Author Topic: Time for new rockers, which should buy?  (Read 1824 times)

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drdano

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Time for new rockers, which should buy?
« on: January 12, 2020, 05:46:34 PM »
I've hated the blue Comp (Dove) 1046 narrow rockers I have since I put them on my 428.  Just endless trouble with these: stock adjusters are garbage, machining bits and pieces in the oil holes, just junk in general.  I've been measuring up some pushrods and noticed some excessive clearance between the rocker and shaft on a few rockers.  I pulled the rocker off and it was toast, worn down so bad the oil groove was gone on the bottom half.  So, these rockers are finally going in the garbage.  The shafts look ok, but I noticed especially on the areas under where the worn rockers were they have some light scuffs that I can catch a nail on. Those will be replaced as well.

Ok, so my stands, end supports and spacers are all good.  I will need rockers and shafts.  What rockers and shafts should I use that will have an OEM rocker width and thus fit where the blue garbage rockers were?  160lbs seat and 385lbs open on hydraulic roller cam. 

cattleFEeder

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Re: Time for new rockers, which should buy?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2020, 06:19:02 PM »
Remember, RPM is your friend

CaptCobrajet

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Re: Time for new rockers, which should buy?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2020, 06:56:53 PM »
You may have trouble finding shafts to fit those Dove end supports.  The length is slightly different.  Depending on the lift, your spring load is well suited for a good set of OE non adjustable rockers.  I have been doing that for years.  Measure all 16, add for peload, and bolt them down.  Nothing to fail.  No bearings and no roller tips.  I generally don't do it for anything over .575 lift.   Not too many "daily drivers" have more lift, or at least they shouldn't in my opinion, so the OE non adjustable rockers are super reliable.
Blair Patrick

drdano

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Re: Time for new rockers, which should buy?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2020, 07:10:28 PM »
@CattleFEeder, yes, Brent's non-adjustables are sitting in my mind as a possibility for sure and I'm more than happy to support a forum vendor.

@Blair.  I should have been a tad more descriptive with the cam, it's a custom grind from Brent.  Intake Lobe - 3317, Exhaust Lobe - 3317, LSA - 110, ICL - 104.  242/242 @ .050", 284/284 @ advertised, .633"/.633" lift with Bullet (morel) roller lifters.  The shafts are HD FPP ones, stock diameter.  Stand kit and end supports is Angelucci billet from BarryR.  Probably outside of OEM non-adjustable rocker duty, right?

I'm unsure if I've ever owned an FE without adjustable rockers, from what I've seen on the forum though, it could be a new direction to try.

My427stang

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Re: Time for new rockers, which should buy?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2020, 07:19:08 PM »
I have used three sets, and #4 more going together now. Three of them are at approx .630 lift like yours, very easy on parts and you will save on pushrod cost to boot.  For a hyd roller or hyd Flat I wouldn’t use anything else.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 07:30:05 PM by My427stang »
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

CaptCobrajet

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Re: Time for new rockers, which should buy?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2020, 07:30:13 PM »
I think that is more lift than I would use the OE rocker on.  The pad won't contact the valve as well at the higher lifts.  That non adjustable Harland Sharp rocker that Brent uses would cure the issue, but while it is bushed, it is still aluminum.  I like steel for extended street duty.  I reckon it depends on how many miles you plan to use it.  I've used aluminum non-adjustables in some cases.   Steel is really the deal....... I've got something cooking on that, but not sure how long it will be before they are available.
Blair Patrick

blykins

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Re: Time for new rockers, which should buy?
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2020, 06:51:09 AM »
I've had a lot of luck over the years with the factory non-adjustable rockers.   I have them in a lot of engines, all at around 150-160 seat and 375-400 open pressure, with lift hovering around the .600" lift mark.  Dennis Towle has them in the 540 hp 390 that I built for him.  That engine has almost .600" of lift, 170/400 lbs of spring pressure, and he absolutely beats on that engine.  It's been cruised, it's been street raced, and it's had innumerable passes put on it at the strip, launching at 5000-5500 and shifting at 6500.  Obviously, the rockers work well, even with their flaws.  However, with the higher rpm hydraulic rollers that I've been doing (6500-7500 rpm), I didn't feel comfortable with the factory parts (lack of structural integrity with high spring loads, wider footprint on the stem, etc.), which led me to look at some aftermarket pieces.  I approached both T&D and Manton about making some steel non-adjustable rockers for me, but after some careful consideration, I decided that the budget just wouldn't be there for most guys unless it was a true race piece, and a true race piece deserves more than a traditional shaft mounted rocker system.   

I agree that less moving parts can possibly provide for a better scenario, and in the case of an FE rocker, removing the adjuster from the back end of the rocker helps in a lot of aspects.  Not only does it remove a failure point, but it reduces weight off the rear of the rocker arm.  A bushed fulcrum can also add longevity, although the LS guys are all putting 100k miles on the upgraded needle bearing trunnion rockers.  The roller tip isn't really a big deal to me as I can't remember the last time I've seen a roller tipped rocker fail, with the exception of a set of Procomp roller rockers.   But there's a difference between a set of rockers made by Playskool and true, quality parts.   With the FE heads all going to at least an 11/32" valve stem diameter, not to mention 5/16" and 7mm, we're losing real estate to center a shoe tip on.   I have a couple of guys who put 5000-6000 miles per year on their FE with T&D streets, so I have faith in well-made products. 

Obviously I'm biased, but I think the most important selling points of my rockers are that they will oil in either direction (through the head or through the pushrod), you get a little more rocker ratio than with a factory non-adjustable piece, and they don't use any funky pushrod ends.   Buying a set of custom pushrods with a 3/8" ball on one end and a 5/16" ball on the other can get expensive but a 5/16" or 3/8" diameter, ball/ball pushrod is available from almost every pushrod manufacturer for about $100-125 in .025" increments.  When I set up a set of non-adjustables, I will measure each valve for its own pushrod, as there will always be a tolerance stack between valve dimensions, valve jobs, etc.  I then add .050-.060" of preload in most cases with standard travel lifters and order the pushrods to fit. 

Brent Lykins
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My427stang

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Re: Time for new rockers, which should buy?
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2020, 08:40:17 AM »
I will add two points for those that haven't done it or are thinking of it.

1 - In three sets, the worst I have ended up with is 3 pushrod sizes with a total spread of .050 between them, and that was a valve job on a set of CJ iron from Maryland that I wasn't very happy with.  That set had a decent valve job and nice machine work, but not much care for consistency.  Generally, I end up with 2 lengths .025 apart, and the majority are the same if the valve job is good.  Of course it all depends on tolerance stack but mostly where the stems end up.  Additionally, it takes some time to measure all 16, but it is "set and forget"

2 - Although as both Blair and Brent have mentioned and I agree, "more moving parts are more moving parts", but especially in a hydraulic cammed engine, roller or flat, the lack of lash is pretty easy on parts.  Not that I worry about roller tips anyway, my own car has 13 years on a set of Ersons, but hydraulic cams of any type should be even easier on them, not to mention the benefit of less scrub on the valve tip
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Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch