1970 f250 390 build

[nick c]

Rather than starting a dozen threads related to this project I'll just start one and ask questions as I go along.

Picked up a 1970 F250 360 C6 Dana 60/4.10 gear truck last month.  Stock aside from aftermarket wheels.  Goal is to build a fun street truck that can be a shop truck for projects.  Don't envision towing or hauling heavy loads often.  I like the idea of a powerplant that is comparable or better to the new F150's with the 5.0 or ecoboost, while being 800lbs lighter.   

I found a local guy with a pile of 390 stuff from his highboy build that he had converted to a 460.  Got a package deal that included essentially two 390's and a bunch of parts. 

The first 390 is a complete motor that reportedly had two collapsed lifters when he pulled it:

~4.070 bore when measured with calipers
Lemans rods, 10:1 compression, unknown make for pistons
small custom truck hydraulic roller cam 208/213 @ 0.050 112 lobe separation, .520 lift
Howards cams (Morel?) Hydraulic lifters
C8-AEH heads 2.06(?) intake valves, 1.56 exhaust
Edelbrock rpm intake
factory adjustable rockers
performance distributers duraspark with bronze gear
ARP hardware

The other is a virgin 390 short block with 4.050 bore
included was a set of unused/rebuilt D2 heads

Among the other parts:
Summit RTR distributer
Hedman longtubes

I'm considering four different ways to go about the build: 

Rebuild as 390/iron heads CJ valves with different/new custom roller cam
390/custom cam/TFS or other aluminum head
445/iron heads
445/TFS heads

Questions to follow.

[nick c]

First question:

The engine reportedly had two collapsed lifters.  It has Howards cams hydraulic roller lifters installed.  These are rebranded Morels, right?  Is there a examination that would verify a lifter problem?

While examining the motor I found three of the factory adjustable rocker arms loose, and two of the corresponding pushrods were 'burned' towards the cup area.  Is this indicative of bad lifters?

See attached picture of the pushrods.

[frnkeore]

The lifters have nothing to do with the push rod cup. Lack of oil is the only thing that can cause that.

[nick c]

Interesting.  How would the lack of pushrod oiling lead to loose rockers?

[nick c]

I discovered that the pin in one of the roller lifters had worked it's way loose and the wheel is chewed up.  The corresponding lobe on the cam has a pretty good ridge in it.  One of the burned pushrods corresponds to that lifter, not sure if they're related.     

I'm not used to looking at cylinder heads.  They're C8-AEH castings.  They were advertised as being worked over and have hardened seats, bowl work, with matched cc chambers.  I can see that they have double springs (or helper springs?), one piece retainers, viton valve seals.  The bowls appear to have work done, there's casting flash in the intake runners.  The valves are  ~2.058" intake and 1.056"ex., 0.368" diameter. 

Is there a good resource for FE heads with pictures and so forth to review in order to better evaluate what I'm looking at?             

[1968galaxie]

Interesting.  How would the lack of pushrod oiling lead to loose rockers?

The push rods are not oiled up/through the lifters on a 390FE.
The oiling starts from the oil passage in the deck of the block, then up through the heads, up to the shaft, and then to each rocker arm - then to the cup in the push rod.
Perhaps someone blocked off the oiling to the rocker shaft?
 

[nick c]

Interesting.  How would the lack of pushrod oiling lead to loose rockers?

The push rods are not oiled up/through the lifters on a 390FE.
The oiling starts from the oil passage in the deck of the block, then up through the heads, up to the shaft, and then to each rocker arm - then to the cup in the push rod.
Perhaps someone blocked off the oiling to the rocker shaft?

The heads have carb jets in the rocker arm oiling passage.  I tried removing one, and only managed to push it further in during the process.. will need to figure out how to remove.

I didn't note the orientation of the shafts when removing them from the cylinder heads, but the rockers themselves don't show signs of oil starvation.  That is, the bushings and oil grooves don't appear to show abnormal wear.  The shafts appear to be good as well.

I saw a video recently about gunk getting into the shafts, perhaps there is build up inside them? 

[frnkeore]

I discovered that the pin in one of the roller lifters had worked it's way loose and the wheel is chewed up.  The corresponding lobe on the cam has a pretty good ridge in it.  One of the burned pushrods corresponds to that lifter, not sure if they're related.     

I'm not used to looking at cylinder heads.  They're C8-AEH castings.  They were advertised as being worked over and have hardened seats, bowl work, with matched cc chambers.  I can see that they have double springs (or helper springs?), one piece retainers, viton valve seals.  The bowls appear to have work done, there's casting flash in the intake runners.  The valves are  ~2.058" intake and 1.056"ex., 0.368" diameter.

Is there a good resource for FE heads with pictures and so forth to review in order to better evaluate what I'm looking at?             

None of the dimensions, that I high lighted in bold, are FE dimensions. Valves should be ~2.03 x 1.56, with ~.371 to .372 stems

I think we need pictures of your heads and rocker arm assemblys. The RA shaft grooves go to the bottom or the rockers can't get full oil.

You should be able to blow the restricter out with air, from the bottom of the head.

[nick c]

None of the dimensions, that I high lighted in bold, are FE dimensions. Valves should be ~2.03 x 1.56, with ~.371 to .372 stems

I think we need pictures of your heads and rocker arm assemblys. The RA shaft grooves go to the bottom or the rockers can't get full oil.

You should be able to blow the restricter out with air, from the bottom of the head.

I miss typed the exhaust valve size; it is 1.56"
I measured the intake valve a number of times, it is 2.058".  The stock valve is certainly 2.03", the other set of heads I received have the 2.03's in them.   I don't know why or where these 2.05's came from. 

I've already removed and disassembled the rocker arms/shafts unfortunately.

 

[nick c]

Say you wanted to end up with an aluminum headed 445 stroker, but didn't have the funds to handy to do it in one step.  Would your two step approach be:

A. Heads/custom cam now; add 445 bottom end later

or

B. 445 bottom end first and choke it out with OE heads until future replacement with TFS/BBM heads.

 

[blykins]

Say you wanted to end up with an aluminum headed 445 stroker, but didn't have the funds to handy to do it in one step.  Would your two step approach be:

A. Heads/custom cam now; add 445 bottom end later

or

B. 445 bottom end first and choke it out with OE heads until future replacement with TFS/BBM heads.

 

I'd do the bottom end first.  You can swap heads in the vehicle.  You could always cam for the heads you plan to switch to. 

[TJ]

Fwiw, I believe the path to happiness is a well built stroked short block...especially in a pickup that won't be drag raced.  Performance minded heads are just icing for the cake.

I don't think anyone has mentioned it but unless the plan is to pull the dizzy somewhat regularly, I'd throw away the bronze gear.  They're more for niche applications.

[Urgefor]

I'd do the bottom end first.  You can swap heads in the vehicle.  You could always cam for the heads you plan to switch to.

This answers a question I've been wondering about for awhile now regarding using a cam spec'd for a different set of heads that will be the "end game" for the engine.  Thanks for throwing that out there Brent.

[blykins]

I'd do the bottom end first.  You can swap heads in the vehicle.  You could always cam for the heads you plan to switch to.

This answers a question I've been wondering about for awhile now regarding using a cam spec'd for a different set of heads that will be the "end game" for the engine.  Thanks for throwing that out there Brent.

Yep, the cylinder head is a huge variable in what cam specs are needed.  I've done this many times for guys who build a short block, use factory heads, but plan on adding good heads down the road.  You end up with a small cam for the factory headed engine, but a cam that's just right for what's coming down the road. 

[nick c]

Did you mean cam on the big side for the factory headed engine?