laying a crank on its side will never bend or warp a crank.

I agree completely, silly to think it cannot support it's own weight, especially cast iron

After I install an engine in a car, I always store the car vertically, if I don’t intend to drive it for an extended period.

Yes.  You can go to outer space vertical.  Horzontal, just to the end of your garage.

 8) Got a kick out of both of these
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: Rory428 on May 17, 2021, 07:19:59 AM
Considering all new cranks that I have seen, come in boxes, with the crank horizontal, I would doubt it is a real issue. I CAN say, that if you have a bunch of FE cranks standing on the floor, upright, and one tips over, causing a Domino effect, chances are very good  that some damage will occur!
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: My427stang on May 17, 2021, 07:33:31 AM
Considering all new cranks that I have seen, come in boxes, with the crank horizontal, I would doubt it is a real issue. I CAN say, that if you have a bunch of FE cranks standing on the floor, upright, and one tips over, causing a Domino effect, chances are very good  that some damage will occur!

It usually happens when you are trying to get the 3rd one back and in a hurry :)
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: Barry_R on May 17, 2021, 07:43:11 AM
Yes.  You can go to outer space vertical.  Horizontal, just to the end of your garage.

You actually go to outer space horizontally - the vertical part of the trip is comparatively short

As for the crankshafts - Doug's "stretch" comment is pretty awesome...
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: Dumpling on May 17, 2021, 11:03:05 AM
I like to bury my cranks in the lawn. The dirt conforms to its shape and supports it evenly along its length. The grass seems to like the iron in the soil as well.

Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: Rory428 on May 17, 2021, 11:58:21 AM
Considering all new cranks that I have seen, come in boxes, with the crank horizontal, I would doubt it is a real issue. I CAN say, that if you have a bunch of FE cranks standing on the floor, upright, and one tips over, causing a Domino effect, chances are very good  that some damage will occur!

It usually happens when you are trying to get the 3rd one back and in a hurry :)

And usually when you are wearing running shoes or sandals!
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: wayne on May 17, 2021, 02:10:03 PM
Just had one done that was on it side for 35 years it was ok Harts in ohio is super if you need a shop.
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: C8OZ on May 17, 2021, 03:22:06 PM
Imagine how noodly your cam must be when you go for the last journal holding it up with just the bolt.  :'(
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: Lowrider on May 18, 2021, 07:45:35 AM
While we're talking myths, I heard years ago that storing a block without the main caps installed would cause the block to "stretch" at the main journals. I put them back on to keep from losing/misplacing them. Nothing more frustrating than to see an ad for a block for sale without the main caps. I can see a set of main caps for sale from a "lunched" block but not the other way around.
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: gt350hr on May 18, 2021, 09:34:14 AM
   I just talked to Scat and they laughed. NO problem at ALL to lay a crank down. Callies already told me the same thing.
   Randy
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: C6AE on May 18, 2021, 01:59:40 PM
I like to bury my cranks in the lawn. The dirt conforms to its shape and supports it evenly along its length. The grass seems to like the iron in the soil as well.

I thought that only worked with 3-3/4" flathead cranks in the garden.
They next owner is going to have to buy new tines for his tiller...
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: RustyCrankshaft on May 18, 2021, 11:20:57 PM
I've never personally seen a crank out of a typical gas V8 have an issue from being laid on down for storage, but I have seen a diesel crank have an issue. Big weight difference tho.
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: Stangman on May 19, 2021, 12:40:45 PM
with a name like rusty crankshaft you should know all about it. ;)
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: RustyCrankshaft on May 19, 2021, 11:07:46 PM
Well, after you bury the crank in the back yard for storage and all.......


If you don't want to do that much digging they also make great mailbox posts...the neighbors Honda doesn't even budge them!

The cranks we had bend (it was repeatable, over the years I worked at that outfit I saw 3 do it) were out of big Cummins V engines. Had them straightened and cleaned up and went back together. They're heavy enough that when they turn them they support the center of the cranks with 2 air cylinders rigged from the ceiling to keep them from flexing and causing the journal to taper.
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: Dumpling on May 20, 2021, 06:55:35 PM
Not storage so much as laying to rest....
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: cjshaker on May 21, 2021, 06:42:08 AM
Not storage so much as laying to rest....

LOL
Scrap is really high right now ($240-$290 ton, depending, in my area), so you might want to consider digging them up and making a small fortune. :)
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: JC-427Stroker on May 23, 2021, 11:13:29 AM
After I install an engine in a car, I always store the car vertically, if I don’t intend to drive it for an extended period.

Where's the "Like" button ?
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: TomP on May 23, 2021, 07:57:10 PM
I have seen them hanging from a rack like wind chimes. Mine all stand up but that is a space issue. I have twelve of them standing up. Anyone need five 3 1/2" stroke 352/360 cranks?
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: gregaba on May 24, 2021, 10:44:07 AM
I think this rumor goes back to the 40's and 50's when there were a lot of stright 8 and 6 engines.
I remember going to dad's machine shop with him and they had all the cranks hanging in racks.
They all so had all the heads stacked on end.
Greg
Title: Re: Does a crankshaft actually sag if stored on it's side...
Post by: Dr Mabuse on June 05, 2021, 05:55:25 PM
I always rotate, on a regular schedule, any crank I store horizontally.

Better safe than sorry.

Same for camshafts.

I have three engines stored on engine stands - I also rotate them on a regular schedule. It prevents the weight of the block from allowing the bell-housing area to deform and sag.